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Did anybody ship from Thomman to US #2688894
11/12/17 12:05 AM
11/12/17 12:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
CA, US
A
andyarosh Offline OP
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andyarosh  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
CA, US
Hey guys,

I'm looking for people who successfully delivered a digital piano from Thomannmusic to US.
What did you have to pay on top of the price?

I.e. if I'll be ordering CA67 ($2,345), I am in CA btw.
https://www.thomannmusic.com/kawai_ca_67_r.htm?ref=search_prv_7

Curious If I'll have to addtionally pay
* VAT (how much it that?)
* Shipping to US
* Any custom costs at US ?

Or is it a bad idea at all?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2688898
11/12/17 12:24 AM
11/12/17 12:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,218
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Don't do it !
- Shipping cost.
- Potential shipping damage.
- Incompatible power supply.
- No warranty.
- Big mistake.

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2688908
11/12/17 01:47 AM
11/12/17 01:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 961
Portland, OR, USA
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Osho Offline
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Portland, OR, USA
Yes, no warranty! Don't do it. What if a key starts having issues (not too uncommon for Kawai based on the forum posts)?

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2688913
11/12/17 02:30 AM
11/12/17 02:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 177
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Tom Fort Offline
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It’s tempting on Kawai products due to the ridiculous disparity between Kawai’s European and American pricing.

Thomann won’t ship to the US above a certain size and weight. A VPC-1 couldn’t be shipped.

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: Tom Fort] #2688916
11/12/17 02:38 AM
11/12/17 02:38 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 625
Bay Area CA
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pwl Offline
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I also inquired re shipping a VPC1 - they replied they won't ship something that heavy to the US. So it would appear a CA67 is a non-starter.

Btw, I have ordered a couple of small items from them without a problem.

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2688951
11/12/17 09:52 AM
11/12/17 09:52 AM
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Posts: 87
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kickthetiger Offline
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http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...gital-piano-prices-paid.html#Post2557605

Talk to your local shop, or any within a reasonable drive, about price matching. There's a new model coming out, any of the old ones left over, especially at the end of December after Christmas, could be available at a good price.

Importing to the US for personal use if the declared value is over $800 you have to pay tariffs. Over $2500 you need to do a formal import, unless you do this often that means paying the freight company or hiring a customs broker to do it for you. Figure ~5% tariff plus fees of $100-200, You save some on fees with an informal import, where the customs employee does the paper work for you. No guarantee that you won't be forced to do a formal import even if the value is under $2500. You generally don't pay EU VAT on exports. You may get hit with CA sales tax. Shipping expect at lease several hundred, maybe closer to $1000. And no warranty.

If you're dealing with no warranty and potentially shipping damage - so you have access to someone who can repair any damage, maybe look into buying used in the US. Or used from oversees. Japan might be cheaper for you than Europe. Unless you needed the GF2 keybed look at the CA17/CA65/CA95 too. There are services that will buy stuff in Japan and ship it to you. But seriously, importing a piano from oversees could run $1000 over the price you see in the online mall. Maybe more. Maybe budget in a few hundred for repair work since you don't have a warranty. Get a total quote, and if it's still way cheaper than buying new in the US bring it to your dealer. See if they really want your business.

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: MacMacMac] #2688960
11/12/17 11:21 AM
11/12/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,442
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline
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Dave Horne  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,442
Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Don't do it !
- Shipping cost.
- Potential shipping damage.
- Incompatible power supply.
- No warranty.
- Big mistake.



That about sums it up.

Here in the Netherlands I believe the import tax is 25 percent and then there's the VAT of 21 percent. There might even be a tax for the shipping costs as well.

There are ways of getting around this, but you have to be creative.

If you happen to know anyone in the US military stationed in Europe who will be returning back to the US, buy the keyboard as a gift for that individual and have that keyboard included in their house hold goods.

Buy local even if it means spending more.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: Dave Horne] #2688966
11/12/17 12:40 PM
11/12/17 12:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,450
Lampedusa
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Lampedusa
For delicate instruments and equipment, I think you will have a much more enjoyable experience buying local.

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2688978
11/12/17 01:39 PM
11/12/17 01:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,241
Germany
JoBert Offline
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JoBert  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,241
Germany
Guys, all this speculation about warranty and tax and customs is pointless, as it was already established, that Thomann does not ship such heavy/large items to the US in the first place

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: newer player] #2688987
11/12/17 02:21 PM
11/12/17 02:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,442
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Dave Horne  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,442
Vught, The Netherlands
Yet another military scam for the US working-class to pay for...kindly consider deleting this.

I've asked friends visiting from the US to bring over items that I purchased and had sent to their US address.

Am I perpetuating a scam? Should this post be deleted?


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2688993
11/12/17 02:55 PM
11/12/17 02:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 122
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Edb123 Offline
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Posts: 122
Get FedEx to deliver it for you - just tell them where to pick up and it will be on one of their cargo planes the same day and U could have it in a few days after ordering

Just tell thomann a FedEx guy will come pick it up for you - the shipping is now no longer thomanns problem

Just insure it with FedEx

Kawai ships these things all over the world - the hypocrisy in this thread is disgusting - its blatant profiteering

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2688998
11/12/17 03:49 PM
11/12/17 03:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,218
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,218
Raleigh, North Carolina
Bad advice.
Using FedEx instead of Thomann's choice of shipper does NOTHING to mitigate the problems cited above.

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: Edb123] #2689028
11/12/17 05:51 PM
11/12/17 05:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 460
F
Falsch Offline
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Falsch  Offline
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Posts: 460
Originally Posted by Edb123


Kawai ships these things all over the world - the hypocrisy in this thread is disgusting - its blatant profiteering


The biggest problems are already mentioned:

1. you could end up having to jack around with a power convertor, as a piano produced for Europe will have a 220-240V - 60Hz power supply which possibly does NOT have an in-built capability to run on the US 110-120V - 50Hz specifications. If you use the piano outside of the specs set by Kawai for that particular model, you'll have no warranty.

2. If something breaks which is -in- warranty, there is a chance Kawai US just tells you to ship it back to Germany, as that's where it was bought. And then, after it's fixed, you'll pay to have it shipped back to you again.

Then you have the extra taxes, import fees, and whatever... you might save some money, but you'll have to live with the risk of not being assisted, ever, if something goes and breaks.

Last edited by Falsch; 11/12/17 05:52 PM.

Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2689053
11/12/17 09:17 PM
11/12/17 09:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,540
US
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gvfarns Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
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US
I guess I'm going to have to disagree with a lot of posters here. There is very little risk of shipping from another country.

No warranty is the big one, but how big is that, really? If you were at a local piano shop and they offered you thousands of dollars off your piano in exchange for not getting a warranty, would you go for it? No right answer to that question. Personally, I would.

Different power plug? Not a serious problem. These pianos are shipped all over the world and are almost certainly designed to be used with more than one type of power. Worst case (and very unlikely) scenario, the 110 US power doesn't run it. But it won't damage it. If it was built for 110 and you used 220, that would be a different situation. Very unlikely for an international company like Kawai.

I personally have plenty of things shipped to me from China that I could buy locally for more money. For most things, lack of warranty is no big deal (compared to the expected savings). Can you get unlucky by saving a few thousand up front and then having a repair that costs more? Yes, but not with very high probability. That's pretty expensive insurance.

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2689074
11/12/17 11:14 PM
11/12/17 11:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,218
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,218
Raleigh, North Carolina
gv: On your first point I could agree ... if indeed the foreign price differs from the local by "thousands of dollars".
But the OP is talking about a CA67, and I wouldn't expect to buy one new from Thomann for thousands less than a US dealer.

As for the different power plug ... that's a maybe. Here's why:

The service manual for my Clavinova shows schematic variations for this model as sold in a number of different countries around the world. All have a slightly different power transformer. (Or possibly the same transformer, but wired with different taps on the primary side.) All use the same linear power supply design.

The US (U) and Japanese (J) models are hard-wired for 120 VAC (but only the US model has a polarized power plug).
The British (B), European (E), and Korean (K) models are hard-wired for 240 VAC.

And then there is the N model. There's no indication of country, and I presume this is a "rest-of-world" variety.
It has a switch inside allowing for selection of power sources: 110 V, 130 V, 220 V or 240 V.
It's not clear whether the retailer sets this switch prior to sale, or whether this is done at the distribution point based on the destination country.

The US and Japanese varieties are compatible (save for the polarized plug), but are not compatible with the British, European, Korean ones.
The European variety won't power up in the US.
The US variety will fry in Europe.
And it's pot luck trying the N model at your location.

I suspect that your comment relates to pianos with an external power brick.
Those that contain a switch-mode power supply may well be "auto-sense" ... able to accept anything from 110 V to 240 V.

For pianos that's a "maybe". Many laptop computer bricks can do that. It makes for easier world-wide distribution of components.
But I don't know whether that applies to the bricks used to power piano keyboards. (Can somebody comment? The label on the brick might give the answer.)

As for console pianos with internal power supplies ... what I said above is anecdotal. It applies to my older Clav.
I don't know whether it applies to newer Clavs (or to the Kawai CA67 in question).
Perhaps newer piano have auto-sense switch-mode supplies? If so, your point is correct. That is, just swap out the wrong power plug for the right one, and you're done.

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: MacMacMac] #2689097
11/13/17 04:30 AM
11/13/17 04:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 393
Sao Paul, Brazil
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EVC2017 Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
(Can somebody comment? The label on the brick might give the answer.)


Full range (i.e. 100-240Vac) brick on the ES8.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2689104
11/13/17 06:34 AM
11/13/17 06:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,237
Wales
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voxpops Offline
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Wales
I've had smaller items shipped from Thomann to the US. The company is reliable and used to charge a flat rate of 30 euros for shipping to the States (a few years ago). For all the reasons stated above I would be wary of purchasing a DP or keyboard for international shipping. I've just posted on another thread that I would have had to convert the voltage on my MP7 if I'd shipped it back from the US to the UK when I moved to Wales from Oregon.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: EVC2017] #2689148
11/13/17 12:18 PM
11/13/17 12:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,450
Lampedusa
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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
(Can somebody comment? The label on the brick might give the answer.)


Full range (i.e. 100-240Vac) brick on the ES8.


That is the case for your ES8.

That spec may have changed during the product lifecycle. Or may change by geographic market as illustrated in MacMacMac's detailed post.

Make sure you (or a qualified tech if you are not certain what you are looking at) check your unit carefully before plugging it into mains!

Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2689149
11/13/17 12:22 PM
11/13/17 12:22 PM
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Falsch Offline
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Thomann is a good store where I bought some smaller items not easily available in the Netherlands. One example was the rotary speaker switch for my Nord C2D a few years ago. It was unavailable in the Netherlands for at least 8 weeks, while Thomann had it in stock. I wouldn't buy a piano there if I can help it.

I'd only take the risk if it would net me several hundred euro's, but mostly, Thomann's prices are very similar to the ones in the Netherlands. If not, I point this out (I can actually reach Thomann by car, and Music Store as well), and I get a price adjustment close enough to Thomann's price to make it not worth it.

Last edited by Falsch; 11/13/17 12:24 PM.

Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: Did anybody ship from Thomman to US [Re: andyarosh] #2689166
11/13/17 01:45 PM
11/13/17 01:45 PM
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gvfarns Offline
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Good points, MacMacMac. The decision of whether to have something shipped from Europe does depend on how much money is to be saved and one's own technical expertise and risk-aversion (and level of personal optimism).

If it would only save a few hundred dollars, I would probably still buy locally. But I have a lot more money these days than I used to. Last time I bought a digital piano I bought it refurbished because I had to eat Ramen in order to save up for it. I would have jumped at the chance to have had it even cheaper shipped from Europe. Of course, I'm pretty sure my last piano had a 110/220 switch on the back.

Last edited by gvfarns; 11/13/17 01:45 PM.
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