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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2679926 10/05/17 02:06 PM
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mcoll Offline
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So much for "the most affordable Concert Artist instrument ever developed, and the successor to the highly popular CA17".
Either the marketing team did too much marketing with that statement, or the introductory prices are over-blown by retailers.
That's 150euros more expensive than the CA17. Definitely not the most affordable CA for the time being.

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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: mcoll] #2679932 10/05/17 02:33 PM
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Alohaneko Offline
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Originally Posted by mcoll

Either the marketing team did too much marketing with that statement, or the introductory prices are over-blown by retailers.

Probably the latter, or rather, retailers haven't decided on the level of discounting they would offer yet. Recommended retail price of the CA17 in the UK is GBP 1888. In Japan, it's 210,000 yen; the CA 48 will be offered at 195,000 yen according to the ASCII article.

Last edited by Alohaneko; 10/05/17 02:34 PM. Reason: Price corrected

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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2679935 10/05/17 02:37 PM
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RM3III key action+Bluetooth+more VT parameters;

On the other hand: downgraded sampling+ still 192 p+ still no full modeling+ no screen/button control panel;


Kawai CA67/Ivory 2 Grand Piano
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2679941 10/05/17 03:22 PM
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Kawai James,

?Will the U.S. get the CA48?


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and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: USSOWT] #2679947 10/05/17 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by USSOWT

On the other hand: downgraded sampling


That's a point, saw the PHI, didn't bother to check the ca17 but it did actually have hi-xl. Perhaps this is a mistake? Seems odd to go backwards.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Bambers] #2679953 10/05/17 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bambers
Originally Posted by USSOWT

On the other hand: downgraded sampling


That's a point, saw the PHI, didn't bother to check the ca17 but it did actually have hi-xl. Perhaps this is a mistake? Seems odd to go backwards.


It's practically CN27 electronics reused here. Cost saving for sure.

Last edited by WarrenY; 10/05/17 04:18 PM.

Yamaha U1 | Roland FP90+JBL LSR305
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Bambers] #2679979 10/05/17 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bambers
Originally Posted by USSOWT

On the other hand: downgraded sampling


That's a point, saw the PHI, didn't bother to check the ca17 but it did actually have hi-xl. Perhaps this is a mistake? Seems odd to go backwards.

So it doesn't have the longer samples of the ES8 now?


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2679982 10/05/17 07:36 PM
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I wonder if the GF Compact can make its way into a stage piano - and what that might weigh?

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2679989 10/05/17 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
I wonder if the GF Compact can make its way into a stage piano - and what that might weigh?


Originally Posted by CyberGene
I am sure this action is not created for the purpose of (only) CA48. Lesser models in the Kawai range are usually created from last-gen technologies and it doesn't make sense to design an entirely new compact action for that. Do you follow my thought? wink Yes, this is most probably created with VPC2 in mind because that was the most often requested feature - GF in VPC, however GF is a bit large to put in a VPC-style of piano. Hence GF compact - longer pivot length. Hopefully I am right smile


I wouldn't be surprised if the GF-C was the basis of both a VPC-2 and MP11 successor (not that I'm not hoping for a GF2 instead).

Just for kicks, I normalized the sizes of the various Kawai wooden key actions to hopefully illustrate the main differences with the Grand Feel Compact:

[Linked Image]


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2680014 10/06/17 01:13 AM
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Very good comparison, thank you! So it seems GF-C has the shortest overall construction but has longer pivot point than RM3. It would be interesting to compare them in real piano playing side by side.


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2680019 10/06/17 01:36 AM
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About GF-C vs RM3II, yes the pivot point is longer but distance of the pivot point to the "hammer hit" point seems shorter. In the RM3 the hammer hit on the blue line, in the GF-C the blue line is the key end point but the hammer hit point is before the end. So it's not easily comparable the leverage effect, the final effect could be equal or even worse (few millimeters near the pivot point could make a huge difference).

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2680038 10/06/17 04:34 AM
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A mind boggling "upgrade", to me at least. They've changed the model number from 17 to 48, signalling some huge upgrade, while dumbing down the sound engine to the CN series, and still omitting audio in connectivity. They've also made it smaller and cheaper looking (check the legs for example, from sturdy to thin and temporary looking). Like the CA17, this could have been an attractive, furniture style controller for many people, with a great keyboard action and good speakers (it has a 4-speaker setup with 40W amps). Yet without a line in (probably a $5 cost component) it is useless for that.


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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: PianoVibe] #2680044 10/06/17 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by PianoVibe
About GF-C vs RM3II, yes the pivot point is longer but distance of the pivot point to the "hammer hit" point seems shorter. In the RM3 the hammer hit on the blue line, in the GF-C the blue line is the key end point but the hammer hit point is before the end. So it's not easily comparable the leverage effect, the final effect could be equal or even worse (few millimeters near the pivot point could make a huge difference).


In terms of the difference in weight between the front and back of the key surface you touch, only the length to the pivot matters and what happens beyond it is irrelevant. For what happens beyond the pivot, that's largely a matter of tweaking the weights involved to get the right feel. Might be worth noting that the pivot to hammer hit length is shorter on the full GF1/2 actions than it is on RM3.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: alphonsus] #2680045 10/06/17 06:01 AM
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Gotta admit that if either the CN27 or the CA17 had a line in, I would've bought one. but now you need an IOS app to change some aspects of the settings . . . .

Last edited by peterws; 10/06/17 06:03 AM.

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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: peterws] #2680049 10/06/17 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by peterws
Gotta admit that if either the CN27 or the CA17 had a line in, I would've bought one. but now you need an IOS app to change some aspects of the settings . . . .


Do I understand right that now there are some settings that you cannot change by connecting the digital piano to a PC by cable and running PC software, just via IOS app?


Kawai KDP-90
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2680080 10/06/17 08:46 AM
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Good one, Gombessa!
Adding other actions to that would be great for reference smile
Although I know it's hard to find proper side views. It gave me trouble in the past when I was researching pivot points obsessively :))

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2680203 10/06/17 06:45 PM
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The English manual shows the address of Kawai America in California. That could mean it's going to be sold in the USA.

Without an audio line in jack I'm doubting I would buy it anyway.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2680257 10/07/17 05:54 AM
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Thank you, Gombessa, for putting the graphic together. It does dampen my initial enthusiasm. frown It's not clear if GF Compact would be an improvement over the CA-17's mechanism, RMS 3; it looks like it's been developed for a compact piano (well I guess the name gives that away).

Of course I can only judge the keyboard after actually playing a CA-48, but I don't feel compelled to wait buying a piano until the CA-48 appears on a shop floor. The current top choice for me is the Roland HP 603; if the price come down on the CA-67, that would be a very strong possibility.

A few other things that disappoint me about the CA-48:

I'd like to to be able to change the temperament of the instrument, because I play a lot of Baroque and 18C music. On the CA-67 and the HP-603, standard alternative temperaments such as meantone and Kirnberger are available at the console; but for the CA-48 it seems I would have to go to the Virtual Technician app.

Three-digit LED display. I mean.... OK it's better than no display at all, but it's a serious mismatch with the number of functions / options available on the instrument. No need for touchscreen or colour, just that the display must be able to "say" more than can a three-digit calculator-type LED. Really.... this shouldn't be the expensive part of the piano at all.

> Rant off <


Kawai CA 78 / Sennheiser HD 559

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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Kawai James] #2680362 10/07/17 02:45 PM
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@Alophaneko - I expect the action to be a significant step up over the VPC1. I think the ''compact'' implies it's a smaller GF. For use in smaller pianos, but I'm pretty sure it's an improvement over the VPC1, otherwise they wouldn't have changed it. And Kawai does make nice actions, we convinced ourselves of that.
But ultimately, proof is in the playing.
And that's a good idea - a well discounted CA67 is certainly superior to the CA-48 smile And can be used as a great controller when one decides better sounds are in order. Maybe I should consider that too smile HP603 is on the list as well.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA48 digital piano [Re: Alohaneko] #2680986 10/10/17 02:56 AM
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Hello folks,

To respond to some of your queries:

Originally Posted by Alohaneko
Any idea as to when the CA48 might become available in the UK market? The Japanese ASCII article that James linked to in the other new Kawai thread quotes a release date of November 10. Sure hope it will be here for the Christmas shopping season.


May I recommend that you contact your Kawai dealer for information regarding pricing and availability in the UK.

Originally Posted by unkabin
Hi James. I don't suppose there's any chance of this CA48 showing up in the U.S.?


No, I don't believe so. Kawai America elects not to market the CA17 (nor the previous CA15, CA13, etc.) in the US, and the CA48 is the successor to the CA17. Therefore, I would say it's rather unlikely, however, by all means, please do contact your Kawai dealer (and or Kawai America directly) to express interest in this model.

Originally Posted by Alohaneko
Originally Posted by mcoll

Either the marketing team did too much marketing with that statement, or the introductory prices are over-blown by retailers.

Probably the latter, or rather, retailers haven't decided on the level of discounting they would offer yet. Recommended retail price of the CA17 in the UK is GBP 1888. In Japan, it's 210,000 yen; the CA 48 will be offered at 195,000 yen according to the ASCII article.


Correct on both counts. wink

Originally Posted by Gombessa
Just for kicks, I normalized the sizes of the various Kawai wooden key actions to hopefully illustrate the main differences with the Grand Feel Compact...


Interesting comparison. wink

Originally Posted by peterws
but now you need an IOS app to change some aspects of the settings

Originally Posted by Jasper E.
Do I understand right that now there are some settings that you cannot change by connecting the digital piano to a PC by cable and running PC software, just via IOS app?


Yes, the number of Virtual Technician parameters has increased, however the VT app is now required to adjust individual parameters (except 'Touch'). Without the app, the user can adjust the Virtual Technician using the 'Smart Mode' presets.

Originally Posted by TonyBanks
The English manual shows the address of Kawai America in California. That could mean it's going to be sold in the USA.


I believe this information is included (and required) in the manual for safety standards testing, and does not necessarily mean that the instrument will be sold in the US. The CA17 manual included the same information, but was not marketed by Kawai America.

Originally Posted by Alohaneko
I'd like to to be able to change the temperament of the instrument, because I play a lot of Baroque and 18C music. On the CA-67 and the HP-603, standard alternative temperaments such as meantone and Kirnberger are available at the console; but for the CA-48 it seems I would have to go to the Virtual Technician app.


Yes, that's correct.

I hope this helps to answer your queries.

Kind regards,
James
x


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