2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
28 members (beet31425, CyberGene, Boboulus, Greta99, Harpuia, almo82, Caeso2010, Beowulf, HadesPiano, 7 invisible), 375 guests, and 411 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
kpembrook #2682045 10/14/17 10:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,404
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,404

Originally Posted by kpembrook

ETA are not scientific instruments objectively reporting data. They are devices that process the data and provide a readout based on the internal processing program. Contents and function of the program (how it does what it does) is not transparent but proprietary.


This morning I found this, a very detailed description by David Carpenter. The Sanderson and the Reyburn methods also are addressed at the beginning:

https://www.google.sr/patents/US20040025672

How far those ETA have progressed since then, I am not able to say, especially for what concerns the tuning of unisons, bass and trebles.

At [0199] we read:

"In the preferred embodiment, to determine the tuning corrections that will benefit the most important intervals, an interval prioritization table is set by weighting various interval types for each note in the piano, for example, as shown in Table 10..."...

I am not sure I understand that. Could someone help and say what we should understand?

Regards, a.c.
.


alfredo
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
alfredo capurso #2682078 10/14/17 11:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,620
E
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,620
Frequency and pitch are not the same thing. Pitch is the way humans describe certain frequencies, (usually within a musical construct), so it takes a human auditory response to characterize it.

Measuring anything always entails error. No measurement is absolute.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
alfredo capurso #2682130 10/14/17 02:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 152
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 152
Originally Posted by alfredo capurso


"In the preferred embodiment, to determine the tuning corrections that will benefit the most important intervals, an interval prioritization table is set by weighting various interval types for each note in the piano, for example, as shown in Table 10..."...

I am not sure I understand that. Could someone help and say what we should understand?

.


Each note of the piano forms an interval with every other note of the piano, but for purposes of piano tuning, some intervals are more important than others, so the various intervals are prioritized.

Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
Kent Swafford #2682147 10/14/17 04:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,404
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,404
Originally Posted by Kent Swafford
Originally Posted by alfredo capurso


"In the preferred embodiment, to determine the tuning corrections that will benefit the most important intervals, an interval prioritization table is set by weighting various interval types for each note in the piano, for example, as shown in Table 10..."...

I am not sure I understand that. Could someone help and say what we should understand?

.


Each note of the piano forms an interval with every other note of the piano, but for purposes of piano tuning, some intervals are more important than others, so the various intervals are prioritized.


Thanks, Kent, I appreciate.

I find that feature intriguing, as it involves the way we listen to and evaluate a tuning, beat perception relative to some "important" intervals and the sense of "in tune" as a whole.

Is the user enabled to modify the way intervals are prioritized?
.


alfredo
Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
alfredo capurso #2682156 10/14/17 05:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 152
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 152
Originally Posted by alfredo capurso


Is the user enabled to modify the way intervals are prioritized?



Yes, to a limited extent. In the style files, three intervals can be chosen in each octave and weighted in relation to each other.

However, overall, the user is given quite complete control of the amount of stretch through the scale.

Last edited by Kent Swafford; 10/14/17 06:27 PM.
Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
Kent Swafford #2682159 10/14/17 05:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,404
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,404
Originally Posted by Kent Swafford
Originally Posted by alfredo capurso


Is the user enabled to modify the way intervals are prioritized?



I don't think so. Too complex. However, that said, the user is given quite complete control of the amount of stretch through the scale.



Complete control of the amount of stretch is (IMO) useful. When I think about partials matching, I realize I have no idea about which partials end up playing the most important role in my aural tunings, never figured that out. As for intervals, meaning "important" intervals, I wonder what the result would be with a different priority table.

There, they use this:

Octave Octave Octave Fifth Fifth Fourth Third Third Tenth
..4:2 .....2:1 .....4:1 ...6:4...3:2 ..4:3 ....5:4 ..6:5 ...5:2

Edit: And I wonder if that table was "assumed" or what.

Last edited by alfredo capurso; 10/14/17 05:44 PM.

alfredo
Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
alfredo capurso #2682169 10/14/17 06:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 152
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 152
I have corrected my previous post.

Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
Kent Swafford #2682170 10/14/17 06:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,404
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,404


Originally Posted by Kent Swafford
I have corrected my previous post.


Thanks.

Originally Posted by Kent Swafford
Originally Posted by alfredo capurso


Is the user enabled to modify the way intervals are prioritized?



Yes, to a limited extent. In the style files, three intervals can be chosen in each octave and weighted in relation to each other.

However, overall, the user is given quite complete control of the amount of stretch through the scale.


Meaning that those three intervals are within the octave, that they cannot be wider than an octave?
.


alfredo
Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
alfredo capurso #2682193 10/14/17 08:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 152
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 152
Originally Posted by alfredo capurso


Meaning that those three intervals are within the octave, that they cannot be wider than an octave?



No. The styles are organized by octave, but the individual intervals that are referenced can be various coincident partial pairs of octaves, 12ths, double-octaves, triple-octaves, etc., depending upon which part of the scale is being tuned.

Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
Fazioli-Yang #2685745 10/29/17 01:24 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,269
D
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,269
Fazioli-Yang, have you made any decisions on the basis of the replies here? Did you decide to go for a particular tuning software? How is it working out for you?

Re: How far has ETD progressed ?
Fazioli-Yang #2685932 10/30/17 11:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
F
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
F
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by David Boyce
Fazioli-Yang, have you made any decisions on the basis of the replies here? Did you decide to go for a particular tuning software? How is it working out for you?

I am going to try Easy Piano app for sure because it's just $20. I need to buy a hammer before I can try it out.

And many thanks to That Guy who provided a really good update on the subject of this thread.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
KDP110 vs. cn series/clavinova
by almo82 - 08/11/20 02:58 AM
Piano Practice/Exercises For Adult Learners
by onaiplatigid - 08/11/20 01:34 AM
1892 Broadwood & Sons Grand
by shaycave - 08/10/20 11:11 PM
Kontakt spaz attack
by MacMacMac - 08/10/20 10:52 PM
Talk me out of Embertone Walker 1955
by Harpuia - 08/10/20 09:51 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,838
Posts2,990,456
Members98,099
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4