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Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? #2689090
11/13/17 02:57 AM
11/13/17 02:57 AM
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Jobeanie123 Offline OP
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With the hopes of saving several hundred dollars (even after shipping and import tax), I ordered a new Kawai MP11SE from a company in the UK, shipped to the US. So far, so good: The grand total so far is just under $2400 for the piano, the shipping, and the import duty. Spare me the frightening details of why that might turn out to be a bad idea (I hadn't even considered warranty being an issue until I was reading through a thread tonight), but assuming everything goes well, I also just realized that a UK model might not work here in the US.

After searching many threads and reading the manual, I can't seem to come to a consensus as to whether I'll need a UK to US 110/240 step-up voltage adapter, or a UK to US non-converting adapter, or neither. I'm not sure if there is one worldwide model of this piano that accepts a range of input voltages, or if it is hard wired based on the country. I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could shed some light on this issue. Thank you.


Kawai KG-2C
Kawai MP11SE
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Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689094
11/13/17 03:41 AM
11/13/17 03:41 AM
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*** Do NOT just plug this in and try!

***Unless you receive confirmation from a reliable source that the UK version MP11se will automatically switch to US voltage & frequency, you really need to have a qualified tech look at this for you for safety & to ensure you don't kill the machine before using it.

- UK typically runs 230 volts at 50 Hz. They also use a large plug with a fuse.

- US is typically 120 volts at 60 Hz. Small three prong plug (inexpensive).




The MP11SE seems to have power conversion inside the box either as:

1 auto switching inside
2 a power supply that a professional tech can rewire to 120/60
3 fixed and require a new power supply to be installed by a professional tech

I would expect tech cost to be $100 to $200

Or as you mention you could get an external box which converts to 230/50. Good quality transformers are quiet and durable. Make sure to get something suited for a digital piano (e.g. not a cheap travel converter for hairdryers).

The photos and user manuals on the UK and US sites are not definitive. That may have changed between the MP11 & MP11SE also. And different types of power supplies may be shipped to different regions for logistical reasons. So a US service manual for a MP11 or MP11se may be completely useless for you. And power supplies may change over time for the same piano.



Last edited by newer player; 11/13/17 03:53 AM.
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: newer player] #2689095
11/13/17 04:01 AM
11/13/17 04:01 AM
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Jobeanie123 Offline OP
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Yes, as eager as I am to play it, I certainly was not going to plug it into anything without confirmation from a reliable source, and I wondered if this was a good place to start. I suppose I can email Kawai as well as the retailer I ordered from to see if a.) I was shipped a UK-specific version and b.) what steps would be required to make it work here, if so. Thank you laying out the potential options/situations here, I appreciate it.


Kawai KG-2C
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689103
11/13/17 06:27 AM
11/13/17 06:27 AM
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This was precisely the reason I sold my MP7 before moving from the US to the UK. Apart from the cost and risks of shipping, the MP7 was voltage-specific. I could have had the transformer rewired or replaced (or purchased a voltage converter), but decided that it was not worth the hassle. I understand the reason for ordering from a different country, especially when the exchange rate is favorable, but all aspects need to be considered before pulling the trigger.

If the MP11SE has not already shipped, I would be inclined to consider canceling the order and negotiating with a local dealer.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689122
11/13/17 09:37 AM
11/13/17 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by newer_player
. . .
Or as you mention you could get an external box which converts to 230/50. Good quality transformers are quiet and durable. Make sure to get something suited for a digital piano (e.g. not a cheap travel converter for hairdryers).


+1.

I just went over the User Manual (English) -- that's the English _language_, not the UK _model_. The manual is frustrating -- it tells you that the unit needs 5 watts, but doesn't specify the voltage (or frequency) required.

And it has drawings of three possible plugs -- British, European, and US.

If it comes with a British plug, I'd go to some lengths to get a 120v-to-230v transformer. You could use that, safely, and its cost would be reasonable. (There is a British tradition of making the buyer attach the plug to the power cable -- be prepared!)

We have a shop in Vancouver BC that specializes in such stuff:

https://www.facebook.com/foreign.electronics/

Call them (or e-mail them), call Kawai, and figure out what to do.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689126
11/13/17 09:56 AM
11/13/17 09:56 AM
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Voltage conversion is relatively simple. What I would check very carefully is whether the difference in frequency matters or not. Are there timed operations in the system that would fail or work incorrectly of you ran a 50hz machine at 60hz or vice versa?

Does the manual make this clear, at least? Or is it a non issue with digital equipment - I'm really not sure and it'd be useful to know. But absolutely essential to check out if you're thinking of importing from another continent.

Mains voltage converters cost between 5 and 50 according to a brief search. But converting from 50 to 60hz appears to be much bulkier, more complicated and at least $1000.

http://www.gohz.com/frequency-converter


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

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Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689130
11/13/17 10:35 AM
11/13/17 10:35 AM
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There was a thread here about 2 or 3 years ago where a fellow from Australia purchased an MP11 from abroad and modified the input voltage for use in his country. I am unable to quickly find this thread just now, but as I recall at least on the MP11 it all boiled down to just changing a jumper wire location on the internal power supply circuit board. He posted some pictures of the circuit board of interest, and it was an easy modification.

I do not know if the MP11SE would be using the same internal power supply as the MP11, but if so it looks as if it may be relatively straight forward. I would be surprised that the frequency difference i.e. 50 vs 60 Hz would make a difference since the output of power supplies for digital gear is very often rectified to a fixed DC voltage.

Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689134
11/13/17 11:26 AM
11/13/17 11:26 AM
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Jobeanie123 Offline OP
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I emailed Kawai UK technical support last night and they confirmed that a piano from the UK will be UK-voltage specific. The manual has clear instructions as to how to wire the UK plug, which I am comfortable doing. They said I could have a technician "modify" the instrument to work with 120v, or that a voltage converter would also work fine. As I've understood from research in the past, the 50/60hz difference rarely makes any difference except in some certain analog AC devices that use the Hz as a timekeeping device - I certainly doubt that this keyboard would somehow run on AC power considering it has a computer, and considering that every other keyboard I know converts externally or internally to DC. Since the official Kawai support said a voltage converter of at least 100 watts would work, I am going to take their word for it and give that a shot. I will look for a quality converter rated at well over 100 watts, though the specifications for the MP11SE online does state a 20w (not 4w as mentioned above) power draw. To account for possible peaks as well as for the longevity of the converter, I will buy one that is rated at more than the 100w that support recommended.

Thanks again for everyone's help - I evidently forgot to consider every aspect of importing a digital piano into the US, but it's due to be delivered today or tomorrow so I'm not going to send it back. If nothing else goes wrong (knock on wood), I should have still saved about $250 over buying it in the US, or about $200 over the US MP11SE order in the "prices paid" thread. Probably not at all worth the hassle, and not something I will consider in the future.

I will try to remember to post an update here if I am able to get it up and running with a power converter on the off chance that anyone else makes the same mistake in the future!


Kawai KG-2C
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689135
11/13/17 11:30 AM
11/13/17 11:30 AM
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Sounds like you already have your answer.

Just in case it's helpful, here are few pics in/around an MP11 (not an SE) which may help save some time if you go the technician route:

Bando KT-032 internal transformer:
[Linked Image]

Label on the back:
[Linked Image]


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Charles Cohen] #2689139
11/13/17 12:05 PM
11/13/17 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jobeanie123
As I've understood from research in the past, the 50/60hz difference rarely makes any difference except in some certain analog AC devices that use the Hz as a timekeeping device


Maybe. Have a qualified tech determine if that generalization applies to the components in your new piano.


Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
I just went over the User Manual (English) -- that's the English _language_, not the UK _model_. The manual is frustrating -- it tells you that the unit needs 5 watts, but doesn't specify the voltage (or frequency) required.

And it has drawings of three possible plugs -- British, European, and US.


It is frustrating. I scanned the UK and Australian manuals; the link to the US manual was broken last night. They were not too helpful.

Also the Kawai UK & global sites shows the MP11se back panel has a mains receptor with only 2 connectors. That would imply the MP11se has no ground/earth but only Line & Neutral (aka Phase & Neutal or Live & Neutral). Both the Kawai UK & US sites show the MP11 (old version) back panel with a mains receptor with 3 connectors. So maybe the MP11se has changed or these are just prototype photos. You will find out when the box arrives.

And see what the label underneath says regarding power supply (as Gombessa did whilst I was writing!). Don't post the serial number on the internet.


Last edited by newer player; 11/13/17 12:07 PM.
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: newer player] #2689143
11/13/17 12:09 PM
11/13/17 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Don't post the serial number on the internet.



I'm just curious as to why?


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689147
11/13/17 12:16 PM
11/13/17 12:16 PM
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Not to be "that guy" or anything...

But seriously - all of this to "save" $200...?

And then to not have a warranty on top of that?

BTW - I found a local dealer that gave me a price below what you are paying and having all of these headaches over...

Local dealers get a bad rap when it comes to pricing - but there are a lot of them out there that are willing to negotiate to get your business.


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Pologuy] #2689150
11/13/17 12:23 PM
11/13/17 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Pologuy
BTW - I found a local dealer that gave me a price below what you are paying and having all of these headaches over...


Pologuy -

1. Could you look at the back panel of your MP11SE - does the power jack have 2 or 3 metal contacts?

2. Could you look at the bottom sticker (as shown by Gombessa) and write exactly what is written in the AC and HZ boxes? It might just be: AC~120V 60Hz

Last edited by newer player; 11/13/17 12:23 PM.
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: newer player] #2689153
11/13/17 12:36 PM
11/13/17 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Originally Posted by Pologuy
BTW - I found a local dealer that gave me a price below what you are paying and having all of these headaches over...


Pologuy -

1. Could you look at the back panel of your MP11SE - does the power jack have 2 or 3 metal contacts?

2. Could you look at the bottom sticker (as shown by Gombessa) and write exactly what is written in the AC and HZ boxes? It might just be: AC~120V 60Hz


I don't have it "yet" - I am waiting on the price of the NV10 to be released.

You might want to try David on here - he just got one.


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: newer player] #2689161
11/13/17 01:11 PM
11/13/17 01:11 PM
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Jobeanie123 Offline OP
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Jobeanie123  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by newer player


Maybe. Have a qualified tech determine if that generalization applies to the components in your new piano.



Good call.

Originally Posted by Pologuy


Not to be "that guy" or anything...

But seriously - all of this to "save" $200...?



Yes, unfortunately there were quite a few things about the purchase that I realized too late to cancel – potential lack of warranty, import tax, power compatibility. Of course if I could go back in time, I would have just bought it within the US. I don't blame you for being "that guy" – I'd point out the same if it were someone else, but apparently I got too excited when I saw a brand new Kawai MP11SE for $2250 shipped to the US (plus the 5.6% import duty). My current total is $2,376, plus the potential for needing this converter.

Originally Posted by Pologuy


BTW - I found a local dealer that gave me a price below what you are paying and having all of these headaches over...



Unfortunately I'm out in the middle of absolutely nowhere, and my most "local" dealer is farther away than I can even drive to and from in the span of a day. Of course, I could have and should have called around to a few US retailers to see about pricing, availability, and shipping – perhaps I could have been in a much better situation. Live and learn, I guess. It's fascinating to hear that you found a dealer willing to sell it for less than I paid, I didn't realize there were any dealers willing to sell it for so little, and I guess this speaks as to exactly why I should have done more research beforehand.


Kawai KG-2C
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689162
11/13/17 01:21 PM
11/13/17 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jobeanie123

Yes, unfortunately there were quite a few things about the purchase that I realized too late to cancel – potential lack of warranty, import tax, power compatibility. Of course if I could go back in time, I would have just bought it within the US. I don't blame you for being "that guy" – I'd point out the same if it were someone else, but apparently I got too excited when I saw a brand new Kawai MP11SE for $2250 shipped to the US (plus the 5.6% import duty). My current total is $2,376, plus the potential for needing this converter.


Don't beat yourself up over it. People make far poorer choices every day buying "domestically" on ebay to save less money. FWIW, I would have been shocked to see a newly-released SE for <$2400, as that kind of price would strike me more as a non-SE MP11 clearance price. So power conversion aside, you may still end up well in the black here, and hopefully the DP arrives in great shape!


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Jobeanie123] #2689163
11/13/17 01:27 PM
11/13/17 01:27 PM
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Jobeanie123 Offline OP
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One more update: I got a response from the retailer that I purchased from, they said if I ordered from the online American store (as opposed to the UK one with the price listed in pounds and not dollars) then there "shouldn't be an issue with the voltage," but apparently this is something they were unable to confirm, as they said to contact them again "if" there is an issue so that they can advise from there. Edit: Upon viewing the non-mobile website, which due to internet speeds has been a constraint since I purchased it, the bottom of the page does say that the order "may contain items that use a UK plug." Somehow I am thinking that email may be incorrect...

Supposedly, they also have a 30-day money back guarantee from the date of delivery where they will also pay the return shipping from US back to UK – I certainly hope it doesn't come to that, but it's nice to know that it's an option, although presumably there's no way to recoup the import duty.

I got a call from the shipping service this morning saying that it would be delivered on Friday, so now I will hurry up and wait. Thanks again for everyone's input on the matter, and I'm glad now I know how not to buy a piano in the future!

Last edited by Jobeanie123; 11/13/17 01:32 PM.

Kawai KG-2C
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Gombessa] #2689164
11/13/17 01:29 PM
11/13/17 01:29 PM
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Jobeanie123 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
FWIW, I would have been shocked to see a newly-released SE for <$2400, as that kind of price would strike me more as a non-SE MP11 clearance price. So power conversion aside, you may still end up well in the black here, and hopefully the DP arrives in great shape!


Thank you for the reassurance. I remain optimistic that all goes well.


Kawai KG-2C
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Pologuy] #2689182
11/13/17 02:23 PM
11/13/17 02:23 PM
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I'm with Pologuy on this ...
Originally Posted by Pologuy
But seriously - all of this to "save" $200...? And then to not have a warranty on top of that?
My Clavinova required an in-warranty repair in the first year. It would surely have cost $200 if not for the warranty. I'd be loathe to forego a warranty just to save a small amount.

As to the power requirements ... a suitable transformer will drop 240 V to 120 V ... or raise 120 V to 240 V. If you can find one with the appropriate max-current rating.
But it's bulky.
If you're up on your electronics craft it's not hard to build one into a small box with a power-in cord and a power-out socket.
If not you can buy a finished unit, but it will be much more costly.

The mains frequency is usually not relevant. An internal power transformer sized to take 50 Hz will run fine on 60 Hz.

The reverse **might** not be the case. One designed to run at 60 Hz will run a bit warmer when given 50 Hz, as when moving a US-targeted 60 Hz device to Europe 50 Hz.
Will you take it beyond spec? I can't say.
But that's not the case when speaking about a Euro-targeted 50 Hz design being brought over to US 60 Hz.

If the unit has a switching supply the mains frequency won't matter at all.
If that's an external brick, it's quite probably a switch-mode supply, so you need only get the voltage right.
Even that might not be necessary! In the thread titled "Did anybody ship from Thomman to US?", member EVC2017 tells us that his ES8 has a brick that is labeled to accept anything from 100 V to 240 V. It'll work anywhere.

If it's an internal supply you won't know whether it's switch-mode or linear without either opening the piano for examination. (See that jumbo iron block with wires? That's the transformer in a linear supply.)
Or by consulting the service manual. (Forget about the user manual. It won't tell you anything useful about the power supply.)

Re: Kawai MP11SE from the UK - will I need a voltage converter? [Re: Gombessa] #2689192
11/13/17 02:45 PM
11/13/17 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Don't beat yourself up over it.


This. It's done now. We live and learn. The main thing is to get it and to enjoy it.


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
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