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Hey there everyone, I have read the various forum topics here regarding Brodmann pianos.

I'm quite fond of the PE-187 and am considering it for my home.

May I kindly sak how owners have found them from a reliability standpoint? Do they stay in tune well? Have you had many maintenance issues .etc? Do you find that the finish is less durable than other brands (like Yamaha or Kawai)?

Thanks so much

Hello, Fots --

I'm sorry no one has responded to your question yet. If you type PE-187 in the search window, you will find tons of discussion of it. A lot of people are interested in it and are talking about it, Including me. Interestingly, the discussion seems to get a little edgy only when the relative quality of hugely more expensive pianos comes up.

Everyone who has a PE-187 seems to like it very much. Yes, they stay in tune, no significant maintenance issues, no one has complained about the finish. It really is a matter of the manufacturer, Parsons, being super competitive by offering a very, very good piano for a very, very good price. That's the strategy being applied by some of the Chinese piano companies. Pearl River with their Ritmuller line is another.

My own Ritmuller GH187 R was delivered a month ago. It's 5'7". The Ritmuller GH188 R is the same size as your Brodmann and is almost exactly the same price. Both are extremely well reviewed and liked by their owners. If my playing improves a whole lot over the next year, I'll probably trade in my Ritmuller for the Brodmann you're looking at. I want something bigger, and I prefer Brodmann's styling to Ritmuller's.

If you'd like, do let me know how your piano shopping progresses. Personally, I find the whole thing fascinating.

Cheers --
Aspirin

Hello Fots,

I do not own a 187 BUT I do own a Brodmann BG-212 (7' semi-concert grand) and I can personally add my own testimony that Brodmann pianos are of very high quality. I needed to upgrade my piano as my repertoire was becoming more demanding and I came across this piano on Craigslist.

I was a little worried at first since the piano was so massive and my living room wasn't exactly a concert hall, but when I played on the piano, the touch was very refined and in my opinion even rivaled against some of the best pianos I have had an opportunity to play on (New York Steinway, Kawai, Yamaha CX, and the German manufactured Seiler pianos). The action was smooth and easy to depress (for repeated note pieces), the bass is powerful but not too overpowering, and the treble is considerably clear but not bright like the Japanese made pianos.

My technician said that the piano was not too difficult to work on and that it had a very good sound for a 7'-Chinese made piano. Now in terms of the PE-187, I would assume that the components are identical to my larger grand. I also understand that the PE-187 is supposedly modeled after the great New York Steinway Model A which is one of the best pianos I have played under 7'. Overall, Brodmann is a line of pianos which I will recommend to anyone and I believe the Chinese manufacturer has a very promising future along with the other Chinese made piano brands: Hailun, Ritmuller, Baldwin, and Kayserburg Artist line. Get it! You will not regret it.

Hope this helps!

Fots, there is a regular contributor to this blog named joe80. He is a British professional concert pianist who bought a Brodmann PE-187 in the UK 5-10 years ago. It was not a happy experience.

There are plenty of people on this blog who like their Brodmann PE-187, but you should read the numerous posts by joe80 on this subject before you make a purchase decision. Joe is very even-handed, and he is not vindictive toward Brodmann. (He actually blamed Brodmann's UK distributor at the time, rather than Brodmann itself, for a lot of his problems with his piano.) Perhaps joe80 will post a reply to this thread himself.

Good luck with your piano shopping.

Just to clarify, I made a mistake up there. My 5'7" Rit is GH170 R, not that other number I cited.
Aspiring

Yes, joe80 , has wrote numerous articles detailing his experience with his previous Brodmann 187. For the most part his encounter came across as a warning, in regards to his own experience, and what he was looking for in a piano.
I feel it is unfortunate that some of the past dialogues on PW regarding this specific piano have been swayed by Joe's comments. He didn't outright put this model down, but his continuing story through several threads that arose in relation to this piano, seemingly coming from a very qualified pianist to comment, cast a rather dour portrayal of this piano that previously had very fine reviews by Larry Fine and others in the industry.

I happen to be an owner of the Brodmann 187 , purchased new in 2010. It has a beautiful tone, action, finish, construction and appearance. I realize it may not have the subtleties and exquisite craftsmanship of a higher end piano. It has served me very well in my playing to this point. Tuning stability has been excellent. Nothing to report for any issues arising. It has a very resonate bass and very sweet treble. Very even throughout the keyboard in playing.
I have plans this coming winter to have a piano technician do an overall regulation, voicing, and tuning. Up to this point it had the initial setup when I purchased it, including regulation/tuning and then ongoing tunings.

This isn't the finest piano out there by any means, but it has an amazing price relative to others in it's size and overall quality.
And most important of all is that an instrument feels right for you.

I suggest buyers should read this information, however each owner's goals and needs are different. A professional pianist has different requirements from an instrument, and when we spend so much time on a Steinway B or D that tends to become our "standard piano". While I might complain about the shortcomings of one particular B I play at work.... it's still an awfull lot of piano and big shoes to fill.
I repectfully disagree. This is one of the strengths of a forum - that multiple viewpoints can be shared and we're not going to agree on everything. If the happy owners put in their 2 cents worth each reader can make up their own mind for their own needs.Fine's reviews (IMHO) are indicating it performs well for what it is, and in it's price range. A working pianist's viewpoint is going to be a little different. The two aren't really so much in conflict with each other.
Yes I agree, and I'm glad there are as many options available as there are.

A professional pianist, such as joe80 is looking at things from a different perspective. I accord considerable weight to his statements.

The OP does not indicate their level of ability and the questions posed regard tuning stability, maintenance, reliability and finish. A professional pianist would probably be less concerned about finish if the piano performs well, so with that in mind I'm speculating the OP is not a professional. Hence I believe Dara's response is probably the one most relevant to Fots.

I agree. Being a professional pianist, joe80 would play a piano 4-6 hours per day or longer - much longer than an amateur pianist - and he would expect nuances of touch and tone from his instrument that an amateur would not. I don't know how good a pianist the OP (Fots) is, or whether he would need or want a piano as sturdy and refined as joe80 needs..

Hi everyone....

Yes I think the Brodmann is fine for a hobbyist, an occasional player, even someone who will play lightly for a couple of hours a day. It does have a good sound and touch when set up properly, and it has some admirable qualities at a sensible price.

However, the one I bought was not up to the job of coping with a heavy workload in the way that a Yamaha or Kawai can. This is a shame because the piano was marketed heavily as an alternative to Yamaha and Kawai for professional pianists. It did not live up to this, and I know several Brodmann owners from that time who have had the same experience.

I re-iterate that I am only talking about my particular Brodmann piano regarding the shortcomings of the model, and that I know personally four other pianists who have sold their Brodmann pianos and moved on from them.

It's also important to note that we purchased our Brodmann pianos between 2007 and 2009 (mine was a 2007), and I can't speak for the quality of the brand now. It is highly probable that the current Brodmann pianos are of higher quality than the 2007 stock. It's also true that they are of a higher price than the 2007 models, but perhaps that's a realisation from the factory behind Brodmann that the improvements needed warranted a higher price on the final product. They are still competitively priced when compared to Yamaha and Kawai, maybe not so when compared to Hailun and Ritmuller.

When I sold my Brodmann, Paul Leverett prepared it for sale for me. His take on it was that while it wasn't a high-end product there were many admirable qualities - it has a very stable wrest plank, a high quality soundboard, a good keyboard, high quality hammer heads, high quality damper heads, good bridge work and a good design. The fit and finish were quite poor - the pedals were mounted squint, the soundboard wasn't optimal in the treble, and there was a problem with the capo bar, and the glues were questionable since they dried out very quickly, in Scotland, which is fairly humid.

All of that said, there are many Brodmann owners who have bought later models who have had a positive experience with the brand. The brand is now under a different management structure, everything seems to be of a more slick and professional quality, and it seems that the pianos might just last that little bit longer.

Yamaha C3X and Kawai GX3 are almost certainly higher quality than the BG/PE187, but they are also double the price, so you have to weigh up the costs and benefits.

I'm not slating the brand, I'm not saying don't buy. If people on here don't like what I say about my Brodmann then fine, disagree with it, it's a public forum. It may be that for you, OP, the Brodmann meets your needs perfectly, and in that case you'd have a piano at the quality you require for the money you're willing to spend which is an ideal scenario.

I think your report is very reasonable and fair. Perhaps many people misunderstand the work load on a professional's instrument.

If I may, I would really suggest that you cough up the extra bit of money for a Hailun 178 or 198 if you can afford it. The PE-187 I played at a store really lacked dynamic range in the bass, which as an advanced pianist I consider a deal breaker. The Hailun 178 on the other hand completely shocked me with how much power was available for such a small piano. I would take the HG178 over the PE187 despite the loss in length.

trigalg693 has an excellent point. I myself have played on a Hailun 178 grand and it was incredible. The action AND tone of the piano were very refined with the bass being very rich and beefy and a very singing treble register. I almost purchased a Hailun 178 as well that is, if it hadn't been purchased before me.

Not to say that Brodmann is a poor reputation company, do take this post the wrong way. I love my Brodmann as I stated in a previous post and I will continue to love it for as long as I can play on it. But since you are in the process of purchasing a piano, consider a Hailun or Ritmuller as well, they are excellent pianos.

I really dislike when people go into a thread like this an suggest an alternate make or product, but I would echo that if I were shopping for a Chinese piano, I would first consider Hailun.

When I read threads like this, it corroborates my perception of the piano industry as a whole. It is basically 90% marketing, salesmanship and perception and 10% reality. I remember several years ago when the new Brodmann was the best thing since sliced bread among new pianos made in China. European designers with lots of experience venturing out to create a new brand to be manufactured in China (due to very low labor cost) and marketed as a lower-cost, high-end instrument on par with other more reputable, but more expensive brands.

Now, it appears that they are perhaps not quite so much a high-end piano packaged as a low-cost alternative for middle-class consumers with not a lot of money to spend on a new piano, but a mediocre alternative no different than many other consumer oriented brands like Hailun.

Yes, I did play a new Brodmann 48" upright many years ago when I was in the market for a nice piano that I could afford. And, it played nice and sounded nice. But it didn't woo me over quite enough to buy it.

All this kind of reminds me of the companies who hire well known actors, artists and celebrities to advertise their products. They are attempting to sell perception more so than the product itself, which may or may not be all that great. But because a well know celebrity is advertising it (for a very high paying contract) it must be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Interesting... sort of like an on-going, long running soap-opera. Stay tuned for the next episode of "The never-ending world of piano perception...

Rick

Any discussion of new Asian piano X always elicits comparisons with new Asian pianos Y and Z.... So, how about the new Fandrich designed Webers?

But you are assuming that the opinion/experience of ONE person is the absolute truth about a piano.

The particular piano in question could have been an outlier or the negative review could even be wrong or biased. One can always find people who don't like or have had bad experiences with any piano, even the most exclusive Tier 1 makes. Two of the Brodmann models over 6' were listed as staff picks in the PB, so some reviewers really liked the piano.

Alas, one thing that no reviewer has the time to discover is the long term reliability of the instrument, the original topic of the thread. Will it fall apart in five years? How could you tell?

+1

If you want to analyze longevity, under harsh playing conditions, look at the brands that many of the music programs at colleges and universities use. Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway and Baldwin come to mind right off the bat; of course, the older US made Baldwins are more or less out of that picture now, at least to a large extent.

Rick