2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
46 members (1200s, clothearednincompo, akse0435, busa, Doug M., 36251, Davidnewmind, Dfrankjazz, brdwyguy, 6 invisible), 1,207 guests, and 255 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 160
B
BWV 846 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 160
This question relates to BWV 926 -- the Little Prelude in d minor -- but also applies to other Bach Little Preludes/Inventions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyvP0pdGP8A

Do ornaments usually go up or down:

1) a half step?
2) a whole step?
3) to the next pitch in the key?
4) to something else?

Or does it all depend on various factors?

This especially relates to m. 21 -- are the top notes (a) C# C C#, (b) C# B C#, or (c) C# Bb C#?

But any help with more broadly applicable principles would be appreciated. Danke

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,831
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,831
This should help.

[Linked Image]

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,831
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,831
It is important to realize that the ornaments are left to the performer to add or remove, to change the type of ornament, and to change the execution of a particular ornament as it suites the mood of the performer or the instrument or the audience or the room.

That being said, there are reasonable constraints on how far afield one can go before the learned audience starts tossing tomatoes at you.

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,831
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,831
In answer to your question regarding meas. 21, it is played using a B natural.

There are two justifications for this:

1) the structure is, at that moment, in the dominant (A Major, which requires a B natural); and

2) the structure implies, at that moment, an ascending melodic minor scale (hidden within the arpeggiated movement), which also requires a B natural.

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,231
J
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,231
BWV 926, otherwise known as Prelude No. 3 from '9 Little Preludes' (BWV 924-931)

Glenn Gould: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyOV533fOM4

Alan Huckleberry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v40-__2JeRY

Barbara Arens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SBsFOcfipU

Oh.... here's a midi version by ME (just for fun).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIreUTx8GKQ&index=3&list=PLP5BZzcdRkq2rN3XRaEqDkns9rvNmEAq3

All completely DIFFERENT.

I wouldn't get TOOOOO hung up on ornamentation. Youtube and various editions provide a huge range of plausible ornamentation. My own approach is governed by what feels "right" in the context of the tempo, phrasing, and articulation that I ultimately adopt.









Last edited by johnlewisgrant; 11/12/17 08:06 PM.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,030
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,030
It's what tastefully fits the music and what feels right. Usually these ornament suggestions are only used by people performing in historical context. Don't trill like Chopin, but you can be a little more free in terms of whether or not to start on the auxiliary or above, etc.

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 18
A
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 18
Someone I like a lot but who steps out a bit more than the aforementioned pianists when it comes to ornamentation is Andras Schiff (sp?). I feel like he is always worth a listen, although a lot of people are very critical of his choice of tempi and his use of pedaling. I don't know if he has recorded the piece you are asking about or not, though. Best of luck with it!


Practice makes permanent. CORRECT practice makes perfect.

Pianos-Lazarus "Murphy" the Schulz 5' grand (c. 1930)
Kahuna Willi the Wilhelm T. Steinberg IQ28 w/ Fandrich Vertical Action (c. 1995)
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 160
B
BWV 846 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 160
Danke!


Moderated by  Bart K, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,385
Posts3,349,185
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.