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My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
#2680790 10/09/17 10:33 AM
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Hi All,

I bought a brand new Yamaha YUS-5 in Feb 2017. I have had 4 tunings so far, one in Feb, April twice, and then Oct (yesterday).
The tunings were done by 3 different piano technicians. The first two are not good tuners, they cannot even make unison. But the third and fourth were done by a very good tuner, he is my friend. He made all the notes unison, but several hours after he left, the piano starts getting out of tune. There is no change in weather or humidity. Is there a problem with my piano?

Ron

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Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2680818 10/09/17 12:08 PM
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Unlikely there is anything wrong with your piano. Tuning stability is achieved by properly setting the pins.

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2680828 10/09/17 12:30 PM
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Did you mean after several hours of playing or was it just sitting for several hours?

Was there a reason why you did not ask your friend to tune it first? How did you decide that he is a very good tuner?

Ian


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2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2680838 10/09/17 01:10 PM
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This is a new piano. Stability often takes a while.


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Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
Beemer #2680840 10/09/17 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Beemer
Did you mean after several hours of playing or was it just sitting for several hours?

Was there a reason why you did not ask your friend to tune it first? How did you decide that he is a very good tuner?

Ian


My friend finished tuning and I checked. Everything sounded good. I deliberately did not touch the piano for several hours, and I came back and check the piano again. The piano started getting off again.

At the beginning, I got free tuning from the dealer. After it did not work for the first one, I hired a different tuner recommended by my piano teacher. This one also did not work, he could not even make the piano in tune (unison was not even achieved).

I know that my friend is a very good tuner because he is well known and a rebuilder of expensive pianos. In addition, he is expensive so I did not really want o hire him until I really need to do so. As soon as he tuned my piano for the first time, all of the keys are unison and have very clean sound. However, the piano is not able to hold it.

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2680880 10/09/17 04:40 PM
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Did you talk to your tuner friend about this?


Musician / tuner
Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
Bourniplus #2680882 10/09/17 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourniplus
Did you talk to your tuner friend about this?


Yes, I talked to him , even after the April tuning. He said to wait for awhile.
I also told him about the yesterday tuning. He cannot figure out what the problem is.
I wish I could just return the piano. I have not called Yamaha. However, I love the action and the sound of this piano.

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2680885 10/09/17 04:56 PM
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Greetings,
How did it go out of tune? Did all the unisons go out about the same amount,with the same strings going the same direction? this is the sign of a humidity change. Did various unisons just "fall apart" while others around them stayed in place? this is usually the tuner's shortcoming in balancing the tension outside of the speaking length?

there are many ways a piano goes "out of tune" and understanding how it does indicates where the problems may be.
Regards,

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
Ed Foote #2680892 10/09/17 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Foote
Greetings,
How did it go out of tune? Did all the unisons go out about the same amount,with the same strings going the same direction? this is the sign of a humidity change. Did various unisons just "fall apart" while others around them stayed in place? this is usually the tuner's shortcoming in balancing the tension outside of the speaking length?

there are many ways a piano goes "out of tune" and understanding how it does indicates where the problems may be.
Regards,


Thank you for the reply.

What I noticed yesterday is that the keys lower than the middle C are the ones that starting losing their unisons, and they did went out about the same amount. The higher the keys, the better the unisons are. I have not checked this morning. I will check tonight as soon as I come home. It is not various unisons that fell apart.

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2680902 10/09/17 06:04 PM
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Ronald, I think there is probably nothing wrong with your piano, but I would encourage you to call Yamaha and get them to send out one of their techs. They will evaluate the piano, and if there is anything amiss, they will address it. Their technician will be a top tuner.

You say your friend is your tuner, have you considered that your objectivity about his abilities might be affected by your relationship with him? Just because he says he is good, doesn't mean he is. Maybe his tunings sound nice straight after, but he can't do stable tunings? Is he a professional tuner or an amateur?

But overall, I think your piano has probably recently come out of a crate and has had insufficient time to stabilise. Did you buy the piano you tried on the sales floor? Did you note the serial number of the one you tried at the time of purchase? You might have a different (newer) piano than what you tried. Floor models are better because they've been tuned many times and are more stable. New ones take time. You have to be patient about these things. Yamaha don't tend to make lemons that can't be tuned - they are very consistent in their quality. Good luck.

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
ando #2681012 10/10/17 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ando
Ronald, I think there is probably nothing wrong with your piano, but I would encourage you to call Yamaha and get them to send out one of their techs. They will evaluate the piano, and if there is anything amiss, they will address it. Their technician will be a top tuner.

You say your friend is your tuner, have you considered that your objectivity about his abilities might be affected by your relationship with him? Just because he says he is good, doesn't mean he is. Maybe his tunings sound nice straight after, but he can't do stable tunings? Is he a professional tuner or an amateur?

But overall, I think your piano has probably recently come out of a crate and has had insufficient time to stabilise. Did you buy the piano you tried on the sales floor? Did you note the serial number of the one you tried at the time of purchase? You might have a different (newer) piano than what you tried. Floor models are better because they've been tuned many times and are more stable. New ones take time. You have to be patient about these things. Yamaha don't tend to make lemons that can't be tuned - they are very consistent in their quality. Good luck.


It was not a floor model, none of Yamaha dealers in Chicago at the time had a Yamaha YUS-5. Therefore, my piano was ordered directly from Yamaha in California. I am open to any tuner. I am very objective with a piano tuner, my friendship with my friend won't affect my judgement. If he is not good, I won't be asking him and paying him. He is even more expensive than any of tuners whom I had in the past. Yes, he is a professional and he takes care of concert halls in Wisconsin, he is even a tuner of Christopher Taylor (got 3rd place in Van Cliburn, many moons ago).

I am hoping that the piano will have no problem.

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2681018 10/10/17 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
Originally Posted by ando
Ronald, I think there is probably nothing wrong with your piano, but I would encourage you to call Yamaha and get them to send out one of their techs. They will evaluate the piano, and if there is anything amiss, they will address it. Their technician will be a top tuner.

You say your friend is your tuner, have you considered that your objectivity about his abilities might be affected by your relationship with him? Just because he says he is good, doesn't mean he is. Maybe his tunings sound nice straight after, but he can't do stable tunings? Is he a professional tuner or an amateur?

But overall, I think your piano has probably recently come out of a crate and has had insufficient time to stabilise. Did you buy the piano you tried on the sales floor? Did you note the serial number of the one you tried at the time of purchase? You might have a different (newer) piano than what you tried. Floor models are better because they've been tuned many times and are more stable. New ones take time. You have to be patient about these things. Yamaha don't tend to make lemons that can't be tuned - they are very consistent in their quality. Good luck.


It was not a floor model, none of Yamaha dealers in Chicago at the time had a Yamaha YUS-5. Therefore, my piano was ordered directly from Yamaha in California. I am open to any tuner. I am very objective with a piano tuner, my friendship with my friend won't affect my judgement. If he is not good, I won't be asking him and paying him. He is even more expensive than any of tuners whom I had in the past. Yes, he is a professional and he takes care of concert halls in Wisconsin, he is even a tuner of Christopher Taylor (got 3rd place in Van Cliburn, many moons ago).

I am hoping that the piano will have no problem.

There's your answer, Ronald. Pianos straight out of a crate typically need 4-5 tunings before they even start to stabilise.Shop floor pianos get those tunings, that's why they're stable when you get them. I doubt there's anything wrong with yours - you just have to be patient. I'm sure you'll be very happy once you get it stabilised.

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
ando #2681024 10/10/17 08:25 AM
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Yes -- I remember working in the piano store just after my piano-tech graduation and tuning many of the pianos every day. If yours has come directly from the maker, it has missed that part of its "growing up" which happens with daily tunings over a few weeks. I'm sorry no one told you what to expect with your spanking-new piano, but things will get better (not without expense for you, unfortunately).


Dorrie Bell
retired piano technician
Boston, MA
Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2681032 10/10/17 09:03 AM
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You might be surprised to find out that your indoor climate is not as stable as you think. Something like this:

https://www.omega.com/googlebase/pr...EwJvm1gIVBgxpCh3R6Q1PEAYYBSABEgKGNvD_BwE

can help give some information, if the instability continues through the next few months...

Ron Koval

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2681057 10/10/17 10:12 AM
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Congratulations with your new piano. I hope it gives you many years of enjoyment.

When my Bösendorfer was new, I had it tuned one month out, then two months out and then quarterly for a year. It was stabilized by that point.

I think your piano will be just fine.

Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 10/10/17 10:16 AM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
ando #2681109 10/10/17 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
Originally Posted by ando
Ronald, I think there is probably nothing wrong with your piano, but I would encourage you to call Yamaha and get them to send out one of their techs. They will evaluate the piano, and if there is anything amiss, they will address it. Their technician will be a top tuner.

You say your friend is your tuner, have you considered that your objectivity about his abilities might be affected by your relationship with him? Just because he says he is good, doesn't mean he is. Maybe his tunings sound nice straight after, but he can't do stable tunings? Is he a professional tuner or an amateur?

But overall, I think your piano has probably recently come out of a crate and has had insufficient time to stabilise. Did you buy the piano you tried on the sales floor? Did you note the serial number of the one you tried at the time of purchase? You might have a different (newer) piano than what you tried. Floor models are better because they've been tuned many times and are more stable. New ones take time. You have to be patient about these things. Yamaha don't tend to make lemons that can't be tuned - they are very consistent in their quality. Good luck.


It was not a floor model, none of Yamaha dealers in Chicago at the time had a Yamaha YUS-5. Therefore, my piano was ordered directly from Yamaha in California. I am open to any tuner. I am very objective with a piano tuner, my friendship with my friend won't affect my judgement. If he is not good, I won't be asking him and paying him. He is even more expensive than any of tuners whom I had in the past. Yes, he is a professional and he takes care of concert halls in Wisconsin, he is even a tuner of Christopher Taylor (got 3rd place in Van Cliburn, many moons ago).

I am hoping that the piano will have no problem.

There's your answer, Ronald. Pianos straight out of a crate typically need 4-5 tunings before they even start to stabilise.Shop floor pianos get those tunings, that's why they're stable when you get them. I doubt there's anything wrong with yours - you just have to be patient. I'm sure you'll be very happy once you get it stabilised.


Thx!... I am very happy with the action and also the sound. I just cannot stand the out of tuning. Hopefully, it will be ok after a year.

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2681110 10/10/17 01:15 PM
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Thx everybody....I am hoping it will be fine.

Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2681415 10/11/17 08:58 PM
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The pin block of new Yamaha had changed, unlike old day Yamaha, soft, easy to tune, nearly no pin setting needed.
I had customers with new Yamaha, paid me instead using the free tunings included in the new piano. Even the house tuner of the Yamaha agent can't get the job done if the client has a normal, not trained bad ear. The Pleyel piano, from the same dealer, has this problem too.

For the pin block of new Yamaha, its stiff like most cheap Asian piano. Hailun and Ritmuller have better pin block. Pleyel's pin block is very tight too. Unlike new Yamaha, if apply correct force, it can move slowly and smoothly. It can tune to very precise. For stability, it can hold up to half year.

For the new Yamaha, I have experience from YUS5 down to new cash cow models. The pin block is stiff, can't move it precisely. I can feel the tuning pin twisting. Its easier to obtain crispy unison by twisting tuning pin. But this technique should be avoided, even I paid a lot dollars to learn from a "tuner with half century experience". In my practice, after each pin, flip flop the the tuning hammer. In most case, it de-tuned immediately. Then tune again until get the tuning done and the tuning pin seat in its natural position. For recurring customer, need more than two hour for a tuning. Most of my job done within 1 1/2 hours with some minor fixing and regulation. Its far slower than the industry standard and the service standard of Yamaha agent in my city: its 45 minutes.


Working on:\

J.S.Bach Prelude in C Min: No. 2 from Six Preludes fur Anfanger auf dem
Am Abend No. 2 from Stimmungsbilder, Op. 88
60s Swing No. 1 from Swinging Rhythms
Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
Weiyan #2681425 10/11/17 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Weiyan
The pin block of new Yamaha had changed, unlike old day Yamaha, soft, easy to tune, nearly no pin setting needed.
I had customers with new Yamaha, paid me instead using the free tunings included in the new piano. Even the house tuner of the Yamaha agent can't get the job done if the client has a normal, not trained bad ear. The Pleyel piano, from the same dealer, has this problem too.

For the pin block of new Yamaha, its stiff like most cheap Asian piano. Hailun and Ritmuller have better pin block. Pleyel's pin block is very tight too. Unlike new Yamaha, if apply correct force, it can move slowly and smoothly. It can tune to very precise. For stability, it can hold up to half year.

For the new Yamaha, I have experience from YUS5 down to new cash cow models. The pin block is stiff, can't move it precisely. I can feel the tuning pin twisting. Its easier to obtain crispy unison by twisting tuning pin. But this technique should be avoided, even I paid a lot dollars to learn from a "tuner with half century experience". In my practice, after each pin, flip flop the the tuning hammer. In most case, it de-tuned immediately. Then tune again until get the tuning done and the tuning pin seat in its natural position. For recurring customer, need more than two hour for a tuning. Most of my job done within 1 1/2 hours with some minor fixing and regulation. Its far slower than the industry standard and the service standard of Yamaha agent in my city: its 45 minutes.


I would agree with this. The feel of the pins improves after a dozen tunings, and at that point, stable tunings become faster and easier, in most cases.



Re: My Yamaha YUS-5 went out of tune so fast
RonaldSteinway #2865246 07/02/19 04:19 PM
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OK...Nearly two years later, my YUS5 still does not tune well. I have had the humidity monitor to monitor the humidity in my house. So far, the piano still does not get better whatsoever!

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