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#2690210 - Yesterday at 09:18 AM Good digital piano to replace an old Technics PR370  
Joined: Nov 2017
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dpilot83 Offline
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We have a Technics PR 370. It's old enough to accept floppy disks. We had a power outage and had to run on a generator for awhile and in the midst of all of that we discovered it no longer worked. It turns on but makes strange noises and none of the keys respond and the buttons do unexpected things. I would imagine it's only worth about $300 by now (although my Grandpa who used to own it says he thinks he may have paid as much as $5,000 for it?) so we're just planning on getting something else rather than trying to repair it (unless it might be an extremely easy repair).

There are a dizzying array of replacements options it seems and we are not connoisseurs. It also seems like the stores in our areas would rather just sell us what they have in stock (which seems like low end stuff they hope to be able to get our the door) rather than tailoring their suggestions to our situation. We're hoping for suggestions here that will be a little more refined.

My wife is the one that plays it. She wants the following things:

1. Full sized
2. A sustain pedal at the least
3. Good feel on the keys (weighted keys? We don't even know if ours has that or not but it doesn't feel great)
4. My wife doesn't want something that is silver because it's going to be in our living room. We like the brown color of our current one but black might be OK as well

She says she could imagine that if it were portable she might take it to talent shows and things like that occasionally but if it's like our current one that looks almost like a normal upright piano it will look better in the living room where it will normally be so that's a tossup.

At this point, she does not care about special effects or recording or anything like that. She just wants it to sound and feel like a really good piano. Perhaps that will change in the future.

We do not intend to spend $5,000. We're thinking $2,500 at the very tops and possibly much lower if we can find something used.

If we need to buy an amp and speakers, that needs to fit into the $2,500 budget.

Given all of that, is there anyone willing to point us in the right direction of a keyboard or digital piano that will make us happy? We are happy to search craigslist. Regardless of what we buy we'll have to travel 3 hours unless the seller ships because we live in a very rural area. Denver, Grand Island, Omaha, Salina and Wichita are the likeliest options for us to find something.

The one I have found so far that I'm possibly interested in the used market is a Yamaha CVP405 for sale by the owner (although it would take some negotiating to get it down to the $2,500 range we are talking about).

For the new market the music store I called was recommending an Arius (don't remember which model) which would have been well within our budget (less than $1,500 I think?) but I got the impression they were recommending it mostly because it's what they had on the floor.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Last edited by dpilot83; Yesterday at 11:42 AM.
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#2690239 - Yesterday at 11:49 AM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
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Morodiene Offline
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I would not recommend the CVP405. You are spending a lot of money for something that is probably 10 years old. And in technology terms, 10 years is a looooong time. smile The Arius is Yamaha's entry-level console piano line, so I wouldn't recommend that.

For $2500, you should be able to get a top of the line action, especially if you decide to go with the stage/slab style piano. Stage pianos are portable pianos that do not have the furniture look to them. Some people make their own furniture stands to make them look nice, but then you still get the portability factor when needed.

Along these lines, you could purchase a Kawai ES8 and you can even get a furniture like stand (black) that goes with it. It comes with a damper pedal, but when you buy the stand you can also get the optional 3-pedal unit which would be nice for in-home use. You'd want to purchase a more portable stand for taking it to a gig though. You would also need to buy 2 powered monitors (no amp required for in-home use). If you wanted to take it to gigs though, either the venue would provide a sound system you could plug into, or you'd have to purchase some speakers and amp for live purposes - although you could take your powered monitors with you, but they're really not ruggedly designed for live use, and speakers for live use aren't usually the best for in-home use. I wouldn't worry too much about that right now, however, just pointing that aspect out to you.

But I recommend Kawai mainly because of their great feeling actions. This model is well under your $2500 budget, so you'd have money left over for the other accessories you'd need.

Keep in mind that if you look at console pianos (the ones with furniture), that part of your money goes toward that furniture look. If that's important to you, then you will most likely be looking at a lesser piano than a stage for the same money.

Use pianos can be an option, but like your Grandpa, they remember what they paid for it even though it's really old technology, and so they often will ask for a much higher price than it's actually worth. Digital pianos don't retain their value, so that may help you negotiate a lower price in the used market.

Other brands to check out are Yamaha (be sure to look at models with the GH3 action) and Roland (you'll want ones with the latest PHA-50 action).


private piano/voice teacher FT

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#2690243 - Yesterday at 12:13 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
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Don't forget Casio, especially if you live in a rural area (like I do). Costco sells Casio pianos on their website and occasionally puts them on sale. I got mine that way a couple of years ago. I don't have much to compare it to, frankly, but I do like it rather a lot.

Just about anything is bound to be a huge upgrade over what you have, though.


If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
Currently playing both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
#2690244 - Yesterday at 12:13 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: Morodiene]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
I would not recommend the CVP405. You are spending a lot of money for something that is probably 10 years old. And in technology terms, 10 years is a looooong time. smile The Arius is Yamaha's entry-level console piano line, so I wouldn't recommend that.

For $2500, you should be able to get a top of the line action, especially if you decide to go with the stage/slab style piano. Stage pianos are portable pianos that do not have the furniture look to them. Some people make their own furniture stands to make them look nice, but then you still get the portability factor when needed.

Along these lines, you could purchase a Kawai ES8 and you can even get a furniture like stand (black) that goes with it. It comes with a damper pedal, but when you buy the stand you can also get the optional 3-pedal unit which would be nice for in-home use. You'd want to purchase a more portable stand for taking it to a gig though. You would also need to buy 2 powered monitors (no amp required for in-home use). If you wanted to take it to gigs though, either the venue would provide a sound system you could plug into, or you'd have to purchase some speakers and amp for live purposes - although you could take your powered monitors with you, but they're really not ruggedly designed for live use, and speakers for live use aren't usually the best for in-home use. I wouldn't worry too much about that right now, however, just pointing that aspect out to you.

But I recommend Kawai mainly because of their great feeling actions. This model is well under your $2500 budget, so you'd have money left over for the other accessories you'd need.

Keep in mind that if you look at console pianos (the ones with furniture), that part of your money goes toward that furniture look. If that's important to you, then you will most likely be looking at a lesser piano than a stage for the same money.

Use pianos can be an option, but like your Grandpa, they remember what they paid for it even though it's really old technology, and so they often will ask for a much higher price than it's actually worth. Digital pianos don't retain their value, so that may help you negotiate a lower price in the used market.

Other brands to check out are Yamaha (be sure to look at models with the GH3 action) and Roland (you'll want ones with the latest PHA-50 action).



Thanks. The ES8 sounds pretty nice from your description and sounds really nice on a Kawai promotional video I just watched that was being used for Kraft Music. That being said, when I looked at reviews on Amazon I read the following negative review:

"I'm a classical pianist. The key action of this piano is absolutely ridiculous. When you play the key and it comes back, it "bounces" 2 or 3 times, and if you try to play again while it's bouncing, goodbye sonority control, if you have some sound at all. It's almost impossible to play repeated notes or trinados. I returned it immediately to the dealer. To say the very least: Definitely it is not suitable for any musician from intermediate to advanced."

Having that review in mind while I was watching the promotional video I did notice some key bounce as the pianist released the keys. Is this something to be concerned about or is it just a disgruntled Amazon reviewer?

Last edited by dpilot83; Yesterday at 12:14 PM.
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#2690248 - Yesterday at 12:49 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,155
Morodiene Offline
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Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by dpilot83
Originally Posted by Morodiene
I would not recommend the CVP405. You are spending a lot of money for something that is probably 10 years old. And in technology terms, 10 years is a looooong time. smile The Arius is Yamaha's entry-level console piano line, so I wouldn't recommend that.

For $2500, you should be able to get a top of the line action, especially if you decide to go with the stage/slab style piano. Stage pianos are portable pianos that do not have the furniture look to them. Some people make their own furniture stands to make them look nice, but then you still get the portability factor when needed.

Along these lines, you could purchase a Kawai ES8 and you can even get a furniture like stand (black) that goes with it. It comes with a damper pedal, but when you buy the stand you can also get the optional 3-pedal unit which would be nice for in-home use. You'd want to purchase a more portable stand for taking it to a gig though. You would also need to buy 2 powered monitors (no amp required for in-home use). If you wanted to take it to gigs though, either the venue would provide a sound system you could plug into, or you'd have to purchase some speakers and amp for live purposes - although you could take your powered monitors with you, but they're really not ruggedly designed for live use, and speakers for live use aren't usually the best for in-home use. I wouldn't worry too much about that right now, however, just pointing that aspect out to you.

But I recommend Kawai mainly because of their great feeling actions. This model is well under your $2500 budget, so you'd have money left over for the other accessories you'd need.

Keep in mind that if you look at console pianos (the ones with furniture), that part of your money goes toward that furniture look. If that's important to you, then you will most likely be looking at a lesser piano than a stage for the same money.

Use pianos can be an option, but like your Grandpa, they remember what they paid for it even though it's really old technology, and so they often will ask for a much higher price than it's actually worth. Digital pianos don't retain their value, so that may help you negotiate a lower price in the used market.

Other brands to check out are Yamaha (be sure to look at models with the GH3 action) and Roland (you'll want ones with the latest PHA-50 action).



Thanks. The ES8 sounds pretty nice from your description and sounds really nice on a Kawai promotional video I just watched that was being used for Kraft Music. That being said, when I looked at reviews on Amazon I read the following negative review:

"I'm a classical pianist. The key action of this piano is absolutely ridiculous. When you play the key and it comes back, it "bounces" 2 or 3 times, and if you try to play again while it's bouncing, goodbye sonority control, if you have some sound at all. It's almost impossible to play repeated notes or trinados. I returned it immediately to the dealer. To say the very least: Definitely it is not suitable for any musician from intermediate to advanced."

Having that review in mind while I was watching the promotional video I did notice some key bounce as the pianist released the keys. Is this something to be concerned about or is it just a disgruntled Amazon reviewer?

Piano action preferences vary so widely - even in acoustic grand piano actions. The best thing to do is have your wife try them all out before buying.

I personally own the Kawai MP11, which has an excellent action. I practice regularly on a concert grand piano, but in the summers the MP11 is my own piano, and it works very well. As for the ES8 action, I've heard great things about it. If you wanted, you could probably find a used MP11 since the MP11 SE just came out. It barely counts as a portable piano, but you can move it but it takes two people. I don't know if you'd find a better action in a portable piano. Brand new the MP11 runs about $2800, so a bit over your budget, and it would still need a stand and powered monitors.

The Kawai VPC1 is also excellent, but you do have to use it with a laptop or ipad for sound since it doesn't have any of its own sounds. It's quite a unique instrument, ideal for the serious pianist who wants to play exclusively piano. It's very difficult to try out the VPC1, however, but I know there are people around on this forum who have offered to let someone try theirs out before buying.

Comparable models in the MP11 price range are the Yamaha CP4, and Roland RD-2000. I play the CP4 regularly at my church, and have played some classical music on it as well. I'ts not my top choice, but I know some who love it, so both of these DPs would be great to test out.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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#2690260 - Yesterday at 02:21 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: Morodiene]  
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dpilot83 Offline
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Found this MP11 setup advertised for $2,749. Includes everything in the picture (keyboard, stand, monitors, monitor stands). Is that a decent deal?

[Linked Image]

Last edited by dpilot83; Yesterday at 02:22 PM.
#2690262 - Yesterday at 02:31 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
Joined: Apr 2009
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Pennsylvania
There is a thread on this forum that deals specifically with the ES8 and the CN37 ....

Here it is ....

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...f-advice-kawai-es8-cn37.html#Post2690228


I would not fool around with extra speakers and amps and computer hookups, etc ....

I would just get something that looks and plays like a real piano.

My choice for your wife would be the Kawai CN37.

Here it is ....

http://www.kawaius.com/digital/CNx7/cn37.html

You can probably do a little better on price depending upon where you buy it.


Good Luck


Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
#2690264 - Yesterday at 02:38 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
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There are recent threads here about how you can get an MP11SE (new version) for about $2400 or so, brand new. No z-stand, no speakers, no speaker stands. Whether $350 is worth that for a used (and now discontinued model) DP is up to you (and you'll probably still need to get a bench).

If it were me, I'd offer ~$2000 for the whole thing (and if I were selling, I'd decline that offer).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11
#2690296 - Yesterday at 05:31 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
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Add the Roland FP-90 to the list. It fits into your budget, with some room to spare.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FP90BK

It's a "slab piano", which allows you to carry it out of the house, if you want to. You'll need a stand. Either a Roland "furniture stand", or a _solid_ stage stand like these:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ZStd

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PlatformStdF

The action is (previously recommended) PHA-50. The built-in loudspeakers are good, for a slab piano. You can add outboard speakers, if you need to.



With online sellers, shipping (even to the boondocks) isn't a problem. Two leading online stores in the US are Sweetwater (above), and Guitar Center (GuitarCenter.com). They may have the same owner; prices are competitive.

In your place, I'd try to find a more-or-less "local" store that had some medium-range DP's on display. There's a Guitar Center in Wichita that might be useful:

GUITAR CENTER WICHITA

4448 West Kellogg Drive Wichita, KS 67209
(316) 946-5858


"Personal taste" is important; the sound one person likes, another can't stand. IMHO, in the price range you're looking in, _any_ DP from the Big 3 ( Yamaha / Kawai / Roland) will be OK. (I don't know if Casio competes in that price range; their DP's are quite competitive with others.)

The usual advice on this forum is:

. . . Play the piano, before you buy it.

That is sometimes impossible, but it's good advice if you can follow it.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2690307 - Yesterday at 06:26 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by dpilot83
Found this MP11 setup advertised for $2,749. Includes everything in the picture (keyboard, stand, monitors, monitor stands). Is that a decent deal?

[Linked Image]



Do you really want that in your living room ?

Or better yet .... does your wife want that in the living room ?


Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
#2690309 - Yesterday at 06:40 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
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I wouldn't want that in any room. frown
But with some creative woodworking ...

#2690315 - Yesterday at 07:37 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dmd]  
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dpilot83 Offline
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L
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by dpilot83
Found this MP11 setup advertised for $2,749. Includes everything in the picture (keyboard, stand, monitors, monitor stands). Is that a decent deal?

[Linked Image]



Do you really want that in your living room ?

Or better yet .... does your wife want that in the living room ?


The more my wife has thought about it the more she wants to be able to occasionally take it somewhere. This is definitely not an aspect I am pushing for.

The only reason I'm involved is that she doesn't like researching anything technical. She also doesn't like making phone calls.

To her, feel and sound is important. Also how quiet the keys are (the one we have that broke is really loud). We would both like our kids initial learning experience to be on something that feels very similar to an acoustic piano so they can transition back and forth more easily.

Aesthetics are somewhere on the list but they are lower on her list than portability.

#2690316 - Yesterday at 07:44 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by dpilot83

The more my wife has thought about it the more she wants to be able to occasionally take it somewhere. This is definitely not an aspect I am pushing for.

If you don't mind me making an assumption, she probably won't be able to move it herself. The MP11 is ~75lb. I can one-man it but I try not to move too far with it or go through doorways/up and down stairs without a hand.

Originally Posted by dpilot83
To her, feel and sound is important. Also how quiet the keys are (the one we have that broke is really loud). We would both like our kids initial learning experience to be on something that feels very similar to an acoustic piano so they can transition back and forth more easily.

It's hard to top the MP11 if these are important to you AND you need it to be somewhat portable.

Originally Posted by dpilot83
Aesthetics are somewhere on the list but they are lower on her list than portability.

Well, I guess it IS important to her then smile If she doesn't mind 75lb portable, it's such a good piano. You just need to find a good price (which is not usually easy because Kawai doesn't sell as many of these as Yamaha does P-45s).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11
#2690318 - Yesterday at 07:51 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: Gombessa]  
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
There are recent threads here about how you can get an MP11SE (new version) for about $2400 or so, brand new. No z-stand, no speakers, no speaker stands. Whether $350 is worth that for a used (and now discontinued model) DP is up to you (and you'll probably still need to get a bench).

If it were me, I'd offer ~$2000 for the whole thing (and if I were selling, I'd decline that offer).


I found a thread where they said it was possible at that price but I didn't find a thread where I found who will sell them for that price. I called a lot of dealers today including Guitar Center and Sweetwater. The lowest I found was $2,700 which included shipping to my house.

I did offer $2,000 on the used one I showed a picture of and after some discussion explaining why, it sounds likely that he'll come down that far. He won't be around for awhile to allow me to get it so the ball is in my court now in regards to whether I want to wait for him to get back home or not.

Last edited by dpilot83; Yesterday at 07:57 PM.
#2690319 - Yesterday at 07:59 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: Gombessa]  
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dpilot83 Offline
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by dpilot83

The more my wife has thought about it the more she wants to be able to occasionally take it somewhere. This is definitely not an aspect I am pushing for.

If you don't mind me making an assumption, she probably won't be able to move it herself. The MP11 is ~75lb. I can one-man it but I try not to move too far with it or go through doorways/up and down stairs without a hand.

Originally Posted by dpilot83
To her, feel and sound is important. Also how quiet the keys are (the one we have that broke is really loud). We would both like our kids initial learning experience to be on something that feels very similar to an acoustic piano so they can transition back and forth more easily.

It's hard to top the MP11 if these are important to you AND you need it to be somewhat portable.

Originally Posted by dpilot83
Aesthetics are somewhere on the list but they are lower on her list than portability.

Well, I guess it IS important to her then smile If she doesn't mind 75lb portable, it's such a good piano. You just need to find a good price (which is not usually easy because Kawai doesn't sell as many of these as Yamaha does P-45s).


We figured it would take the two of us to practically take it anywhere. I don't think it will be common but she seems to want the option.

#2690322 - Yesterday at 08:10 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
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Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by dpilot83
Originally Posted by Gombessa
There are recent threads here about how you can get an MP11SE (new version) for about $2400 or so, brand new. No z-stand, no speakers, no speaker stands. Whether $350 is worth that for a used (and now discontinued model) DP is up to you (and you'll probably still need to get a bench).

If it were me, I'd offer ~$2000 for the whole thing (and if I were selling, I'd decline that offer).


I found a thread where they said it was possible at that price but I didn't find a thread where I found who will sell them for that price. I called a lot of dealers today including Guitar Center and Sweetwater. The lowest I found was $2,700 which included shipping to my house.

I did offer $2,000 on the used one I showed a picture of and after some discussion explaining why, it sounds likely that he'll come down that far. He won't be around for awhile to allow me to get it so the ball is in my court now in regards to whether I want to wait for him to get back home or not.

Wow, great deal!! And those are very nice monitors with it. Definitely jump on it if you can!

As far as moving it around, between hubby and I we can move this thing. Just be sure to get a case with wheels, that will help at least with some of it. If you're doing gigs a few times a month or more, then it could be difficult, but once in a while it'll be fine with the two of you to move. Let us know if she is able to try it out and what she thinks!


private piano/voice teacher FT

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#2690323 - Yesterday at 08:11 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
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dmd Offline
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I do not think you can beat the ES8 for something that she wishes to take to talent shows periodically.

The built-in speakers give a very powerful sound and they keyboard touch is excellent.

Simple enough to take off of the furniture stand and you could actually take the furniture stand with you, also.

I would try to stay away from external speakers and stands for the speakers and some kind of stand for the keyboard.

Just too much clutter, for me ... anyway.

Keep it simple.


Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
#2690324 - Yesterday at 08:24 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dmd]  
Joined: Apr 2007
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Morodiene Offline
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Morodiene  Offline
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Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by dmd
I do not think you can beat the ES8 for something that she wishes to take to talent shows periodically.

The built-in speakers give a very powerful sound and they keyboard touch is excellent.

Simple enough to take off of the furniture stand and you could actually take the furniture stand with you, also.

I would try to stay away from external speakers and stands for the speakers and some kind of stand for the keyboard.

Just too much clutter, for me ... anyway.

Keep it simple.




Ya, I really think the OP's wife should try at least a few different DPs mentioned here to get an idea of what's out there. But $2k for that MP11 with the JBL LSR305's is a great deal, and the action of the MP11 is excellent. I think for the wife and their kids either would be good choices though.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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#2690326 - Yesterday at 08:36 PM Re: Trying to replace an old Technics PR370 [Re: dpilot83]  
Joined: Aug 2016
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Gombessa Offline
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Gombessa  Offline
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Nice job, that is a great price smile

Yeah if you are gigging semi-retired regularly the mp11 is probably a bit of a pain, especially if you have to bring your own speakers. But once or twice a year? No prob.

I like to think of mine as semi-permanent rather than semi-portable.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11

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