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Hello,
I'm currently learning (first month) to play on a keyboard that I currently own - a Roland Juno DI which I bought few years ago and never had the time to learn.
My main goal right now is to learn basic piano skills, learn chords and basically learn the basics. I also want to get into a small hobby-band to do covers for the eighties. I do afraid from getting intensive learning on the Juno DI but then get bad habits when I will buy a digital piano.
So I thought about just buying a digital piano and start from there... and still can enjoy the Juno DI when needed
The options I have took into account are: Roland HP605 (Most Expensive) Yamaha YDP-163 Arius
Or go for the portable ones that also gives me synth capabilities and a lots of patches and still can be used as a digital piano - with just monitor added:
Roland Juno DS88 Roland FA-08
I do like the idea of having portable equipment which then can be easily moved and also be taken with me anywhere for practice and also get to enjoy from "all the worlds" - Synth-Arranger type with a digital piano combo.
Your opinions would be gladly valued.
Regards
Last edited by David Macob; 11/06/17 04:57 PM.
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To some extent, the answer depends on how freely you can spend your money.
If you can buy the HP605 (which is very nice), and not sell the Juno Di, and not live on spaghetti for a year, you'll have the best of both worlds:
. . . Practice piano (with weighted keys and good tone) on the HP605;
. . . Carry the Juno Di to gigs.
IMHO, it's better to practice on a weighted action, and then play a synth action, than the other way around.
Practicing on a synth action, and then switching to a weighted action, your fingers will _not_ be ready, and your technique will probably be all wrong. I got my DP when I pulled a synth-action Korg X5D out of storage, and started practicing on it. I realized that whatever effort I put into evening-out my scale playing, and improve my technique, would be useless when I played a weighted action.
PS -- I haven't played a Juno Di. The review on VintageSynth.com is quite favorable. It sounds like a very sophisticated sample-player, with good samples and factory patches. And it weighs less than 12 pounds.
. Charles --------------------------- PX-350 / Roland Gaia / Pianoteq
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I'm currently learning (first month) to play on a keyboard that I currently own - a Roland Juno DI .... Your opinions would be gladly valued.
Frankly, I wouldn't worry about getting another keyboard right now. Devote your time and energy to learning, practicing, and enjoying the music you're making along the way. Bach played on keyboards (and pedals) that would make most any modern day musician cringe - "bad habits" by baroque standards included - but that didn't stop him one bit. You've got more firepower in that Juno than was imaginable in the '80s - so apply your interest and motivation and start learning to play what you like hearing. You're all set! Have fun - OneWatt
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Most pianists who also play in bands have a piano and a keyboard. It's really hard to find everything in one. So if you can manage, get a piano to practice on at home to avoid those bad habits and to keep your "chops" up when you are playing the keyboard.
The thing about getting a DP with the synth sounds is that it's a bit harder to play strings, organ synth sounds on a piano action. Not impossible, and you can get used to anything really, but a keyboard action suits these sounds a bit better.
You may want to add to your list the Casio PX-160 and Kawai ES-110. If you can try them out and compare with the Yamaha, then go with the one you like the best. They're all good in that price range.
private piano/voice teacher FT
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If you can buy the HP605 (which is very nice), and not sell the Juno Di, and not live on spaghetti for a year, you'll have the best of both worlds:
Yes... I do have the passion to buy the best DP and I did save up money for that purpose but after thinking about it again and reading here, I think it might be best if I go for a beginner digital piano that would give me both of the worlds - portability & home-use. Frankly, I wouldn't worry about getting another keyboard right now. Devote your time and energy to learning, practicing, and enjoying the music you're making along the way.
My passion is too high to stay without a piano action Most pianists who also play in bands have a piano and a keyboard. It's really hard to find everything in one. So if you can manage, get a piano to practice on at home to avoid those bad habits and to keep your "chops" up when you are playing the keyboard.
The thing about getting a DP with the synth sounds is that it's a bit harder to play strings, organ synth sounds on a piano action. Not impossible, and you can get used to anything really, but a keyboard action suits these sounds a bit better.
You may want to add to your list the Casio PX-160 and Kawai ES-110. If you can try them out and compare with the Yamaha, then go with the one you like the best. They're all good in that price range. That is a good advice and I think I'm going to take it! I will forget about the synth-related DPs and will go to the shop to try the basic DPs that you mentioned. I would prefer the Casio/Kawai since the Yamaha YDP-143/163 Arius is not portable and I see that the Casio & Kawai have stand&pedal options like this: Which is a great option for me! In order for me to get into the Band I want, they require me to learn to play these songs: I love Rock n roll I'm a bitch - Meredith Brooks Radiohead - Creep Tina Turner - Simply the Best Maria - Blondie The Beatles - Come together (Which be the easiest for me since I started practicing boogie at first lol) If anyone have any other comments for me, I'm always happy to hear Thank you very much
Last edited by David Macob; 11/07/17 02:49 AM.
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I have a Kawai ES8 with a "furniture stand", very easy to take the slab off when portability is needed. And while being a beginner myself, I find the action on it quite agreeable. Not sure if it ticks all the boxes for you but I'm very pleased with my purchase (even though I will be eating spaghetti for a while still ).
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I have a Kawai ES8 with a "furniture stand", very easy to take the slab off when portability is needed. And while being a beginner myself, I find the action on it quite agreeable. Not sure if it ticks all the boxes for you but I'm very pleased with my purchase (even though I will be eating spaghetti for a while still ). LOL, well I'm on Ketogenic diet now so... I'll skip the spaghetti anyway I think the ES8 would be over-kill for my non-existent piano skills but that would be a low-term investment I guess ... I'm going at friday to a few piano stores to see myself some DPs and to get a wider prespective.
Last edited by David Macob; 11/07/17 05:13 AM.
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Don't sell yourself short, man! I bought the ES8 having never touched a piano in my life. Your level of commitment seems to be pretty high so if you can stretch your finances that far, you will be getting an instrument that you'll have a hard time finding a physical limit to for years if not decades to come. I highly enjoy it and it's a really nice piece of gear. Coming from a guitar background, I've had my share of both crappy instruments and great instruments and compared to other pianos (DP or AP), this one is a fine instrument that you can't really go wrong with. EDIT: not into it myself (yet) but KCKO!
Last edited by MuddyFox; 11/07/17 06:50 AM.
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You just opened my apetite.. ES8 is in the same price range of Roland RD-300NX .... It fits my budget so there is no problem. But there are so many DPs when you go into that price range which is very easy to be lost
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Haven't tried that exact model but what I did try in that price bracket, Kawai was the nicest one overall (especially with the stand that doesn't add any depth or width to it but you get a very nice music stand and integrated pedals), both sound and feel wise. This is naturally deep into "YMMV" territory and what fits one won't fit another, but even sight unseen, I doubt you'd be dissatisfied with the ES8.
Of course, try as many DPs as you can, cheaper and more expensive ones and even some APs for comparison. Haptics are very important for a beginner, methinks...
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Yep... You're right, I'll try them all and get some basic concept...
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And also, it's common sense really but sometimes folks need positive reinforcement so I'm just gonna say it... Don't get put off by the fact that your repertoire isn't extensive. The worst thing you can do (and I've been there with guitars ) is to be too intimidated to try out various instruments because you feel like you don't know what you're doing or what you're looking for in the first place. Even if you can only do one-fingered rendition of Happy Birthday, do it with conviction on even the most expensive piano you can lay your hands on. Even without previous exposure to an instrument you'll get some sense of comparison between them. You may not be knowledgeable enough to feel the nuances but you will get a broad picture of what feels good to YOU, which is equally, if not more so, important to a beginner player than anything you read on the interwebz about the various weighed actions and such. Any instrument may get rave reviews across the board but if it feels or sounds off-putting to you, you aren't going to play it once you bring it home as much as you would an instrument that "fits you like a glove" and is in some minor cork-sniffing way "inferior" to the top-of-the-list one. Learning piano is difficult as it is, now you need to make the process as enjoyable as possible!
Last edited by MuddyFox; 11/07/17 01:15 PM.
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I have to throw this in ...
It sounds like your intent is to get to a "band" situation as soon as possible.
If your role is going to be playing background chords LOUD or soft for the band through an external speaker system .....
I think what you have is probably fine for the time being.
You have no idea if you are even going to be able to do this or how long it will take you to get up to speed.
I would slow down with the "buying things" and start "learning things" on the keyboard you have and see how that goes.
Good Luck to you
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
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I have to agree with dmd, spend more on the learning part. If you want an 88 key that with can get you playing, then get something that won't bee too expensive. Like a casio PX-5S it is going for $799 right now and has a lot of very good sounds and the action is quite serviceable. Its not the best action but its also far from the worst. Personally I prefer it over the Roland FA-08 keys and I own one. Think of it this way, would you buy a Ferrari to learn how to drive? While a Ferrari is an awesome car, look how many people with more money than brains bought one and smashed it within 6 months? It would have been better to save the money and get professional driving lessons. While buying a keyboard is not a live and death situation, the logic still applies. Learning to play is where your priority should initially lie.
Many players are using the PX-5S because it is very economical solution that works for them. There are several local bands here the are using it. Then spend the money on lessons or a DVD based course anything that will get you playing.
Last edited by Kbeaumont; 11/07/17 02:14 PM.
A long long time ago, I can still remember How that music used to make me smile....
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I have to throw this in ...
It sounds like your intent is to get to a "band" situation as soon as possible.
If your role is going to be playing background chords LOUD or soft for the band through an external speaker system .....
I think what you have is probably fine for the time being.
You have no idea if you are even going to be able to do this or how long it will take you to get up to speed.
I would slow down with the "buying things" and start "learning things" on the keyboard you have and see how that goes.
Good Luck to you
Yes your statement is quite true... Though I really don't want to waste my time with learning piano skills and then find out that all my learning was abit wrong due to non-weighted keys. For example I practice some basic boogie and some simple chords and I know if I'll try to do the same on a piano action, I might find it really hard compared to the keyboard. If the Juno-DI will do the job for now, I can forget about the whole idea and just stay with it. Since I'm not experienced, its harder for me to find the right answer. I have to agree with dmd, spend more on the learning part. If you want an 88 key that with can get you playing, then get something that won't bee too expensive. Like a casio PX-5S it is going for $799 right now and has a lot of very good sounds and the action is quite serviceable. Its not the best action but its also far from the worst. Personally I prefer it over the Roland FA-08 keys and I own one. Think of it this way, would you buy a Ferrari to learn how to drive? While a Ferrari is an awesome car, look how many people with more money than brains bought one and smashed it within 6 months? It would have been better to save the money and get professional driving lessons. While buying a keyboard is not a live and death situation, the logic still applies. Learning to play is where your priority should initially lie.
Many players are using the PX-5S because it is very economical solution that works for them. There are several local bands here the are using it. Then spend the money on lessons or a DVD based course anything that will get you playing.
The problem is that Casio PX-5S is not so cheap in my country, its about $1100 (I guess I can get a $100-$200 discount, I didn't go to a store yet and offered counter price) Casio PX-160 would cost about $600 here. Kawai ES110 would cost about $850-900 Roland RD-300NX/Kawai ES8 would cost about $1700-1900 Again, I'm sure the price is open to discussion since not many people buy these equipments here. Thank you for your help ..
Last edited by David Macob; 11/07/17 03:06 PM.
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The problem is that Casio PX-5S is not so cheap in my country, its about $1100 (I guess I can get a $100-$200 discount, I didn't go to a store yet and offered counter price) Casio PX-160 would cost about $600 here. Kawai ES110 would cost about $850-900 Roland RD-300NX/Kawai ES8 would cost about $1700-1900
Again, I'm sure the price is open to discussion since not many people buy these equipments here.
Well, you will have to figure all that out and try to make the best decision. I know nothing about the Casio PX-160. Other than that, I believe everything you mention here will be fine for your initial keyboard.
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
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So basically from your experience, the Juno-DI will be ok for now?
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Not from MY experience.
I am only suggesting that because from what you have told us .... it appears that you just need something which will allow you to play some chords and a few notes here and there as accompaniment .... with not much concern for "technique".
Once you have accomplished that ....
Then, you will have a little better idea of what you want in you next keyboard .... for the band .... or for your personal pleasure and/or improvement as a player.
There will still be plenty of time to develop as a pianist ... if that is what you want.
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
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I totally agree with you and I thank you for opening my mind about this. I'll keep my learning and wait a little bit until I grasp some of this before jumping into the water.
I'll just buy a normal headphones and stop using my IPhone headphones for the Juno-DI.
Regards
Last edited by David Macob; 11/07/17 04:16 PM.
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True dat, DMD... I agree that if the band situation is your main focus at the moment, pretty much anything in slab form will do, weighted keys or otherwise. If you foresee actually wanting to go deeper into the whole piano thing (both DP and who knows, maybe even AP down the road), you will be needing weighted keys and you will be wanting your fingers to be able to play them. There is however a personal aspect to this (as is true with many things in life), not only an intellectual one! If you have the money, there's nothing wrong with buying say a nice BMW or a Mercedes for learning how to drive. The aforementioned Ferrari might indeed be overkill for real life driving school but ES8 is certainly not a Ferrari (I'm guessing a NV10 or something of the sort would be) and certainly not priced as something that you'd need to feel guilty for considering as your first DP. If you try it, end up liking it more than other choices out there and can swing it financially, I still say go for it. Yes, a fool and his money are easily parted as they say, but at the end of the day, it's you who's gonna be tickling the keys and you might as well do it on a decent piece of hardware if it's not preventing you from actually, you know, eating... I've tried the frugal and "logical" approach with the guitar and IMHO (and I'm not stating this as an universal truth, just my experience), it wasn't worth it. Once I got my paws on a decent instrument the whole music experience turned for the better really quickly and to this day I'm beating myself up for not getting a good instrument that's a physical joy to play straight away. Nothing was gained by learning the ropes on a crappy instrument, at all. If anything, I'm beyond surprised that I didn't give up there and then. Again, not saying that's gonna be the case with you or anyone else, just my two cents' worth...
Last edited by MuddyFox; 11/07/17 04:30 PM.
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