Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum What are good ways to learn 3 on 4 polyrhythms?

So, theoretically (Mathematically) I understand where the beat is.

3 on 4 the 4 is 1/4th longer thus the hand that plays three should always be in 1 1/4th time.

In practice this is a lot harder though... How do I practice this effectively?

Doing it in this piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5sFVAbWiDI

I learned simple polyrhythms over time by clapping my hands on my knees, doing 3 on 4, 4 on 3, and then eventually trying to switch back and forth.

Also, "Pass the bread and butter"

Mhh, yeah maybe I should try to begin simple at first...

I tried doing triplets at once.

How would I work with "Pass the bread and butter?" ... I think I tried it, and without much practice I pretty much play in 3/4 at once. I find that very strange? So not sure if I'm correct.

Edit: I think this is 5 on 3

I get this with Pass the bread and butter: https://soundcloud.com/dario-sanchez-martinez-417965971/polytest/s-oeBEK

Pass..........(hands together)
The......................(RH)
Bread..................(LH)
And......................(RH)
But.......................(LH)
ter.........................(RH)

Nice & slow. Tap it out on your knees first. Speed it up and you'll begin hearing it. Once you can hear it clearly you can transfer to the piano.
You should also swap the left & right hands around too so you can feel it on both sides.

I never could figure out how to make those sentences work cognitively while executing with y hands. I struggled but eventually just got it right, partly playing the 4 very evenly, then the 3 very evenly, then sounding the first note together then continuing only the 3 rhythm, each time bringing playing the 4 initial note so that you have a structure to hang the rest on. I struggled, but with slow practice found it. Chopin Trois Nouvelle Etudes was my first effort. Soon it was very natural. My apologies for a fairly poor explanation, but neither could I find a good written one, and my teacher rightly said I just have to figure it out. Yes, we can get the math, but you have to find your anchor spots. Eventually will find the rest. Enjoy the struggle. The joy is real once you can play it! For me, slow practice.

Once played Schubert's version of "Ave Maria". The Time Sig is in 4/4. The R melody is playing in 4 while the L is in 6 all the way through. In the beginning looked challenging.

Took a piece of paper and drew 4 rectangles of the same width side by side for the R part. And underneath 6 rectangles that would represent the L part. Every time I have trouble visualizing how the notes should line up I'd take out the diagram to see when my L gets to a certain note, my R should be at a certain note. After you play the song for a minute and get used to the beat pattern the rest is just repetition.

Thank! That's very clear! I'll practice that

But remember that the interval between the words/syllables must not be equal. If you tap this with equal intervals between the six words/syllables, the 4-rhythm will be uneven.

I.e. if you tap

Pass(L+R) ... The(R) ... Bread(L) ... And(R) ... But(L) ... ter(R)

with equal intervals between the words/syllables (where I typed the "..." between), then you get an uneven 4-rhythm. Below, each "*" is a clap, with even intervals between all claps, which results in uneven interval in the right hand:

|*-*-*-*-*-*-|
|R-R---R---R-|
|L---L---L---|

So you need to make the interval between "The ... Bread" and "But ... ter" shorter, and after "Pass ... " and after "ter ..." longer, like this:

|*--**-*-**--|
|R--R--R--R--|
|L---L---L---|

So you need to make the interval between "The ... Bread" and "But ... ter" shorter, and after "Pass ... " and after "ter ..." longer, like this:

|*--**-*-**--|
|R--R--R--R--|
|L---L---L---|


I know what you mean. Limitations of explaining this musical concept with clunky English language. You've done well!

I tried to make my own as well, so I need to test what works better for me.

Tri - Pa - Le - Ti

The Right hand always landing on the "Tri" but since the left hand is 1/4th longer, it should always land on the next in order. So then the left hand would land on the Tri first, then on the second Pa, then on the Le, then on the Ti, till it's back at Tri.

Lypur/Andrew Furmanczyk has a video on polyrhythms. He also suggests clapping to phrases, Not (ve-ry) difficult, for 2/3, and (4/3).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXQjFRU83gU&index=26&list=PL253192EED47525A8

An example of work process:

https://yadi.sk/d/HUq4Th_J3Pby4q

https://yadi.sk/d/7tN0H-J23Pby6S

41- for an acoustic piano. Strictly follow the order, but you can vary the number of repetitions of each hand, gradually reducing to a minimum.


42 - for digital piano with split. During the hearing of one hand, the second also actively presses the keys with the volume off ; her mistakes are not heard, and she does not slows down the process . It works more on residual muscle memory.

This video is simply ridiculous - to draw a rhythmic feeling! Rhythm - for the body, not for sight!

Some will find this overly pedantic, but I think the only way to be sure you’re accurate, especially if learning 3x4 for the first time, is to count it in 12 to start with.
Assuming left hand in 3 and right hand in 4:
1 both hands
2 nothing
3 nothing
4 right hand
5 left hand
6 nothing
7 right
8 nothing
9 left
10 right
11 nothing
12 nothing
1 both
Etc.
This way you develop a sense of proportion: when does one hand play exactly between the other hand’s notes, when is it closer to one of those notes than the other, where are the longer pauses.

After a while you get used to the sound and can start counting it in 1. And when you are very experienced you can hear the triplets evenly and the 16ths evenly too, at the same time. No one counts 3x4 in 12 while performing. But I do think counting in the first learning stages allows us to know when it’s exactly right, instead of just sort of close.