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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680156 10/06/17 03:21 PM
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Can anyone who plays one regularly comment specifically on their experiences with the wooden soundboard on the CA-97 (and now CA-98)? It seems like the design is intended to render a more organic sound though I'd think the clarity of a well designed audio amplification and speaker system matched with sampling/modeling software would surpass a wooden soundboard on a digital piano. I'm planning to purchase a high-end DP within the next few months, and although I'm looking at models with acoustic piano actions, I'm intrigued by the concept of a wooden soundboard. In my case the back side of the piano will be against the side of an upholstered couch so not sure if there are any advantages of having sound pushed out the back.

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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680186 10/06/17 06:35 PM
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I don't get the negativity about the "Pianist mode". There are already pre-conceptions/judgements about the *sound* of a musical instrument without even hearing it. Or, about the product being 'rushed' without ever seeing it. All of this is based on the reading of the manual. IMHO, this does not make any sense. One should at least *hear* the sound before criticizing it.

Osho


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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: danielp11] #2680196 10/06/17 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by danielp11


I have looked at the manual.

You can record WAV files in pianist mode, but only to a connected USB stick and not to the internal memory.

Daniel


Thank you! That solves the audio recording problem.

. . . Will it record MIDI in Pianist mode?


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680201 10/06/17 07:43 PM
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What I see in this thread are people trying to come up with a story behind the product, because that story has yet to be told clearly by Kawai.

For example, it's not immediately clear *why* the pianist mode is organized the way it is (customization), and *why* it is limited the way it is (MIDI). If there were a clear story, people wouldn't resort to cobbling together guesses like it being "half-baked" etc...

Contrast this with the RD-2000 which similarly has two engines: one legacy, the other new. That the new one is labelled as using "v piano technology" or some such branding tells the story of what they are trying to do... Because the V-Piano is such a known entity with such a clear vision, bringing that technology to another offering has a clear purpose and spirit.

I'm not saying Roland's offerings are superior ... I'm only saying that their marketing story was clear right off the bat.

I expect the story behind this product will be woven, and I look forward to understand it.

I'm personally *really* excited to hear pianist mode and to understand the spirit that put it forward and how that might play out in future product updates ... notably, to the MP11

Again, I can't wait to hear it.

Cheers.


Kawai MP11SE | K&M 18950 | Pianoteq Pro (Bleuthner, Steingraeber, Petrof, Bechstein, Steinway B & D, Electric Pianos, K) | Sennheiser HD600 | Sony WH-1000XM3 (using wired) for noise isolation
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: jfl] #2680235 10/07/17 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jfl
Can anyone who plays one regularly comment specifically on their experiences with the wooden soundboard on the CA-97 (and now CA-98)? It seems like the design is intended to render a more organic sound though I'd think the clarity of a well designed audio amplification and speaker system matched with sampling/modeling software would surpass a wooden soundboard on a digital piano. I'm planning to purchase a high-end DP within the next few months, and although I'm looking at models with acoustic piano actions, I'm intrigued by the concept of a wooden soundboard. In my case the back side of the piano will be against the side of an upholstered couch so not sure if there are any advantages of having sound pushed out the back.


I assume that the sound engine must have some tweaking based if the sound board is used, relative to 'transparent' loudspeaker models. Otherwise it would be a double convolution of the properties of the original piano and digital pianos soundboard. Unless the soundboard actually has acoustic properties more like a 'transparent' driver (perhaps with the exception of the spatial properties of an acoustic piano).

Last edited by josefhofmann; 10/07/17 02:49 AM.
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: jfl] #2680248 10/07/17 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jfl
Can anyone who plays one regularly comment specifically on their experiences with the wooden soundboard on the CA-97 (and now CA-98)? It seems like the design is intended to render a more organic sound though I'd think the clarity of a well designed audio amplification and speaker system matched with sampling/modeling software would surpass a wooden soundboard on a digital piano. I'm planning to purchase a high-end DP within the next few months, and although I'm looking at models with acoustic piano actions, I'm intrigued by the concept of a wooden soundboard. In my case the back side of the piano will be against the side of an upholstered couch so not sure if there are any advantages of having sound pushed out the back.


I am playing normal music via line in on my CS11 (also with soundboard) often. Sounds really goodas it should, no distortions. The vibrations through the sound board are just like on a acoustic piano.

Daniel


KAWAI CS11 (sold KAWAI CA 97), KAWAI GX2 acoustic grand piano (sold SCHIMMEL acoustic upright)
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: danielp11] #2680279 10/07/17 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by danielp11
Originally Posted by jfl
Can anyone who plays one regularly comment specifically on their experiences with the wooden soundboard on the CA-97 (and now CA-98)? It seems like the design is intended to render a more organic sound though I'd think the clarity of a well designed audio amplification and speaker system matched with sampling/modeling software would surpass a wooden soundboard on a digital piano. I'm planning to purchase a high-end DP within the next few months, and although I'm looking at models with acoustic piano actions, I'm intrigued by the concept of a wooden soundboard. In my case the back side of the piano will be against the side of an upholstered couch so not sure if there are any advantages of having sound pushed out the back.


I am playing normal music via line in on my CS11 (also with soundboard) often. Sounds really goodas it should, no distortions. The vibrations through the sound board are just like on a acoustic piano.

Daniel


How is the stereo imaging compared to two monitors?

This system does puzzle me, if the soundboard has the characteristics of an acoustic piano, it must add some extra properties (filter) to sources via the line in.

All said, I do think it is a pleasurable instrument to play (based on my experience with the CA97)! The GFII has the smoothest trills and double thirds of all digitals I've tried.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680292 10/07/17 10:17 AM
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Do real acoustic pianos have stereo sound projection? smile


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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: CyberGene] #2680302 10/07/17 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Do real acoustic pianos have stereo sound projection? smile


Of course not smile. I was referring to danielp11's comment about there being no distortion via the line in for normal music. The stereo panning is very likely to be altered unless the soundboard is used differently compared to how it is used in the internal piano mode mode.

Last edited by josefhofmann; 10/07/17 10:50 AM.
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: CyberGene] #2680308 10/07/17 11:23 AM
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Better than that. They have full 3D projection! smile
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Do real acoustic pianos have stereo sound projection? smile

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: MacMacMac] #2680313 10/07/17 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Better than that. They have full 3D projection! smile
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Do real acoustic pianos have stereo sound projection? smile


Yes, this is why headphones are a bit "fake", when you play and move your head. This is also why samples loop are seems "dead" (because they remove stereophonic characteritics of sample, to avoid you notice stereo break/jump when you re-loop).

Last edited by zack!; 10/07/17 11:50 AM.
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680317 10/07/17 12:14 PM
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Well, I was asking with a tongue in cheek smile

But speaking about real piano projection and Kawai soundboard, the last time I played a CA97 and CS11, I was still under the impression that it's rather stereo than anything else. Let's see if the new multi-channel sampling and twin-drive with better drivers would be able to improve that.


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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680319 10/07/17 12:24 PM
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Do we need to buy some extra ears to use this new multi-channel sampling? grin


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680503 10/08/17 08:11 AM
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By the way: I have found a listing in Germany for the kawai ca 98 at 3599 Euro, deliverable from 6th November
https://www.musikhaus-korn.de/de/kawai-ca-98-b-schwarz-digitalpiano/pd/139765

Ca78 at 2949 Euro
https://www.musikhaus-korn.de/de/kawai-ca-78-b-schwarz-digitalpiano/pd/139769



---------------------------------------------------------------
Casio Celviano AP620 - to be replaced soon
Kawai ES8 & JBL LSR 305 speakers
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680736 10/09/17 05:09 AM
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And where’s James? laugh


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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680777 10/09/17 10:48 AM
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Perhaps he is in China now.


Kawai CA67/Ivory 2 Grand Piano
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680843 10/09/17 02:35 PM
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I was viewing a YouTube video of the CA98 at reduced speed and it seemed to have a bit of key bounce on the action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UceaK7uMzXA

Unfortunately, there's a lot of background noise on the video.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680849 10/09/17 03:30 PM
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Hi,

i just found an kawai video that seems to show the pianist sound of the CA98.

https://youtu.be/L5o35GEmpN4


What are your opinions compared to the CA97?

Daniel




Last edited by danielp11; 10/09/17 03:32 PM.

KAWAI CS11 (sold KAWAI CA 97), KAWAI GX2 acoustic grand piano (sold SCHIMMEL acoustic upright)
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2680854 10/09/17 03:52 PM
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Nice discovery. Frankly, expected a bit more from the sound but this video is very badly done because on some places there are two piano pieces mixed at the same moment, for example a faint piece can be heard in the background at the same time Scherzo is heard, as well as later, so I wouldn't count if that video is representative of the real sound. Besides, when changing the characters I don't hear any real difference and so wondering if this is the real sound from the piano. We will see.


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA98 and CA78 digital pianos [Re: danielp11] #2680855 10/09/17 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by danielp11
Hi,

i just found an kawai video that seems to show the pianist sound of the CA98.

https://youtu.be/L5o35GEmpN4



That's a really good video to show off how the menu system works on the touchscreen too, thanks for that. Definitely looks alot better/more intuitive than my CA97. Can't wait to get my CA98!!


Kawai CA97 (soon to be CA98)
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