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Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
#2678262 09/28/17 03:45 AM
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And you (mod team) thinks we are and you are proud of that.
You deleted one old thread with a lot of useful information and lot of ideas... just because we asked why you deleted the other thread... do you even think what are you doing??? And have any kind of thought and self-criticism?

Originally Posted by Casinitaly


The kind explanation is that people were posting material that was not meant to be avaiilable to the general public and using PW as a platform to discuss the details of a product that had not been released.

Information was posted that was hacked from the Kawai site prior to their release of product.
It was illegally obtained information. It was not for public distribution.


How you can even write such a complete nonsens and using it as an explanations to your actions?
That's what Stalin did - give me a person and I will find a paragraph.

First of all - it's NOT a PW forum problem what t was available on Kawai site. It was available public for any person in the world - how the heck you can call it hacking??? No one hacked anything.

Information posted was from their website and from a user, who got his knowledge from a leaflet given to him by an authorized dealer.

None of that was illegal. Illegal was your deleting of both threads, in which users spend a lot of time and effort to contribute there.

Also, whether the product was or not released, it it changing anything? Completely not.

Originally Posted by casinitaly

One thread was removed,
another was revived, renewing the topic and harrassing the moderating team on their actions and it was also removed.


Are you 16-year old girl or mature person? If. Second, so please behave like one. How you can call "harassing"', when people asked for explanations, why two important threads were gone? And this are you calling harassing? No, we only asked, for what should be you obligation.

Still, it would be nice if you could tell us the truth, instead you are deleting all proofs and having language like a secret government agency. Bloody disgusting.

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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678264 09/28/17 03:56 AM
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That's over-reacting, I think.

As for this:
Quote
Illegal was your deleting of both threads.
The site has an owner. The mods are charged with overseeing the owner's interests. Collectively they can manage the site anyway they see fit. Deleting threads is not illegal.

The mod said that people were posting material that was not meant to be avaiilable to the general public. What makes you think this is not true?

The mod said the information posted was hacked from Kawai. What makes you think this is not true?

The mod said it was illegally obtained. What makes you think this is not true?

We might never learn the details behind this. But no one is obligated to reveal such to anyone.

And who cares, anyway? Every iota of "secret" product information will eventually become available ... just as soon as the putative new products are released.

Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678265 09/28/17 04:07 AM
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MacMacMac,

How can something what an authorized dealer give you can be illegally obtained?
And how something from an open website can be illegally obtained?

No one hacked here Kawai website, it was just open to the whole world.


Also, ale the mods legal depts of any manufacturers? This is only forum I know which is behave like it. In each other business you always have rumors, leaks, and no one is closing mouths to the forum members. Perhaps, because you can't close mobile phone or car forum and there thousand of them.

While pianos are kept as a top secret product, like it was an innovative weapon or nuclear bomb plans. It only digital piano! And people now in case of Kawai is time to upgrade, due to logic three years cycle being a standard in digital piano industry.

Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678266 09/28/17 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kapelli
pianos are kept as a top secret product, like it was an innovative weapon or nuclear bomb plans. It only digital piano!


It would appear to be so. LOL. But after all, aren't we as avid enthusiasts being done a favour? Who could enjoy the magic of Christmas morning if we'd already peaked under the wrapping of the presents under the tree beforehand?


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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
toddy #2678267 09/28/17 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by kapelli
pianos are kept as a top secret product, like it was an innovative weapon or nuclear bomb plans. It only digital piano!


It would appear to be so. LOL. But after all, aren't we as avid enthusiasts being done a favour? Who could enjoy the magic of Christmas morning if we'd already peaked under the wrapping of the presents under the tree beforehand?


Sure I understand. But here we even do not know whether we will get presentes and all our curiosity has been taken down.

They could just remove what was unappriopriate and leave the threads. Especially the thread with ideas was very good.

Also, observing market and talking with the delaers and sharing that knowledge, isn't a crime?

Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678273 09/28/17 05:39 AM
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Sometimes we all make mistakes:

http://www.kawai-global.com/news/20170413/

Ian


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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678275 09/28/17 06:15 AM
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I'm sure they didn't want to delete posts that members had spent a lot of time contributing to. However, members contribute to posts for free (as the service is also free with adverts) and we do so at our own leisure.

Kawai make pianos for money; therefore, if information is leaked because of a mistake or a breach of security, that breach could lead to potential loss of revenue. Marketing campaigns are carefully planned to generate the maximum excitement to stimulate the market etc. This information leak may have cost Kawai time and effort (therefore money) and also damaged the timings of their campaign. They may have inadvertently benefited by receiving early feedback; however, it is possible that any potentially helpful suggestions are too late to benefit them due to the instruments imminent release.

The moderators therefore have to balance Kawai's potential or actual commercial loss against the loss of time and material members put into the posts. As we benefit from Kawai's activities, it does us no benefit to take leaked information generate long conversations about it.


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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678278 09/28/17 06:42 AM
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redundant

Last edited by Roger Ransom; 09/28/17 07:11 AM.

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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678279 09/28/17 06:43 AM
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Kapelli, You actually think deleting threads is illegal?


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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678281 09/28/17 06:53 AM
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I think (protection of intellectual property is a perfect reason for removing leaks. I can fully understand that part, and not removing the actual leak could in worst case cause legal and financial troubles. That part sounds absolutely OK for me.

I am not sure if all comments were really necessary to remove. Some announcements earlier with some minimal reasoning (leak removed in order to protect intellectual property etc.) could have been highly appreciated...


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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678282 09/28/17 07:02 AM
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I've been on other product forums, and I've never seen a thread deleted because someone was privy to a little inside information. They should have removed individual posts.
On the other hand, if Kawai requested removal, and Pianoworld doesn't comply, Pianoworld risks losing ad revenue.


Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
Beakybird #2678284 09/28/17 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Beakybird
I've been on other product forums, and I've never seen a thread deleted because someone was privy to a little inside information. They should have removed individual posts.
On the other hand, if Kawai requested removal, and Pianoworld doesn't comply, Pianoworld risks losing ad revenue.


Aren't You omitting from your statement that, in the case of a Kawai request to remove the entire thread, to only partially delete it could possibly result in legal action that would need to be defended in court? This is not a high revenue producing website, and any issues that might lead to court action I would think would be avoided by the owner....at least I would, wouldn't you in this situation?

This forum does not ask members to pay a fee to belong, but only gives the opportunity for making a donation.


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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
dogperson #2678291 09/28/17 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Beakybird
I've been on other product forums, and I've never seen a thread deleted because someone was privy to a little inside information. They should have removed individual posts.
On the other hand, if Kawai requested removal, and Pianoworld doesn't comply, Pianoworld risks losing ad revenue.


Aren't You omitting from your statement that, in the case of a Kawai request to remove the entire thread, to only partially delete it could possibly result in legal action that would need to be defended in court? This is not a high revenue producing website, and any issues that might lead to court action I would think would be avoided by the owner....at least I would, wouldn't you in this situation?

This forum does not ask members to pay a fee to belong, but only gives the opportunity for making a donation.





The moderator strongly implied that Kawai made no such request.

Last edited by toddy; 09/28/17 07:46 AM.

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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678294 09/28/17 07:59 AM
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I am somewhere in between. There was one thread with the leaks, logically it was deleted. However there was another thread that was old and contained very interesting discussions about what people would like to see in the next CA-series. It was only a few of the latest posts that referred to the leaks and only they should have been deleted, not the whole thread.

And let's not make drama, there was a leak, James (supposedly) requested for the thread to be deleted, they try to limit the damage. Kapelli, I think you are overreacting indeed. It's not about political freedom of speech and pluralism, this is just a corporate leak about forthcoming product. The leak was (supposedly) obtained illegally, that doesn't make it right for us to distribute it freely. If you happen to find a stolen object and then the real owner comes and request that you don't hand it over to someone else but himself, what would be your reaction?


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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678297 09/28/17 08:05 AM
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1. No one thought anyone here was a moron.
2. I admit to making an error by using the term illegal. It was pointed out to me - very politely -in a private email last night by jackifus and I corrected one post, I forgot about the second one - I'm human. I make mistakes.
3. the info was on the Kawai site, but it was not meant to be available. That's all you're getting.
4. personal abuse of ANY member is not tolerated in the forums.


It is possible that after the product is released we may reinstate the threads so that the useful information is not lost - but at this point I make you no promises.

Thank you to those of you who managed to understand what the issues were without detailed explainations and who voiced your opinions here politely and thoughtfully.

I won't lock or remove this thread for the moment but if there is any more personal abuse it will be locked and those being abusive will have their posting privileges suspended. Expressing your opinion does not mean that you have to be rude.



Last edited by casinitaly; 09/28/17 08:07 AM. Reason: typo

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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678300 09/28/17 08:12 AM
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This is fair enough I reckon. We just need to wait and see what Kawai comes up with. Friendly speculations and/or wish lists are what keeps a forum like this ticking...but in any event it appears all will be revealed soonish......


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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678311 09/28/17 08:50 AM
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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678316 09/28/17 09:17 AM
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Hi, I am the one who started those 2 deleted posts, here are a few words that I want to say:

Despite the angry expressions, I need to say Kapelli is the one who is fighting for the many who are quiet after seeing their replies deleted, though I don't agree with all his words, he has my respect. This post made many who were quiet express their own opinions(including me) and it also made the moderator adjust his attitude, for that, starting this post is meaningful;

For the two deleted posts, I agree with CyberGene;

Apologies for bringing many here hard feelings;

To the 2000 who clicked the deleted post, now you know the info you have read has been officially verified by Kawai.


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Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
kapelli #2678321 09/28/17 09:41 AM
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I agree with Doug M. quite fully. Thanks for casinitaly for clarifying comments and to me the proposed continuation sounds good.

Originally Posted by kapelli
Are you 16-year old girl or mature person? If. Second, so please behave like one. How you can call "harassing"', when people asked for explanations, why two important threads were gone? And this are you calling harassing? No, we only asked, for what should be you obligation.


As an off-topic note, trying to challenge someone regarding their maturity while at the same time implying their actions to be that of a 16-year old girl is a bit absurd, in addition to being offensive to many well-behaved individuals of the female kind in that age bracket. And in the context of a volunteer-driven forum in the internet, speaking of obligations seems quite out of place. Excess passion is better directed to piano playing than meta arguments regarding moderation.

Re: Closing threads - we're not idiots! New Kawai soon released.
mcoll #2678322 09/28/17 09:42 AM
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and one more +1 for you smile


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