Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course

Thanks. Lessons with Duane in person would be ideal, but this course is the only option. I'm glad I learned about it here.




Thanks. This is something I appreciate about Duane's course. I'm not only learning how to read music, but all the additional instruction that Duane teaches with each lesson makes it interesting. So far he has been building on the some of the basic concepts. The songs in the lesson books are pretty boring (necessary to learn how to read) and if that's all I was learning, I probably would have given up on the course by now.

God Bless,
David

I'm currently on lesson 19, but here is song from lesson 17 (Sweet Rosie O'Grady), which was the hardest song for me to learn so far in this course. It's even harder than the songs in lesson 18 and 19. Duane introduced several new arrangement techniques that were new to me. I'm not able to do them all e.g., multiple octave runs, but I do what I can. Duane doesn't expect us to learn everything perfectly, but to be aware of what is possible while slowly adding to our arrangement techniques.

In the video below I'll play the song once through the way it's written in the lesson book and then the way Duane arranged it. I don't play it perfectly and I don't think it's a song I'm going to continue to practice, but it was necessary to learn since it's the only song Duane covered in lesson 17 and we have to get comfortable with the techniques before moving on.

God Bless,
David

Hi David,

Well, you have done it again.

Great Job !!!!

You just about have me ready to jump into that course. LOL ....

I do not think I would discard that one if I were you.

That will sound really nice after you get more comfortable with it.

Keep it up.

VERY impressive, David - and such fun, too, in the Shinn arrangement! And that MP11SE is sounding pretty durn nice!!

Thanks. It's a nice song, but since I have a limited time to practice, I'm hesitant to continue adding songs to my repertoire that will require more time to keep up. My ultimate goal is to learn how to make hymns more beautiful. I actually have Duane's Praise and Gospel Course, which I hope to start after this 52 Week (more like 120 week) course is done. At this point in my experience keeping a large repertoire up can be very time consuming.




Thanks. Duane does make it fun that's for sure. Currently I'm using one of the SK Concert Grand presets. They've tweaked a number of the parameters.The sound was actually buried in one of the sound banks (M1 or 2) under the title "12 Foot Grand." It's very close to sounding like their main SK grand sound with just a bit bigger and brighter feel. I like it.

God Bless,
David

I just stumbled across this thread looking into various online learning resources and I just have to pick your brain about this.

You seem to be doing really, really well. How good does one have to be to realistically to be able to get the most out of this course. I read that you were a 2-year beginner when you started (a few pages back), how far along were you really at that time? Do you think you could have started on DS sooner or even that you should have started later?

I like what I read about the course and the way it's laid out to make one not only learn to read music but also various concepts needed to actually make music with it. That's exactly the structure I'd need (as a rank beginner on piano of a few months but not new to music) but what's stopping me are your two quotes. I simply don't find any of the songs stimulating enough to put the required time in. None of them sound like anything I'd like to be able to play at a drop of a hat or retain indefinitely so it's very hard for me to dedicate that amount of time (that's crazy for me, given my schedule) over the period of x years (and yes, that's how much it'd take if you think it'll take you three years to finish it). That's just not the kind of music I'd look forward to practicing day in and day out, sadly. And I'm not aware of any other online resource that works this way but employs a different genre of music as a learning vessel. So I'm pretty torn about it right now...

And while I have your ear, I was just curious... what exactly made you switch from ES8 to MP11SE?

MuddyFox,
The course assumes no prior experience. So yes, a complete beginner could work their way through the course. But here's the thing. The only real negative to this course (imo) is that there's a sense of false expectation created by the model. 52 weekly lessons. I don't think any beginner could reasonably be expected to work through the course in just one year. Each lesson takes about 30 min of video, but the difficulty of the assignments ranges considerably throught the course. Some lessons, even late in the course, you might be able to get through in a few days. On the other hand, some of the lessons might take a month or more to master. So if you feel like, oh geez I spent two weeks on this lesson and I'm still not getting it, I think the temptation to give up would be very strong. Around lesson 7-ish, duane introduces swing bass. That's the first really hard and a huge hurdle, and it happens pretty early in the course. I suspect that a lot of people who try the course give up around then. But if you commit to just working through the course and not giving up, you'll make real progress and you'll be amazed at how much you can learn from it. Compared to a lot of options, it's a very expensive course. Though, if you think of it as being in some way (roughly) equivalent to 2-3 years of private lessons it's not quite as bad, price-wise. It's a waste of money if you're just going to buy it and have it sitting on a shelf. But if you work through it, it's totally worth the money imo. I would say if you're willing to make that commitment, and you have the means, buy the course.

As for the cheesy music, I don't think there's any course out there that's going to be satisfying in that regard. Most courses use public domain music (the crash course does) because 1) most of the songs are familar so you have an idea what the music should sound like and 2) it's free. If they had beatles tunes or whatnot they'd have to pay royalties which would make things more expensive.

There are some method books that have attempted to use more interesting/popular music, ken baker's complete piano player method book for example. But even that had only short sections of popular songs, and very limited beginner's arrangments. I don't think using a book like that would be any more satisfying than a more usual method that uses traditional (cheesy) standards.

But here's the thing. The course is all about learning to arrange music. You can apply the techniques to any sheet music you have. So there's nothing that says you can't supplement the material in the course with more interesting music. One of the things the course teaches you is how to play from a lead sheet/fake book (it teaches you how to read/play from traditional notation as well). You could an inexpensive fake book of popular music and add a couple of popular songs from it to each lesson; for example, and then you could work on applying the techniques from that lesson to the more interesting music. Of course that would mean the course took even longer to work through, but it also might make it a lot more fun for you. It's not a race after all.

Also, here's the other thing. Some of the arrangments that duane does/teaches are really cool. He actually makes some of those cheesy songs really fun and interesting. You can also view that as a personal challenge. Rather than, "god I have to get through this awful song" you can have the attitude "making this cheesy song fun is going to be a challenge, let's see what I can do!" I think that sort of mind frame can help a lot.

Warm Regards,
Fizikisto

Hello Muddyfox,

I'll second everything that fizikisto just wrote. He is spot on.

Regarding my experience prior to the starting the Duane Shinn course at the beginning of this year, yes I had two years of experience with another course (Learn and Master Piano). It was a 28 lesson course and it took me two years to finish. Prior to that I had never played piano before. However, I really, really wish I would have started the Shinn course first and not spent anytime with the previous L&M course. Without getting into a comparison between the two courses, I would highly recommend any beginner to start the 52 week course. Just remember what fizikisto said, it's really not possible for a beginner to finish the course in 52 weeks. Take your time and enjoy the journey.



Everyone should have a long-term goal. If your long-term goal doesn't include a repertoire with these songs in it, but it does include knowing the other things the course teaches, i.e., reading music, arranging music, understanding music theory, a toolbox of arrangement techniques in multiple styles, etc., then you'll recognize that the songs in the course are a means to an end and not an end within themselves. Personally, I want to learn how to apply what I'm learning in the Shinn course to hymns. I have no doubt this course will get me there.



Purely for the upgraded action and that's it. I'm really enjoying the MP11SE and I feel the upgrade was definitely worth it.

God bless,
David

I also completely agree with fizikisto and David.
I just started lesson 16, after 1.5 years, mixing a bit of “as written” and arrangements playing. I got stuck on lesson 15 due to some additional work responsibility and a drop of energy. Slowly recovering now.
If you find difficult arranging the songs, you can just follow the as written in the book , which introduces difficulties and arranging techniques gradually.
You need to give it time and not let go, especially do not get distracted by other new, fancy, superfast , interactive , holographic piano programs...stick with it.

Wow... excellent info! Exactly the kind of digest that I needed. Thanks fellas!

Right now, I'd even be willing to suppress my ADD and try to stick with something like this for 252 weeks that it'd likely take me, but the price is indeed rather steep. With the shipping and tax and import duties to my little third world country here, it'd probably end up costing twice the list price. And it doesn't seem likely they'll be coming out with a downloadable version. Shame, that, because I've been known to spend nearly that much on stuff that sits on the shelf in my other music endeavors over the years.

Again, thanks for the input, much appreciated and I will revisit this idea from time to time for sure...

Well it’s thanksgiving, I would try to send an email to Duane to see if he can make you a special price , considering shipping to croatia...it’s worth a try.
The course is not cheap here in US too, but it is comparable with what you would spend on a teacher lessons, actually way cheaper than that based on the amount of content in the videos.
You could also buy a few lessons at the time.

I’m considering this course and have two questions:
1) Is there interaction with the teacher, or is it just the videos?
2) Is there an option that an iPad-only user could use? I don’t have a PC anymore, I only use an iPad.

mH1963,
1). It's mainly just the videos, but if you have questions you could try emailing Duane or ask here.

2) The course doesn't need a computer at all. It uses DVD's and method books. So all you need besides a keyboard/piano, is a TV and a DVD player.

If you have access to a PC (through a friend or whatever) it is possible to rip the DVD's into video files you can transfer to your iPad, which I think is considered fair use and legal as long as it is for personal use.

Warm regards,
Fizikisto

I don’t have (or want) a tv in the room where my piano is. Since there are so many DVDs, I don’t think they’d all fit on my iPad, but I could do it in chunks. I’d have to use Dropbox or something, since the pc I would use is not one that I would want to sync the iPad with.

I’m an intermediate classical player and a good sight reader but have no improvisational skills whatsoever. My teacher doesn’t teach that sort of thing, and I am a bit torn about changing teachers since she is very good at what she does teach.

I may have a discussion with Santa. 😃

MH1963,
I sent you a private message about getting the video files on your ipad. There was some other stuff that was Off Topic, so I PM'd you rather than threadjack the thread with my tangents. You can read private messages under "My Stuff" at the top of the forum page.

Here is a song from lesson 18 that I really like. It’s a totally new style that hasn’t been covered before. Duane calls it “playful.” I’m not sure what genre it would fall in, but it really speaks to me. It’s a great example of how syncopation can totally change a song. Some of the techniques in this song Duane covered are, color tones (6th and 9ths), turns, grace notes, and fast runs (which I cannot do, so I slow them down). The fast runs are the only technique taught in this lesson that I’m not capable of doing. However, I emailed him and he gave me some encouragement and said speed comes with time.

I’ll play the song through once as it’s written (no syncopation) and then the way Duane arranged it (totally syncopated). The song is, My Wild Irish Rose.



God Bless,
David

I love it, David! Magnifico!!

I signed up for the first month course. I have been playing piano all my life, primarily classical pieces, and religious solos for my church. I don't know chords or any music theory, and have to have the score in order to play something. I'm hoping these lessons will teach me chords and improvisation. What I'm hoping is this old dog can learn new tricks.

Awesome! That's my dream/goal. Hymns and religious solos (not classical). I don't necessary have to play them in church, but it would be nice to achieve that level of proficiency where other people can be blessed besides myself.



I think Duane might have courses more specifically designed just for that. For example, he might have a shorter course just on improvisation or one just on chords. You'll have to look at the offerings on his website (there are many courses) or email him for advice on what would be best for you. The 52 week course is expensive and more designed for beginners like me who don't know how to read music and or much of anything else. Definitely investigate more because you might be able to save money and get more specifically what you need.

God Bless,
David

Epee,
Very cool! The course does teach a lot about chords, and it gives a good foundation in music theory that will allow you to take a piece of sheet music and play it as written or play your own arrangement of it (i.e. improvise around the sheet music). The nice bonus of Duane's approach is that it will help you see the notes on the staff in terms of the chord families instead of in terms of the individual notes. That will really help with your ability to read music, and it will also teach you to be able to basically treat traditionally notated sheet music like a lead sheet. Another bonus of the approach is that it teaches you to play from lead sheets as well. Duane will teach you so many things to do with chords, and with other embellishments for the melody line that you won't ever have to play a song the same way twice, unless you want to.

The crash course doesn't really teach much about improvisation in terms of just sitting down and creatively improvising. And I don't recall if there were any 4 part harmony style hymns in the course (I think not, but if so it's definitely not an emphasis). Duane does have other courses on those topics, but I've not seen them so I can't really comment on how good they are. I will say that the crash course is pretty foundational for a lot of what duane teaches in his other courses. Even though a lot of it will be review for you, you'll learn so much from it that I think it would be worth going through it before trying any more advanced courses. In any case, you can try out those first 4 lessons to see if Duane's style of teaching fits with your style of learning.