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I have difficulties finding the correct notes when practicing a piece from paper. Is it a good habit always to sing the notes in your head along - do-la-si-do-... etc? That way - if you sang the melody line a few times with notes, and have memorized them - you have an idea of which note is going to come.
Never done this, but is it something you do?
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I have difficulties finding the correct notes when practicing a piece from paper. Is it a good habit always to sing the notes in your head along - do-la-si-do-... etc? That way - if you sang the melody line a few times with notes, and have memorized them - you have an idea of which note is going to come.
Never done this, but is it something you do? What do you mean by .... "finding the correct notes" ? Are you searching for them ? If you are using the "paper" you should be playing what the paper indicates you should play.... not searching around for them. If you do not know what notes the paper is indicating .... then you need to learn to identify the notes better. Singing the notes will help in playing without paying attention to the paper. Then you will be playing from memory. It is best to learn to read music and use the paper while playing. Good Luck
Don
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I'm not a teacher but IMHO the sheet music is just an aid to get you into the music. If memorizing first is better for you, just do that. Just make sure to check frequently if your memory dropped some things (like accents, figurations, messed up tempi etc)
For me, I don't memorize using "do re mi". I just know the melody. And yes, it helps. But this method usually does not work for chords, inner voices that are not so melodic and have weird jumps, etc.
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To answer your question: No. It's a terrible habit. I think even the old system of using acronyms (Every good boy deserves fudge) is a very unfortunate practice that impedes learning. Naming the note in your head before you play it is a wasted intermediate step. The best approach, imo, is to learn a series of landmark notes and learn how to play intervals around them based on what's on the score.
Do you have a teacher? or are you trying to teach yourself? If the latter then I suspect an even bigger problem is the way that you are going about learning. Learning to read music is a very challenging and difficult skill. You need to learn it systematically starting with very simple pieces and then building complexity as you learn. If you're constantly struggling with what you're trying to play, it usually indicates that you are trying to play things well beyond your current level. This can lead to all sorts of bad habits that will be very difficult to overcome later.
If working with a teacher is not a practical option for you, then I suggest getting some method book and working through it step by step (alfred's adult all in one series and the fundamental keys book are two inexpensive methods that I like). If you are working with a teacher, I would be having this conversation with them to see what feedback and suggestions they can give you.
Warm Regards.
P.S. Memorizing is a separate skill from reading/sight reading. It's worth developing the ability to memorize songs so that you always have some repertoire you can play. But memorizing songs will not help you with reading, just the opposite in fact.
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I have difficulties finding the correct notes when practicing a piece from paper. Could you describe this with more detail? There are several ways to interpret it.
Last edited by Groove On; 11/24/17 01:10 PM.
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What do you mean by .... "finding the correct notes" ? If you practice, sometimes your finger taps a wrong key. Would it be easier to get the correct one if you sang the note in your head? If you sang in your head "la" maybe it is easier to tap excactly the A key. Does someone do this?
Last edited by johan d; 11/24/17 01:20 PM.
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Would it be easier to get the correct one if you sang the note in your head? If you sang in your head "la" maybe it is easier to tap excactly the A key. Does someone do this? My skills in the auditory area are not so conscious. I've had some success sometimes 'picturing' a piano key layout in my head when playing something tricky. It's not so much a visual image as a 'relief map' in a way--something that can help me picture the pattern of tall and short keys and thus inform my physiology so it can plan the movement. Not a panacea by any means--just something to try to pull out of the bag of tricks when struggling with something.
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What do you mean by .... "finding the correct notes" ? If you practice, sometimes your finger taps a wrong key. Would it be easier to get the correct one if you sang the note in your head? Nope. I do not think it would make any difference. You just have to learn which key goes with which note on the paper and press the right key with confidence. Good Luck
Don
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Think about reading a book. You don't have to say the letters of the words you're reading in order to understand the word. You learned to read text gradually - first the alphabet, then groups of 3-4 letters for simple words.
You should find that it works the same way for reading music. You start with simple pieces, you associate a mark in a certain position on the paper with a key on the piano. Gradually you build up to combinations of marks and you start to recognice that x and y mean put your fingers on C and F.
As someone mentioned above - if you're constantly having difficulty you're probably working with pieces that are too advanced for you. If your goal is to improve your reading (and I believe that's a worthy goal!) - then play much simpler pieces - and don't worry about playing very slowly to be sure that you are playing accurately. Time spendt practicing and studying a piece at an extremely slow pace can actually work to making your overall learning move along faster in the big picture.
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Ok thanks all. btw @dmd & Pianostudent88, etc, who were also active in the Improvising Blues Piano threads, iI think you might actually like this book
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I have difficulties finding the correct notes when practicing a piece from paper. Is it a good habit always to sing the notes in your head along - do-la-si-do-... etc? That way - if you sang the melody line a few times with notes, and have memorized them - you have an idea of which note is going to come.
Never done this, but is it something you do? An ear player essentially plays this way. Whether you call it playing from memory or playing by ear, when this is developed well enough you can hear the sound that is wanted, which makes it easier to then find on the keyboard. As it is developed, you can begin to do with harmony too. When reading of course, you rely on the score to find the note. When developing your reading rely on the score, yes. If you prefer to isolate these skills in order to further develop one over the other, that is fine. In the long run though, both skills contribute to better playing and are NOT detrimental to each other. They are friends.
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An ear player essentially plays this way. Whether you call it playing from memory or playing by ear, when this is developed well enough you can hear the sound that is wanted, which makes it easier to then find on the keyboard. An ear player can go from knowing what the note should sound like to playing the correct key. Playing from memory can be done in multiple ways. You can remember what it should sound like and play from that if you have the ear playing skill. A lot of us have "muscle memory" -- basically just remembering physically what to do. A few have "photographic" memory and can picture the sheet music in their minds. There are also people who can study a score away from the piano and learn from it, though without photographic memory. I can't do that, so I don't know what they're doing. I doubt they're memorizing a list of letter names and durations, that would take far too long to execute. Any ideas?
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Nobody has a hard time remembering the pitches and note duration in order to sing Happy Birthday in relative unison. As the majority that are singing it have never had a musical lesson in their life time they are singing from memory. It is the sound they remember of how the thing goes.
Agree with you on the various methods one might use when playing from memory. Muscle memory plays a role for sure, but both skills are used at the same time and the more you can rely on the sound the better you will become at memorizing.
Good readers can internalize the music without physically playing it. So, they can accomplish the same thing away from the keyboard. Remembering how something goes with a bit of what does this physically look like on the keyboard, is so much easier then memorizing the dots on a page, so I can't imagine that is what is going on. Nor would it be recommended. What I think.
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Good readers can internalize the music without physically playing it. So, they can accomplish the same thing away from the keyboard. Shouldn't that be: "people with develloped musical ears can internalize..."
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That too I suppose, but if you can't site sing the music you are not going to be able to internalize it no matter how good your ear may be if all you have to learn it is the score. You would need to at least hear it first. In this example though, if someone is learning a piece away from the instrument with only the score, they need to be good readers, for sure. Good enough to internalize the music as well and know what this will translate to physically.
Guess what I am trying to say is, that it is not all 100% muscle memory of physical movements. Music is all about sound and to me is where the central focus should be when it comes to memorizing. The physical aspect while important is not as important. But, both aspects play a roll.
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That too I suppose, but if you can't site sing the music you are not going to be able to internalize it no matter how good your ear may be if all you have to learn it is the score. You would need to at least hear it first. In this example though, if someone is learning a piece away from the instrument with only the score, they need to be good readers, for sure. Good enough to internalize the music as well and know what this will translate to physically.
.,, Guess what I am trying to say is, that it is not all 100% muscle memory of physical movements. Music is all about sound . If I relied on sight singing to internalize music, I would be lost as I cannot sight sing. But I can read a score and sing it in my head and that is enough. I hear it the way s lovely instrument would play it
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If I relied on sight singing to internalize music, I would be lost as I cannot sight sing. But I can read a score and sing it in my head and that is enough. I hear it the way s lovely instrument would play it
I can't do that with a four-voice fugue. To be honest, I can scarcely even do it for a particular voice of a contrapuntal work, because the voices are not always self-consistent, singable melodies. Often the voices are made to fit the contrapuntal texture as a whole, and their individual musicality is sacrificed to that goal. I have no doubt that I lean music quicker, and retain it better, if it consists of clear melodic lines that I can sing, or at least "hear" in my mind. But I don't think I can rely on being able to do that, because with a lot of music I want to play, I don't think it's even possible (for me.)
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If I relied on sight singing to internalize music, I would be lost as I cannot sight sing. But I can read a score and sing it in my head and that is enough. I hear it the way s lovely instrument would play it
I can't do that with a four-voice fugue... You're quite right, in that not every part is necessarily a singable part. Nor do the parts make much sense without the other parts. Nonetheless, the concept remains the same. When you sing a simple melody from memory you are playing from ear and your instrument is your voice. What we are comparing is finding the notes via a visual or a sound prompt. I have many pieces memorized, but as I sit here on the couch, I can't think of and picture playing anything and exactly where my hands will need to be at any given point in advance. As you start to play though, the tones you need to hear next become evident and you can start into it knowing the sound will guide you. Of course, this is after your practicing is all done and piece is fully memorized with little to no thinking. Finding the notes by associating them with the sound is more direct then finding the notes from a score. It is more direct as music is sound based, not visual based. When it comes to memorizing thus, this becomes very helpful. Strengthen your reading absolutely, but we should also rely on our ears more. Separate the skills to strengthen them perhaps, but do not neglect either, recommended. It is not like you should do one if you are a reader and do the other if you are an ear player. Ear players should learn to read and readers taught to listen more, otherwise they won't need to listen much. Yet, it is most important. i think.
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What do you mean by .... "finding the correct notes" ? If you practice, sometimes your finger taps a wrong key. Would it be easier to get the correct one if you sang the note in your head? If you sang in your head "la" maybe it is easier to tap excactly the A key. The short answer is no. Proprioception training is not connected to notes singing.
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Ok thanks all. btw @dmd & Pianostudent88, etc, who were also active in the Improvising Blues Piano threads, iI think you might actually like this bookThanks for the tip!
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