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How far has ETD progressed ? #2680701
10/09/17 12:35 AM
10/09/17 12:35 AM
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Fazioli-Yang Offline OP
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The invention of smart phone with the ability to run apps seems to have removed completely ETDs that come in the form of a hardware. I remember Verituner used to have a hardware and the software was just an option. Now Verituner has done away with hardware completely.

How far have ETDs progressed ? I recall back then TuneLab was the most economical tuning software. To current TuneLab users, how far has this software progressed compared to 8 years ago ?

FY

Last edited by Fazioli-Yang; 10/09/17 12:36 AM.
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Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2680702
10/09/17 12:43 AM
10/09/17 12:43 AM
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Miguel Rey Online content
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What about Tunic OnlyPure. Appears to be the only ET that requires no set up besides selecting the pitch, everything else calculated automatically.




Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Miguel Rey] #2680733
10/09/17 04:18 AM
10/09/17 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
What about Tunic OnlyPure. Appears to be the only ET that requires no set up besides selecting the pitch, everything else calculated automatically.

I note that the automatic version is more than twice the price of TuneLab.

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Miguel Rey] #2680767
10/09/17 09:42 AM
10/09/17 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
What about Tunic OnlyPure. Appears to be the only ET that requires no set up besides selecting the pitch, everything else calculated automatically.


Easy Piano Tuner refines the tuning curve as you add notes, so there is no need to enter a bunch of test notes in advance of tuning. Check out the Android version here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.willeypianotuning.toneanalyzer&hl=en


Bob Runyan, RPT
Chico, CA
www.runyanpiano.com
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Miguel Rey] #2680787
10/09/17 11:29 AM
10/09/17 11:29 AM
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Orange County, CA
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Verituner works the same way - just start tuning on A, follow an aural sequence, and it creates the tuning as you go.


Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2680794
10/09/17 11:47 AM
10/09/17 11:47 AM
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So it would appear that quit a few ET's have gotten much easier or limiting the need to fiddle so perhaps it would come down to price, user interface and convenience. Reyburn seems to be commanding the highest and Easy Tuner the lowest.




Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Miguel Rey] #2680801
10/09/17 12:09 PM
10/09/17 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
So it would appear that quit a few ET's have gotten much easier or limiting the need to fiddle so perhaps it would come down to price, user interface and convenience. Reyburn seems to be commanding the highest and Easy Tuner the lowest.

The cheapest ETD is still the ‘ETD’ - Ear Tuning Device’ - Works like a charm, produces an infinite number of temperaments, requires no measuremet of iH, and is free.

Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2680808
10/09/17 12:22 PM
10/09/17 12:22 PM
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Fazioli-Yang Offline OP
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What about Sanderson Accu-Tuner ? I can see the ads flashing on the right hand side of this page.

Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2680954
10/09/17 11:09 PM
10/09/17 11:09 PM
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That Guy Offline
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Quote
The cheapest ETD is still the ‘ETD’ - Ear Tuning Device’ - Works like a charm, produces an infinite number of temperaments, requires no measuremet of iH, and is free.


Free? I don't think so. They're attached to this organic thing that ya gotta feed, bathe, exercise, take to the doctor and do a whole host of other things for. My ETA (Electronic Tuning App) just needs some electricity and update now and then. cool


"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2680955
10/09/17 11:20 PM
10/09/17 11:20 PM
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That Guy Offline
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Quote
To current TuneLab users, how far has this software progressed compared to 8 years ago ?


Now, to actually answer your original question. TuneLab has improved a lot. You can sample as many notes as you want and it's using a different type of algorithm now. It's available for Android, iPhone and Windows. I'd encourage you to check out the free demo version here: TuneLab. It's fully functional. The only limitation is that it pauses every 14 notes for 2 minutes.

Easy Piano Tuner, that someone else mentioned, is also capable software. For only $20 it's worth checking out. It'll get the job done.

I also have Tunic OnlyPure and it's really incredible. Very simple to use but difficult to master. It will really challenge your hammer technique because it's so precise.


"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: That Guy] #2680956
10/09/17 11:22 PM
10/09/17 11:22 PM
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I have never heard of an ETD that did not require the same organic thing to tune a piano. If there were one that did not, Ed McMorrow would lobby against it!


Semipro Tech
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: BDB] #2680962
10/10/17 12:14 AM
10/10/17 12:14 AM
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Seattle, WA USA
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Nice to be mentioned BDB!

I would like to clarify things a bit though. I am absolutely against giving AI the right to determine what an in-tune state for a piano is. Only people who have passed the tests by using aural judgements should have that authority.

If AI could tune a piano, I would lobby for the thing to pay the same taxes a person doing the job it has taken would pay.

AI should never have the right to kill a person.

The debate really comes down to if people have the right to expect the heritage of human intellectual capital our ancestors created should work for everyone, or only the select few who can finagle ownership. Imagine if Eric Prince and Putin get a hold of killer robotics, they could poison/assassinate several billion people and inherit the world!


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2680963
10/10/17 12:16 AM
10/10/17 12:16 AM
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Fazioli-Yang Offline OP
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Originally Posted by That Guy
Quote
To current TuneLab users, how far has this software progressed compared to 8 years ago ?


Now, to actually answer your original question. TuneLab has improved a lot. You can sample as many notes as you want and it's using a different type of algorithm now. It's available for Android, iPhone and Windows. I'd encourage you to check out the free demo version here: TuneLab. It's fully functional. The only limitation is that it pauses every 14 notes for 2 minutes.

Easy Piano Tuner, that someone else mentioned, is also capable software. For only $20 it's worth checking out. It'll get the job done.

I also have Tunic OnlyPure and it's really incredible. Very simple to use but difficult to master. It will really challenge your hammer technique because it's so precise.


Thanks for the summary, Scott.

Glad you mentioned TuneLab. I can more or less understand how the ability of the software to chart its own tuning curve on different pianos works if sample notes are being registered at the outset.

But with Easy Piano Tuner and Tunic OnlyPure, where the software "tunes as it goes", just like the Verituner, is difficult to imagine.



Last edited by Fazioli-Yang; 10/10/17 12:42 AM.
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2680996
10/10/17 06:34 AM
10/10/17 06:34 AM
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Tennessee
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Ed Foote Offline
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Greetings,
The machine is only a tool, and bears little discussion. The manner in which the tool is employed is a more profitable topic. All of the modern, programmable, machines, on a well scaled piano, will produce superior results to 90% of the aural tuners I have encountered. It will match 5% of them, and that last 5% will have a very small market that can tell their differences.

On the big pianos, the FAC tuning on my SAT has proven itself to a long list of world-recognized talent, in performance and recording, (tuners can get away with murder on performance tuning, it is under the microphones, in front of a producer, that things are totally unforgiving.) I had no qualms about using it, simply to test, for perhaps the world's number one cellist as the master tracks were recorded. It was very well received. I have an ear modified program for most of the pianos I see, and they have been tweaked here and there to match what I hear, rather than simple formulae from IH measurements. On a D, the difference between my "refined" template and the machine generated one is so small that it can be tossed into the moot basket and no one would notice.

It is on the smaller pianos, the ones that have inferior scales, that the machine is lost. Its judgement is not up to making the sensual compromises our ears do with ease, so there is a trade-off. There are situations where the machine is going to give an inferior result to even a journeyman level tech, and there are places that the best tech will have to strain to keep up .
regards,

Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2681033
10/10/17 10:05 AM
10/10/17 10:05 AM
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I find that one big advantage of an ETD is that it limits my ear fatigue. Sometimes I start with the ETD to get me close to in tune and then I can fine tune to my liking while I am fresh. Also, I often put in ear plugs in the beginning of tuning session and just follow the ETD, especially when the piano needs more than just a touch up. Then I remove the plugs and fine tune everything from there.

On the AI front, Tunic Only pure seems to win the prize as it apparently can tune the entire piano, unisons and all, without any listening from the tuner. Those who have it claim that it does a great job, though. But as was written before, it comes at a high price. In that sense it comes down to how much control you want over your tuning. With Tunelab and Verituner you can change a lot of settings including trying various temperaments and stretches. But, there is a lot of experimentation with that, especially for each new piano that you tune.


Piano Player and DIY tuner
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2681036
10/10/17 10:09 AM
10/10/17 10:09 AM
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How does it Tunic Only pure do with false beats? Do you just look for a best fit or is there always an obvious target that you are trying to hit?


Piano Player and DIY tuner
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: BDB] #2681043
10/10/17 10:18 AM
10/10/17 10:18 AM
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That Guy Offline
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Originally Posted by BDB
I have never heard of an ETD that did not require the same organic thing to tune a piano. If there were one that did not, Ed McMorrow would lobby against it!


You are correct but, we were talking about the device only. My device is not attached to me and therefore requires no organic matter to exist. Ears cannot exist without organic matter attached to them.


"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: That Guy] #2681079
10/10/17 11:56 AM
10/10/17 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by That Guy
Originally Posted by BDB
I have never heard of an ETD that did not require the same organic thing to tune a piano. If there were one that did not, Ed McMorrow would lobby against it!


You are correct but, we were talking about the device only. My device is not attached to me and therefore requires no organic matter to exist. Ears cannot exist without organic matter attached to them.


Sure they can. All you need is the proper size hole saw!


Semipro Tech
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Fazioli-Yang] #2681097
10/10/17 01:11 PM
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Sure they can. All you need is the proper size hole saw!


Well, I guess you're right! I stand corrected...or actually I'm sitting right now so, I sit corrected... laugh


"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
Re: How far has ETD progressed ? [Re: Ed Foote] #2681127
10/10/17 03:19 PM
10/10/17 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Foote


It is on the smaller pianos, the ones that have inferior scales, that the machine is lost. Its judgement is not up to making the sensual compromises our ears do with ease, so there is a trade-off.



OnlyPure, Verituner, and CyberTuner have no particular problem tuning small pianos. The modern ETD's tune lesser scales just fine. Of course, when the tuning is done, we still hear the lesser scale as a lesser scale, but it is a lesser scale that is quite in tune. 8^)


Last edited by Kent Swafford; 10/10/17 03:20 PM.
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