Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum wide fingers - teaching challenge

Hi all,
I have an adult (male) student who has wide fingers. When he plays chords that require extending fingers 2, 3 or 4 onto white keys between two black keys, it's a problem for him. His fingers nudge the adjacent black keys down, which of course is undesirable. Neither of us see any solution other than curling his fingers under to stay away from the black keys. (Playing near the tips of the white keys doesn't help, since his fingers are a bit long and still need to curl to avoid the problem.)

I've never encountered this before, but it doesn't seem like a very unusual possibility. Does anyone have better solutions to help him play chords more easily/properly?

Thanks!

Men with wide fingers have to adduct the wrists in order to press white keys between black. (Rotate right hand clockwise, left hand counter clockwise.) With practice it soon becomes habitual.

In some cases you can get by with that twisting of the wrist and playing with the outboard sides of the fingers. In my case it only works a little, and for the most part, I just have to do things like going to C7/E or C7/G instead of C7, because my L2 won't fit between Gb and G#. Or just drop the 5 from the chord.

Try to re-finger, if that doesn't work, re-arrange. Don't expect to be able to do exactly what someone else with better hands can do.

The only real solution is to omit some notes. If you can't reasonably re-distribute the notes between hands, then it's time to drop notes.

I'd avoid twisting unless playing easy chord pieces.

There may be some pieces that will work fine, avoiding certain key signatures and certain types of pieces can help. Also, not every piano has the same spacing. A little bit of search could help him find a piano known for a wider spacing - even a millimeter or two can make a huge difference.

Just a point of usage in English : 'adduct' is an unknown word outside medical usage. More normal words would be 'slant' or 'twist'. My fingers are quite slim, and I still occasionally catch a black note when playing a white note between them.

I think that the key widths became standardised when people had smaller hands than today. I once tried playing a piano-accordian, and found it nearly impossible as the keys were even narrower. My muscle memory of where notes should be was completely different, and it was one of the more frustrating moments in life !

My father tried a few piano lessons when I was starting out. But his fingers were too broad and I think that wrists would have been that flexible either. He soon gave up. If your pupil is keen enough and willing to experiment he may be able to achieve something.

Yes, thank you for correction. I just wanted to be precise, not to let anybody confuse twisting of the hand and twisting of the forearm.


I totally agree. That concerns grand's height too. I have to move apart my knees sitting at a grand till I was 12 or 13.


Everyone does. My fingers are not slim, and I guess I catch black notes more often than you do. For men it's really better to play outside spaces between black keys where possible. But I highly recommend against dropping off notes, I think it is the worst idea.

Achieve something! There are many virtuoso pianists with thick fingers. Everything is achievable with technique adjustment.

I can tell you that the guy who is now considered the best entertaining pianist in Russia is huge! His hands are so large and fingers are so thick, that I was shocked when I first saw them live. Nevertheless he plays everything and does it brilliantly.

Every hand is different which is why it is important to get both the fingering and the hand and wrist movements sorted out. Easier for some than others but what works for one person won't work for another. I still have a piece of music from 60 years ago where my piano teacher had marked fingering involving 'twisting' the 4th and 5th fingers 'over' each other, despite the written fingering being different and for me 'correct'. Obviously worked for him but impossible for me even though I was much younger than him. Hopefully piano teachers nowadays listen to their pupils and look at their hands to see what is or isn't possible!

I've seen it used frequently in sports related things, yoga, posture training, and also frequently in music when it comes to physical movement. The four I've seen the most often in music (incl. piano) are adduct, abduct, pronate, supinate. I'd feel uncomfortable about "twist" as there is twisting which is bad. Of course words are a problem, period. It is better to see, to demonstrate or have demonstrated, and even to have a teacher touch the hand at times to guide.

You'd rather twist and turn the hands to fit all the notes??? You're asking for an injury. Even when you curl the fingers inwardly to play on the white keys, it could potentially lead to an injury if done repeatedly.

The wrist is naturally adducted every time a pianist has to play wide chord with thumb on black key. I'm not talking about some weird rare movement, I'm talking about very simple thing. A person with thick fingers simply should play every chord in that hand position, like he is going to play wide chord with thumb on black key. With practice it becomes a second nature.

The point is that a finger is not round, it's always thinner on the side, and the fingertip on the side is even more thin.

On the other hand, when you tell someone with thick fingers to miss notes it's like telling, "yes, you can play, but you will forever be second-grade pianist." I think it's very discouraging. And there is really no reason to do it.

We clearly have very different values. I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with dropping a note or two, if the player's physique necessitates it. The same could be said about people with small hands--I'm certainly not going to force them to play all the notes in a big chord. There are times when the player's physical limitations will play a major role in the repertoire being chosen.

If your wrist twists whenever you play a large chord with the thumb on a black key, then you and I have very different ways of playing piano. I'll leave it at that.

OP here. Obviously, there's disagreement about which adjustments are recommended, but I thought it might be helpful to list what the various recommendations are.

Recommendations for Chordal Playing with Broad Fingers (NOT in any recommended order):
1. Move laterally (try adducting or abducting from the thumb), so that fingers are placed slightly “sideways” on the keys. Risk of injury may be minimized by moving the elbow laterally and keeping the wrist in alignment.
2. Prepare the notes: set the finger in position before playing, for precise placement.
3. Forward momentum: aim for a forward push rather than (only) a downward strike. The finger moves down at an angle, so that horizontal (forward) movement balances the downward movement.
4. Use alternate fingerings: finger 3 is rarely used between black keys. Ex., use 1-2-4 to play Eb major in root position and D major in 1st inversion.
5. Keep a high arch in the hand, so that white keys are struck with the tips rather than pads of fingers.
6. As a last resort, omit some chord notes.

Clearly, many great pianists have large hands - perhaps the majority of earlier jazz pianists! Trial and error, perhaps.

Then there is this...The 4 fingered pianist. A video I show all my students who might feel limited because of hand size, a missing finger, etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=12&v=2FSnalrPYpc

That's me. And it hasn't stopped me. I just arrange and finger things to fit my limitations.

Exactly. All that any of us can do is the best with what we've been given. If that means adjusting the score to suit, then so be it. I've made arrangements for my students who have small hands or other limitations. Why the heck not? If someone refuses to listen to your playing because you dropped a note in a chord, then they probably miss out on a lot of enjoyable things in life.

When I was young I thought that playing the same piece over and over again was boring. Now I find that every time I play a piece it is different. It's all about interpretation and rearranging notes/chords so that one can play the piece should, if done properly, in no way diminish the end result. Unless you are a Chopin listening to Listz playing your pieces - though there might have been a bit of jealousy there.

Incidentally, listening and watching the 4 finger pianist got me to thinking that sometimes the other fingers get in the way.