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I'm curious how research has changed how baroque music is played. When I learned organ, for instance, back in the early 1970s, the Marcel Dupre method was to play Bach using legato. I was away from the music world for a long time, then found out nobody does that any more -- now it's all about detached playing. I've heard about research in historically informed performance, and thoughts about fingering style. Man, it's a lot easier to play contrapuntal music without being obsessed with legato!
So when did this happen, and what research pointed people in this direction? I've looked for sources, but striking out. Maybe somebody knows on this forum.
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I grew up in music in the middle of all that in the 70s and 80s, and since I was obsessed with Bach and organ music, I remember getting really excited when I found Bach recordings of Michel Chapuis and Anthony Newman in the late 70s and 80s. Still listen to Chapuis, not so much Newman. None of my organ teachers were particular warm to the new ideas of performance, though. Outside of keyboard music, people like Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Christopher Hogwood and John Eliot Gardener were influential. It seems to me that at the beginning of the resurgence in early practice, the people promoting it were fairly strident, and since then the style has moderated back a bit while audiences have grown more receptive. In fact, I think audiences these days expect to hear a completely different sort of baroque music than they would have when I was a kid.
Btw - Michel Chapuis studied with Marcel Dupré.
Last edited by David Farley; 09/22/17 11:10 PM.
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Can't tell you much about research, just what I know from my own reading and my teacher. The detached way of playing is because in Bach's time there were no pianos and he played on harpsichords and clavichords. Those instruments do not produce the same legato effect that a piano would (I haven't listened to harpsichords, so correct me if I'm wrong). Hence, to mimick that, a piano player would use partato. The way my teacher plays partato it can sound very similar to legato because the notes aren't super detached from each other, but the overall effect is clearly different. Also, my teacher suggests using the pedal just a tiny bit when playing Bach in order to create ambience since most of Bach's music was played in churches where the sound would echo.
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A piano's legato is worse than a clavichord's.
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Actually I have a clavichord, but not sure what you mean about the legato difference. Mine doesn't sustain nearly as long as my 6' piano.
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It's decay is not as sudden which makes ideal for choral music.
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It's decay is not as sudden which makes ideal for choral music. I think a clavichord would be far too soft to accompany choral music.
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Not accompany, play. Mozart composed the Magic Flute on his, Haydn the Seasons.
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Not accompany, play. Mozart composed the Magic Flute on his, Haydn the Seasons. But a piano with its sustaining pedal will have a much greater sustain than a clavichord so I don't think your idea of using a clavichord for choral music makes much sense except possibly before pianos with sustaining pedals existed.
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You just don't get it do you? It's about the rate of decay. The pedal doesn't affect that.
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You just don't get it do you? It's about the rate of decay. The pedal doesn't affect that. ??? I don't think many would agree with you, maybe no one. Are you actually saying a clavichord sustains longer than a piano using the sustaining pedal or that the pedal doesn't affect the rate of decay?
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rate of decay not length. If the pedal has an influence it's not very much.
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You just don't get it do you? It's about the rate of decay. The pedal doesn't affect that. ??? I don't think many would agree with you, maybe no one. Are you actually saying a clavichord sustains longer than a piano using the sustaining pedal or that the pedal doesn't affect the rate of decay?
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Decay is complex. A piano may have a longer decay but it starts its decay at a far greater rate - very unvocal like. Try these on a clavichord and you'll understand: http://home.planet.nl/~teuli049/JosqDuo0Collectie.pdf
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I think chopin_r_us might be talking about the ADSR envelope. You can see this graph (volume over time): There is a quick decrease of volume shortly after a piano key is pressed, then a long sustain. The "time that the key is held" certainly is longer on a piano, but I think the "decay" might be larger on a piano.
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Getting back to the original question, anybody have documentation on how musicians learned more about baroque performance?
In the mean time, I'll play my clavichord such that a key is depressed when the next key is played, thus increasing legatonitudiness.
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That probably means you have an unfretted clavichord. If you are playing a fretted clavichord, you may find that you have to separate some notes so that they will sound properly, which is one of the reasons that legato was not used as much.
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I think chopin_r_us might be talking about the ADSR envelope. You can see this graph (volume over time): There is a quick decrease of volume shortly after a piano key is pressed, then a long sustain. The "time that the key is held" certainly is longer on a piano, but I think the "decay" might be larger on a piano. This is something I've noticed on fortepiano and I wonder if it's what you're talking about: the difference between the sound of that initial "ping" and the sound of the sustained note is not as great as it is on a modern piano.
Last edited by hreichgott; 09/24/17 09:50 PM.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
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That's not very clear. I've found as the piano got louder over the 19th century it's initial decay became more contrasted. To put it another way, every advance in piano manufacture created more of an 'explosion' at the beginning of the note. Again, very unvocal.
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