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Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: RobR] #2676952
09/22/17 09:36 AM
09/22/17 09:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,273
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc

No they're not fallible. I trust my ears and with all modesty, i'm more than confident that i can discern the difference between a "suffering" piano tone and a good one.

Let's just face it, Pianoteq is getting better but it's far from "there" yet (talking tone and sound here only).

For those who are big fans: Enjoy ! But please don't read between the lines and twist every post by a person who is not in the fan club.

I was actually objective in my post , i gave credits where credits were due and vis-versa smile


I agree that critique felt particularly unwarranted in it's tone, and I took your review in the spirit in which it was offered; thanks for it.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Pete14] #2676958
09/22/17 09:54 AM
09/22/17 09:54 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 550
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Beakybird Offline
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OK, sorry


Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Beakybird] #2676959
09/22/17 10:02 AM
09/22/17 10:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 260
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RobR Offline
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Originally Posted by Beakybird
OK, sorry
No need to be sorry and no offense taken! I was just clarifying things:)

Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Pete14] #2676966
09/22/17 10:42 AM
09/22/17 10:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
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Alexsms Offline
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Hey, @tdwctdwc.

What do you mean by "Kronos Steinway D piano"? Is it a VST, or a voicebank of Korg DP? Just can't google it. Can it be used like a VST for me to try out?

Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Alexsms] #2676968
09/22/17 10:54 AM
09/22/17 10:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 260
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RobR Offline
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Originally Posted by Alexsms
Hey, @tdwctdwc.

What do you mean by "Kronos Steinway D piano"? Is it a VST, or a voicebank of Korg DP? Just can't google it. Can it be used like a VST for me to try out?
Yes It's a voicebank inside the Korg Kronos DP, not a vst. Only way to try it out is to visit any local instruments dealer who carries the Korg Kronos.

Here's a video showcasing its capabilities:

Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Pete14] #2676975
09/22/17 11:43 AM
09/22/17 11:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 114
Russia, Taganrog
Andrei Kuznetsov Offline
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Andrei Kuznetsov  Offline
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Russia, Taganrog
@tdwctdwc

I enjoyed reading your comments, respect your input a lot.

Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: toddy] #2676992
09/22/17 01:07 PM
09/22/17 01:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 103
New Mexico US
Stephen_Doonan Offline
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New Mexico US
Originally Posted by toddy
maybe it's all a bad case of forumitis.

Absolutely. thumb A nothing-better-to-do, can't do anything better contrarian's playground.

Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Pete14] #2676996
09/22/17 01:16 PM
09/22/17 01:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 200
Sydney, Australia
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ArtlessArt Offline
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 200
Sydney, Australia
Update 6.0.1 released. Just a quick noob question - Are you suppose to just install it over the current Ptq folder or uninstall and then reinstall?

Cheers


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Andrei Kuznetsov] #2677012
09/22/17 03:19 PM
09/22/17 03:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 260
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RobR Offline
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kuznetsov
@tdwctdwc

I enjoyed reading your comments, respect your input a lot.
Hey Andrei. Thank you !

Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: ArtlessArt] #2677030
09/22/17 04:36 PM
09/22/17 04:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
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David Farley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Update 6.0.1 released. Just a quick noob question - Are you suppose to just install it over the current Ptq folder or uninstall and then reinstall?

Cheers


I just ran the install. It installed over the existing for Mac and PC.

Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: EssBrace] #2677069
09/22/17 09:17 PM
09/22/17 09:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 432
petes1 Offline
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
I simply cannot believe that there is anyone out there who could honestly state that they believe PT (or the Roland) sounds better than a good sample engine.


You cannot honestly believe that someone may have a different subject opinion than yours? I honestly believe that it's surprising that anyone could you hold your honest belief.

Seriously, we have similar ears, but we all process what we hear very differently, and we all must respect that. Else all is lost.


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Pete14] #2677073
09/22/17 09:57 PM
09/22/17 09:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
It's just a figure of speech - it doesn't mean he literally doesn't believe it - it just means he is very surprised. It's really no big deal.

Greg.

Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Andrei Kuznetsov] #2677074
09/22/17 09:57 PM
09/22/17 09:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 432
petes1 Offline
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Posts: 432
Originally Posted by Andrei Kuznetsov
....Thank you guys for asking and for letting me express what I think.



From what I've seen and read so far, you've posted a very balanced and objective opinion (as objective as opinions can be) and show your own real-world applications of modeling vs. sampling. Many thanks for sharing these views with us.


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: sullivang] #2677077
09/22/17 10:10 PM
09/22/17 10:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 432
petes1 Offline
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Originally Posted by sullivang
It's just a figure of speech - it doesn't mean he literally doesn't believe it - it just means he is very surprised. It's really no big deal.

Greg.


And I disagree, and in fact his statement encapsulates the whole issue with this thread. The key to all this mess is that people will have subjective opinions and these opinions will differ. Period. The problem with some on this site is that they have trouble dealing with this, dealing with opinions that differ from their own, that someone might absolutely love Pianoteq, or that someone else might hate it.

Myself, I love that we have all these options available to us, that we can use PT when we want to, that *some* might even enjoy what it might give to them, that others, might not like the sounds as well as sampling, but appreciate that it might have significant utility for them (e.g., Andrei), and that sampling brings a whole different angle to all this with its own benefits and drawbacks, that are again just as subjective as for PT.

Vive la différence. Vive la variété.


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Pete14] #2677079
09/22/17 10:14 PM
09/22/17 10:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
S
sullivang Offline
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sullivang  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
Of course our opinions differ, and this case EssBrace is simply expressing his opinion - I see zero disrespect in that comment. Zero.

Greg.

Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: petes1] #2677155
09/23/17 07:16 AM
09/23/17 07:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,730
Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Online content
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EssBrace  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,730
Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by petes1
Originally Posted by sullivang
It's just a figure of speech - it doesn't mean he literally doesn't believe it - it just means he is very surprised. It's really no big deal.

Greg.


And I disagree, and in fact his statement encapsulates the whole issue with this thread. The key to all this mess is that people will have subjective opinions and these opinions will differ. Period.


And that's why a Forum exists.

If I understand you correctly, you identify an 'issue', which is that opinions differ and some negative things have been said about PianoTeq based on subjective opinions. You seem to me to be suggesting that differing subjective opinion can therefore only give rise to what you call the 'issue'. You call that a 'mess'. I call it sharing and comparing opinions. Where exactly is the mess? This is a Forum for opinion sharing after all.

Perhaps PianoWorld should be closed down because the vast majority of input here, on almost every topic, is from people sharing their subjective opinion. When it comes to the sound, playability and touch of a piano or something emulating a piano I would have thought there is very little BUT subjective opinion out there. Some people like things, others don't. We all have reasons behind our liking or disliking of something. And in the main those reasons will be subjective.

Personally I believe the real 'issue' here is that some people, including me, find the tone of PianoTeq lacking. And when it all boils down to gravy I don't think you, or some other PianoTeq fans, deal with that reality very well. I rather suspect that if the whole thread was full of plaudits for PT from every contributor I don't think you'd be so concerned about how it's all so subjective and therefore, in your opinion, such a 'mess'. No, I think in those circumstances you'd be a happy little camper.


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Pete14] #2677159
09/23/17 08:22 AM
09/23/17 08:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 246
france
Z
zack! Offline
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Posts: 246
france
Hi, just my 2 cents, that doesn't worth much, as I am neither a pianteq user, nor practising myself piano.But I am interested in music, and technology too, so I try to follow what pianoteq is doing.

I tried to listen demos of new version, especially v5 vs v6, and also compare for example Bach demo on Steinway D vs recordings of Gould of Bach (I think he used staeinway D, but not 100% sure). Couple of hour maximum for the whole tests.

my conclusions :

In "absolute", I found Pianoteq sound very convincing. For me pieces are musical, I can ear interpretation/intend of muscian. Antd the physical complexicity of the real sound, for example show the liveliness of the sound in time, and space (decay, fading of sound that evolve in term of timber, resonance / pulse in sterephonic pan, etc), or the impact of velocity in term of timber of the note. So for me, I see o lot of subtleness and singularity of each moment of sound production. I still find on some instrument, for some frequencies (medium), and intensity a sound that I find to "pure" or "well rounded" (like a bell sound), to be realistic. But quite rare.

The pianoteq v5 vs v6 comparaison show this quite well.

What schocked me the most, was demo vs Gloud recording (CD from the web). Perhaps it is just a preset thing, and mic placement, I don't know. But, I feel the gloud recording has much more dynamism in general (that is variation of sound amplitude during the play). To be more precise, the "front" of the melody detach more from the rest of the sustained sound. Could be lack of "attack" in the sound, or too much "energy" in the decays in the board.

In old version of pianotq, this was even worse, lack of clarity, and a kind of "soup" of rreasnonnaces in the board (making like a permanent "medium" noise", in the backend, comapre to the front end).Now, it seems this is getting a lot better, but still I was surprised. Because, in absolute (withoub A/B testing), I was very pleased by pianotq v6 realistic and sophistacted sound synthesis...

I like also the electri piano and honher collections in pianoteq. Really cool for me.

All in one, good progress for this version. Happy to see that modartt continue to walk the walk, even if this is not as quick as we would like.

I understand very well hte discussion between "playbility"/expressivness vs realistic/hifi copycat debate. For me, these instruments even if not completly "realitci", are enough "goond sounding" and "expresive, for a musician to forget computer, be inside the "music" and "emotion" during the play.

Any comments on these "non expert" feedback ?

Last edited by zack!; 09/23/17 08:31 AM.
Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Pete14] #2677165
09/23/17 08:32 AM
09/23/17 08:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,868
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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Posts: 3,868
Sofia, Bulgaria
Gould is a famous Yamaha player. He had his own Yamaha grand, specially prepared and used on many of his recordings as far as I know.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: zack!] #2677168
09/23/17 08:47 AM
09/23/17 08:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,633
Groove On Offline
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Originally Posted by zack!
Any comments on these "non expert" feedback ?

Your feedback is pretty much in-line with what everybody has been saying:

1. Pianoteq 6 is much improved and sounds really good
2. But it's still lacking when compared to samples, recordings and the real thing.


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Re: Pianoteq 6! [Re: Pete14] #2677170
09/23/17 08:57 AM
09/23/17 08:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 246
france
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zack! Offline
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france
Oups, :-) I told you I was not an expert !
So can the yamaha vs Steinway explain that difference, or this is something that belong to pianoteq technology ?
Perhaps it is possible, as I think (but not sure again), that gloud was upset of clrarity and articulation, so perhaps piano choici and tuning and recording emphasis this "style"...
Someone share my feeling with this idea of lack of "dynamism" and "front melody" vs "backend esannace in the board" balance ?
Or just a quick mis listening / judgment ?

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