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#2677243 - 4 hours ago Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 3
assi Online content
Junior Member
assi  Online Content
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 3
Hello everyone

I find my 5yo Yamaha Clavinova keys to be somewhat heavy/stiff. A simple coin test shows ~88g for middle C.
I find it very hard to play anything fast or repetitive, like for example 'Rage over the lost penny' by Beethoven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQsay5mL1n4
The left hand will exhaust me in seconds. I've tried wrist technique, but my wrist alone does not have enough power to push a chord all the way down.
I measured another clavinova, using coins, and I *think* that the weight is the same, BUT I felt a lot of difference, the keys felt stiff just in my piano.

So to my questions,
1. Is that possible that two pianos which shows the same weight in coin test, will still feel very different? I wonder if it is just me, or I just have a bad technique, I don't know. I just feel it is impossible to play anything articulated/fast in my piano.
2. What can be done, in Yamaha clavinova, to make the keyboard 'lighter'?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

Last edited by assi; 4 hours ago.
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#2677251 - 4 hours ago Re: Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova [Re: assi]  
Joined: Jul 2012
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peterws Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,471
Northern England.
I was seriously considering the purchase of a CLP 535 since they are so cheap at the moment, 'till they're all gone. The keys are heavy compared to my Roland, but I found I could play fast passages easily enough as long as I gave it the weight.
Consequently, i too would run out of steam, so i had a rethink about the buy.
I didn't!
I can easily fly through some easy fast passages on the Roland, but lightly. And it doesn't sap your energy. Must be some technique or other, since I'd been trying and failing; failing and trying for ages.
Others will offer better advice, but it may be time for a change . . ..certainly it'll be interesting to hear what others say about this. Good luck . . . .


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#2677256 - 4 hours ago Re: Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova [Re: assi]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,394
MacMacMac Offline
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North Carolina
Maybe it's time for a lube job. Mine seems to need it every year or two.

#2677257 - 4 hours ago Re: Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova [Re: assi]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,030
Morodiene Offline
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Morodiene  Offline
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It's hard to say, but chances are there is some work on your technique you can do.

How loud is your volume? You should have it set to about 75-80% (less with headphones). If it's not loud enough, you will usually end up playing heavier than needed to get the desired volume.

Have you played that Beethoven on other digitals and acoustics to see if you still have issues?

Explore these a bit before concluding that you need a new instrument.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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#2677261 - 4 hours ago Re: Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova [Re: Morodiene]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 3
assi Online content
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assi  Online Content
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I don't think that the volume is an issue, but anyway I play with headphone at about 50%.
This Beethoven piece is just an example, every fast passage is very hard to play.
And as I've said in the post, I've compared with the same model as mine, and mine felt heavier/stiffer. So I assume it is a problem in my own keyboard. I also think that releasing a key is actually what makes the stiff feeling, not just pressing it.
So any ideas are welcome, I can disassemble the keyboard if necessary

#2677276 - 2 hours ago Re: Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova [Re: assi]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 143
Belger1900 Offline
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Belger1900  Offline
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Germany
Normally yamaha has a very light key action. Strange.

#2677280 - 2 hours ago Re: Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova [Re: assi]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,394
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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North Carolina
Eh?
The Clavnovas generally have a very heavy action. Even when new, unworn.
Much heavier than the Rolands I tried.

#2677285 - 2 hours ago Re: Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova [Re: assi]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
DiggPlyV Offline
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Originally Posted by assi
Hello everyone

I find my 5yo Yamaha Clavinova keys to be somewhat heavy/stiff. A simple coin test shows ~88g for middle C.
I find it very hard to play anything fast or repetitive, like for example 'Rage over the lost penny' by Beethoven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQsay5mL1n4
The left hand will exhaust me in seconds. I've tried wrist technique, but my wrist alone does not have enough power to push a chord all the way down.
I measured another clavinova, using coins, and I *think* that the weight is the same, BUT I felt a lot of difference, the keys felt stiff just in my piano.

So to my questions,
1. Is that possible that two pianos which shows the same weight in coin test, will still feel very different? I wonder if it is just me, or I just have a bad technique, I don't know. I just feel it is impossible to play anything articulated/fast in my piano.
2. What can be done, in Yamaha clavinova, to make the keyboard 'lighter'?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks



I do own a Yamaha Clavinova, model CVP509. Usually I feel a difference when I change a setting under the function button, probably somewhere
under 'controller', but I'm not sure and don't know if that function is available for every model.


For repeated chords you could take a look at youtube videos by Graham Fitch. I think he mentioned for repeated chords something like
a wipe forward movement otherwise it will sound ugly.
I don't know what you mean by "wrist" technique where you use only your wrist?

#2677289 - 1 hour ago Re: Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova [Re: DiggPlyV]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 3
assi Online content
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assi  Online Content
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Yes I mean using only the wrist. I don't know a function which related to this in my CLP 430. Only the touch sensitivity (soft, hard, medium, fixed) - but it is useless.
Seen the video, and many others, yet I feel my keyboard is simply too heavy. Maybe I should just check more pianos.

#2677301 - 4 minutes ago Re: Fast playing, heavy keys. Yamaha clavinova [Re: assi]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 198
karvala Online content
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karvala  Online Content
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Posts: 198
Originally Posted by assi
Hello everyone
The left hand will exhaust me in seconds. I've tried wrist technique, but my wrist alone does not have enough power to push a chord all the way down.


I must be misunderstanding something here; you surely don't mean if moving exclusively from your wrist, you literally cannot push the notes all the way down?? Even someone who has never touched a piano or seen the inside of a gym can do that (as one-off, i.e. on a single chord in isolation) on even the heaviest piano action; the touch weight of a piano key varies considerably but is on average around 50g. If you really can't push them down with your wrist on your piano, and in particular if you *can* do that on another piano (including another Clavinova), then I would suggest a fault of some sort with yours.

In my opinion, Clavinovas, or at the least the 5xx series ones that I've tested, have excessively strong resistance part way as the hammer is throw up, but then somewhat collapse in the lower part of the movement. I would imagine the hammer mechanism would be where any problems of excessive resistance would occur. The key presses are also remarkably consistent across the keyboard (leaving aside the intention grading) on Clavinovas, so that's something else to check (hammer problems seem highly unlikely to occur everywhere).

Last edited by karvala; 3 minutes ago.

Broadwood, Yamaha U1 acoustic uprights; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Standard (D4, K2, Bl├╝thner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Lite, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II American D, TrueKeys Italian Grand, AS C7, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650 headphones, O2 amplifier :-)

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