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I grew up with pianos which didn't have the sostenuto pedal so never got to know how to use it. By how I mean physically. Which foot do you use? Can you use it with the sustain pedal? Is it a bit like playing an organ?

My searches have so far left me with no clues, but I am sure all you experts here will be able to put me right and enable me to make a quantum leap in my playing - I am using quantum in the correct sense here!

Traditionally, I think the right foot is what many use. However, I usually use my left foot. I do use it in conjunction with the sustain pedal at times, depending on the piano. It works well on some pianos, not so much on others. i.e. If you take over sost notes with the sustain pedal, you will get an audible thump on some pianos when you finally release the dampers. This happens on several brands, including Steinways (or at least all the Steinways I've tried it on). There are a lot of brands, including some low end brands where this does not happen.

HTH

You might get better answers in the Pianist Corner, but here are my views.

You can use either foot, depending on which other pedal you are using while you use it.

The method of using the pedal is to play some notes, press the sostenuto pedal, and the dampers will be held off the string on those notes. This can involve split-second timing to make sure that you are only holding the dampers that you want.

On most pianos, if you press the damper pedal, and then the sostenuto pedal, all of the dampers will be held off the strings. Releasing the sostenuto pedal will result in a loud thump, unless you are still holding the damper pedal when you do it. If you use the sostenuto pedal first, there should be no problem using the damper pedal.

I once had a piano where the sostenuto pedal would work as it should even if the damper pedal was used. That takes some very exact regulation.

Last week I tuned an older Yamaha U3 with a sostenuto pedal. I noticed that if I press the sostenuto pedal, the touch became much firmer. I adjusted the pedal so that effect was minimized. That can happen with other pianos, like older Steinway grands.

The sostenuto pedal is a memory bank, and when working properly, will hold any played notes' dampers off the string until the pedal is released. The noise that comes from release when the sostenuto is holding all the dampers up can be lessened by a slower release, just like the damper pedal, thought I am not sure what musical use there is to have the sostenuto hold all the dampers offl. A sudden release on either will make more noise than a slower release.

I've had two pieces where I tried to use sostenuto pedal. Both required sustain pedal use while holding the sostenuto pedal (after activating it). In one of them, about 20% of the time, the sustain pedal use would cancel out the sostenuto "memory" -- so all notes were undamped after lifting up the sustain pedal while still holding the sostenuto pedal -- which sounded TERRIBLE. In the other piece, it worked OK, but I think the reason was that in that piece only one note was required to be held by the sostenuto pedal. My teacher told me that you just can not rely on the sostenuto pedal, because the unreliability that I experienced is typical, and when you combine that with the uncertainties of playing different/unfamiliar pianos in recitals/performances, you just don't know what you're going to get. So for that first piece, I found a fingering strategy that, though awkward, didn't require the sostenuto pedal, and did my recital that way.

I was taught that it really didn't matter which foot was used and this from a piano teacher who came out of Julliard in 1925 (that lesson was the 70's). I was also taught that the purpose of the pedal was to allow you to hold certain notes so that you could free up both hands for portato (sp?) and staccato passages while holding the sustaining notes. Using the sustain pedal and the sostenuto pedal at both times was frowned upon by Mr. Shotts, and I was instructed in no uncertain terms to avoid doing so. Basically, my advice is to just get in there and spend time trying different approaches until you find one that you and your teacher like. If it sounds good, it is good, as Duke Ellington said.

When installing a new or rebuilt action into a piano, the dampers go in last with the sostenuto the final part of the installation. The dampers must be regulated so the sostenuto tabs on the damper flanges are in line with each other. Often the dampers with trichord felt settle deeper into the strings shortly after installation. This results in the tabs falling out of line. If the damper regulation is not touched up, a couple of days after installation, a once well regulated sostenuto will no longer be there. This is why so many pianos have ill-working sostenuto pedals.

When you are holding dampers with the sostenuto, you must not release the sostenuto pedal at the same time you are depressing the damper pedal or depressing keys, (unless the keys you are depressing are the ones being "stored" by the sostenuto), this causes the sostenuto rod to collide with rising dampers. Always release notes held by the sostenuto when you are releasing the damper pedal and/or keys.

+1. Sostenuto is an idea in limbo since the 1870's. Not a total failure, as many new pianos have it, not a real success, because many fine pianos don't have it to begin with. It's pretty much the last thing that piano owning venues spend money to maintain. For the vast majority, the best idea is fuggedaboutit.

I guess I am the odd one out. I like and use the Sostenuto regularly. It helps to clear out the significant and sustained resonance of my BB at certain times when voicing a complex line.

Unlike Ed’s recommended technique, which I have no doubt is necessary for many pianos, In my experience, I have never thought about how or when to play or release notes. As well, I use both Sostenuto and Damper simultaneously all the time.

In Debussy’s Claire de lune, I use Sostenuto and una corda with the left foot on the first chord of bars 15 and 17, and then Damper to control resonance in the succeeding chords of those measures. I do this on some, but not all, pianos that have Sostenuto. It depends on the piano and the environment.

I have little difficulty using a sostenuto pedal when required. I was taught to use the left foot for it and the una corda pedal, simultaneously when required. I believe that method is standard. I have never noticed a particular problem with releasing damper pedals while using it. Some damper pedals are noisy much of the time, even when used alone. They need regulating, I think.

I am not sure what I will do if the music requires using my Airturn pedal, sostenuto and una corda. I can do it with the una corda. I try to time my page turns carefully even in that case. Maybe it would be better to memorize!

I've played and recorded Cage's '"Music of Changes" which requires a very intricate interplay of all the pedals, as well as re-taking notes with the fingers out of the sostenuto, then re-applying. On a well-regulated piano, there's never been any problem arising from when to release either the damper or sostenuto. In this piece I use the right foot for both sost. and damper.

[quote=proutIn Debussy’s Claire de lune, I use Sostenuto and una corda with the left foot on the first chord of bars 15 and 17, and then Damper to control resonance in the succeeding chords of those measures. I do this on some, but not all, pianos that have Sostenuto. It depends on the piano and the environment.[/quote]

I tried this and can see that it would have made a difference on my Roland HP7 which had a very short decay, but on the current one I can't really tell the difference between using the Sostenuto and Sustain, but maybe it is a matter of technique or how the piece is played.

If you use the same foot to actuate sostenuto and damper you will never be depressing the sostenuto while releasing the damper pedal, or vice-versa.

No using both feet.

Depends on how agile your feet are.

In Clair de lune, at Tempo rubato (bar 15), depress the sostenuto pedal (using your left foot) when you play the LH E flats, and hold it down, while using your right foot to do legato pedalling on the quaver chords, i.e. changing pedal with each chord change.

Play the same bar, using only the sustain pedal, and hear the difference: if you change pedal every time the chords change, you lose the pedal point (the low dotted minim E flats). If you don't change pedal, you get a blur. The best solution is to do half-pedal.

This raises a couple of interesting questions.
Since we know that Debussy's piano did not have a sostenuto pedal, we must ask ourselves whether 1) if he had had one would he have used it and would he have indicated its use in the score, or 2) since we have the sostenuto, should we use it because we can and because we think it enhances our interpretation of these measures?
The other question which is referred to in Willard Palmer's editorial comments to the Alfred Edition of the Suite bergamasque, is whether or not successive chords over a pedal-point in Debussy's writing need necessarily involve pedal changes or whether a certain amount of overlapping is not only permitted but actually intended. The distinction to be observed, of course, is that between "overlapping" chords and a solid blur.

For me, I am not convinced that the sostenuto for the low E-flats and damper changes on each chord is the way to go but rather, as bennevis has suggested, some half pedaling which will allow the E-flats to continue to resonate but no full pedal changes to intentionally clarify the upper register chord passage.

I would not say that either way is right or wrong; it's more a question of how each of us feels the character of these (and similar) measures. On my piano at least, a firm but piano touch on the low E-flats and a careful pp playing of the chords seems to work without undue blurring and a satisfactory sustain of the blending harmonies.

In a similarly conceived passage in the Menuet (measures 31, 33, 34 and similar), I was changing pedal with each chord change, but my teacher (Russian trained) convinced me that I need not change the pedal when the harmony of the upper voices changed if I carefully "pointed" the bass C, kept the inner voices to a minimum volume and clearly brought out the upper line.

Regards,

Well if Debussy didn't have a sostenuto pedal then that settles it for me. And in the end it all depends on how it sounds irrespective of how that sound is produced.

By 1850, the several French piano makers had versions of the sostenuto pedal. So Debussy would have encountered it from his childhood on. Just because his personal piano lacked one is no indication he would never use it. Maybe he just liked that piano in particular or he got it for free. Who knows?

He may have encountered some of those early experimental sostenutos, but what percentage of pianos at that time would have had them? Certainly not enough that a composer would rely on it being available to all performers.