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Hi OP. I've done both of those (lessons every week, lessons every fortnight) and both work for different reasons. I would base it on the music and your own growth. As a beginner, I took one 30 minute lesson per week. As I advanced, my teacher and I mutually decided to change that to one hour long lesson every two weeks. Once the music I was playing was complex enough to require it, the choice became obvious.

In your place, I would start with one 30 minute lesson weekly and change it if necessary. The right answer should be obvious to you in a short amount of time. Regardless, I wouldn't agonize much over the decision.

I'm still working on fairly short, easy pieces (1 or 2 pages at approx. Grade 2 or 3 by ABRSM standards). For new pieces at this level I can learn the notes quickly and the majority of the work is in getting it up to speed and working on dynamics/phrasing. I like to have several pieces on the go at a time, including one that is a bit harder so that it takes me longer to work on it (at the moment this is a Grade 4 piece that requires the pedal).

I try to practise every day for at least half an hour but I find that, once I sit down at the piano, time can just fly by.



Unfortunately not. I'm still looking for a teacher but, realistically, I'd have to travel to them (my living arrangements mean that having lessons at my home is not possible).





It's good that your teacher takes into account the fact that you have two weeks between lessons when setting work for you to do. My teacher rarely set me any homework and I was always trying to find things on my own to fill the time.




I stopped with my previous teacher because I was fed up with feeling as though they weren't taking me seriously as a learner. They just couldn't seem to grasp the fact that I wanted to learn more than just bashing out a couple of tunes (not saying there's anything wrong with that but I want more). Often they would say things like "Normally I'd explain 'abc' a bit more or work on 'xyz' but, because you're an adult/just learning for fun we'll leave it there". If I responded with "actually, I want to learn 'abc'" then they'd reluctantly go over it but, the very next time something cropped up, it would be back to "You don't need to know this because you're just learning for fun" . They rarely set homework and, when they did, it was only a little bit and usually only because I'd asked for it. They always seemed surprised that I'd practised for more than 5 minutes between lessons and couldn't understand why I'd bothered to teach my self scales? lol

I always left there feeling as though I was being treated like an easy paycheck for them (sorry if that sounds harsh but it's true). It was like they felt they didn't need to teach me properly or put the same amount of effort into my lessons as they did for their 'real students'. I was basically self-teaching and paying them to be my audience once a week.

Once they even forgot that I had a lesson. I turned up to be told "You're don't have a lesson today.". They even went to get their schedule to show me that I wasn't booked in that week only to find, lo and behold, there was my name in the book staring back at us. Oops! Then they let me in and gave me a 'sort of' lesson that they (for obvious reasons) hadn't prepared for. *sigh*





Piano is my hobby as well and I certainly have no aspirations about making a career out of it, but it was the 'relaxed' approach that put me off.

I consider myself to be in a fortunate situation at the moment where, although I don't have a lot of money, I have a lot of time to focus on things that I enjoy doing. Of course, the ideal situation would be to have a lot of time and money but we can't always have the ideal situation, right?

I was willing (and still am) to put in a lot of practise time to achieve my goals and I hated the feeling that this was basically being ignored. All I was expected to do was turn up every week and anything more was a bonus.

I like to have challenging hobbies and, if I'm not being pushed, then I don't enjoy it and I lose interest. It's very frustrating wanting to work more and put more effort in only to be told that "nah, you don't need to do that".

Is it really so much to ask that I have a teacher who will teach me?.


Erm...sorry, that turned into a bit of a ramble towards the end. I guess I just haven't had much luck with teachers (the example above was the most extreme one though).


Back to my original question: I think I'm going to try the 30 minute weekly lessons and see how I go from there. I'm still working on short pieces and, although I could probably learn harder ones, I have a lot of basic 'kinks' to work out before I could do them justice, so shorter but more regular lessons might work out better for me, at least for now.

Haunted Keys, sounds like a good plan.

Yes, your earlier teachers were crappy (shamefully so). Looking on the bright side: yes, it cost you a lot of money, but at least it focused your mind on what you want out of piano lessons.

I'd guess that many (? most) teachers find that their adult students do indeed learn the piano just as a side hobby and 'for fun' and not take it seriously, unless the student says he wants to do exams - remember the ex-Shadow Chancellor and Strictly Come Dancing star Ed Balls?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czqtjk_iGFU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsak52DMReQ

The teachers in the Piano Teachers forum regularly comment on why they don't teach adults, for this reason.

A friend who took up piano at 60 had the same problem initially with his teacher (who specialised in teaching adults) - who started him at first on a book with 'adult songs' rather than start with the real basics, as he would with all his child students. He only switched to using a basic (children's) beginner primer when my friend insisted that he wanted to be taught the same way as any other child student, with nothing glossed over in the name of expediency, just so that he can get into playing 'proper tunes'. His teacher told him he was actually the first adult student he had who wanted to learn everything "properly" with no 'boring steps' skipped.......

I think if a teacher is not going to take an adult seriously then she shouldn't teach adults at all or she should give a discount for her sub-par lessons. I have no respect for such teachers as they are not professionals worth of my time.

Right now I have a teacher like your 60 yo friend, Bennevis 😊 I even had an assignment to say the alphabet note names up and down multiple times a day, then with a skip, and I did it every time I was in my car.:) I really love to be taught the 'children way'..

Hounded Keys, you have a good plan!

I don't totally blame teachers of adult students---- the blame should also be placed with the MANY adult students who want the 'easy way' to learn a few tunes. These are not the members of these forums, but the others who think learning the piano will be a quick, easy fix to play XXXX.

I would venture that many teachers of adult students , when they realize the particular student wants to learn things in a progressive, detailed way, will be delighted to comply. It took me a few lessons of saying 'I want to learn this as if it were for a Carnegie Hall performance' , that I wanted NO SHORTCUTS or GOOD ENOUGHS. before my teacher believed me.

If we encounter a teacher who is not flexible enough to teach in the way we need....... we need to move on, as there are many out there who will teach us with the same level of detail they teach their younger students.

Bennevis, first I continue being glad that your friend took the bull by the horn and insisted on wanting to get the skills. A small comment on this:

It is quite possible that for some of his other adult students, he assumed they wanted the quick-fix approach, taught that way, and that at least some of those students assumed this is how it's done and went along with it, or were too shy to speak up.
The first time I had lessons, on a different instrument, I felt uneasy by the 5th month when I graduated to yet another grade level, and finally asked to review the previous grade. I didn't have the vocabulary or knowledge of music study to verbalize more than that, and the material was zipped through even faster. It wasn't until about the 4th year that I could verbalize things, having learned about learning partly by trial and error, partly otherwise, and learned that this teacher actually preferred teaching in the manner that I wanted to learn. By that time my "technique" had many holes and distortions. I took a first stab at resuming last year, and went back to the very first basic thing to rebuild.
A teacher who teaches on a given assumption about his students will tend to reap what he sows. How will a student know what is missing? However, in this case the student (the OP) did say over and over that he wanted to learn properly. That is just maddening.

It's a shame that teachers have this opinion of adults as fickle and fleeting students and I'm sure there's some merit to it. There must be a lot of adult students who do just want to learn to bash out a few tunes or who go into it thinking that it's going to be easy and get disillusioned when there's no 'quick fix' available to them. However, I can't help but wonder whether or not it's (at least partially) a self-fulfilling prophecy as well? How many teachers just assume that adult students only wants to learn the 'fun' stuff and never even bother to ask them if they're interested in things like theory? Is it fair to assume that the next adult student you take on will be 'flaky' just because the last one was? If you were a teacher would you refuse to take on a boy as a new student because the last one you taught gave it up when it clashed with football?




I'm sure you're right and I hope that I do eventually find a teacher who's willing to take me seriously. I also realise that (rightly or wrongly) the onus is largely on me to prove to the teacher that I am serious, however, if I'm doing everything that I can to show them that I'm interested in learning properly and that I'm willing to put the effort in (practising regularly, asking for homework etc.) then I'm not sure what else I can try.

Going back to the teacher in my example above; I actually told them one week that I wanted to start working towards exams and, I kid you not, the very next lesson they came out with "You don't need to learn this because you're just learning for fun and you don't want to take exams." I had to pause a moment before politely correcting them and saying actually, I told you just last week that I do want to take exams and asked you what I'd need to work on for it. Their response was "..Oh...ok..."

In spite of my being very clear about what I wanted from my lessons (asking to be taught properly and telling them that I wanted to learn theory), they continually 'reset' every week to their "adults only learn for fun" mode. Their attitude towards me and my lessons never changed.


I suppose, when I stopped lessons with them, they may well have seen it as just another unreliable adult student quitting instead of realising that I left because they gave me no reason to stay.




I've actually been told by some teachers that they don't teach adults and I don't mind being told this because (although I may not agree with their reasons) at least they were honest about not wanting to teach me from the start, so neither of us wasted our time. I find that approach far more respectful than teachers taking on students that they have no intention of teaching properly.

From reading the Teachers Forum, many teachers do indeed assume an adult student wants the "fast and easy" route, based on their experience with adult students. However, if an adult student says they want more (as Haunted Keys did), then the student should get detailed instruction (as your friend did and HK did not). The teacher can't be a mind reader, but (as Keystring point out), the student has to know that the "fast and easy" instruction is the default mode and that they have to ask for the other. This is a problem for someone starting out who doesn't already know the ropes.

It is possible for an adult student to be a serious student and not go the exam route.

How about paying for weekly 45-minute lessons for a set period of time to get yourself back up and running, then switching to every other week? 30 minutes can only be effective with true beginners who would be working on one-note at a time melodies only.

edited to add:

So let's say you can only afford to pay for 30 minute weekly lessons, and let's say those lesson cost $30 each, and 45 minute lessons cost $45. It takes (4) 30-min lessons = $120 and (4) 45-min lessons = $180. So if you waited 2 weeks to start and saved that $60 you would have spent on 30-min lessons, you could then take a month of 45-min lessons weekly, and then switch to every other week after that.

Haunted Keys, given your history I think you should be looking at more than length of lessons and length of practising. If going for a new teacher, you would want to tell the teacher that you want to go after any skills that you need and may be missing. I don't know if you can tell your history without appearing to bash the previous teacher). A good teacher would assess your playing in order to find out where the holes are - especially if she or he feels free to do so (you're cooperative/want it).

With this kind of teacher you may experience lessons in a manner you haven't experienced before, as well as ways of practising and things to focus on that are quite new and unfamiliar. The experience of practising itself may be way different. If you learn to focus on skills in certain ways, for example, you might find that 10 minutes feel like a major workout after which you need to rest, but that stays with you in a way that nothing has in the past. "How long to practice" goes out the window until you get a handle on this. The 10 minutes I mentioned might translate into 5 X 10 min. = 50 min. It may also extend to things popping into your head while talking a walk, doing groceries, or commuting to work.

I think from reading the posts there seems to have been a poor dynamic between the OP and his previous teacher.

This is what seemed to have led to stopping the previous lessons.

I think the solution is to try and find the best teacher that you like and find comfortable.

I do not think the time of the lessons or length is so important.

HTH

Haunted Keys, I have no other explanation than that your previous teacher is senile. I mean, how can someone see you every week and forget something as fundamental as your interest in taking exams? Both of my teachers could remember specific things we worked on from several months before.

There are other reasons, and senility is the least likely - unless she is also forgetful in teaching the younger students, the ones who are deemed to benefit from serious instruction.
One thing that popped in memory happened when I first join PW, and somebody was bemused by the teacher stamping happy faces on completed pieces, for an adult. A senior teacher who is no longer around pointed out that happy faces and stars are also ways for teachers to keep track of what they have taught, since all these students can jumble together with all those individual lessons.
Another thing is attitude and categorizing. To some degree one does need to categorize people. You wouldn't teach a professional musician learning a new instrument in the same way that you teach a 6 year old child or as you would a novice to music. So the teacher might plan lessons and goals accordingly from the get go. But some people have their categories so entrenched that they can't see the person in front of them. It's a similar shape as prejudice (or maybe it's the same thing). It's like anything the person says and does gets filtered through preconceived expectations.
It exists. It just isn't usually this blatant and extreme.

"Blame" strikes me as harsh. The average adult absolute musical beginner has no idea what they're getting into, and thus vastly underestimates the time and practice necessary to achieve basic competency, much less sound like a favorite recording artist. Playing music is much harder than it looks to someone who's never tried, and it's easy for a newbie conclude "Looks like I'm not talented, huh?" when it doesn't "come naturally." Incompetence is way more stressful to an independent adult than the average kid, who's exposed to unfamiliar tasks that are hard to master on a regular basis.

So I think teachers keep encountering adult students stressing because it's not easy means to them they aren't talented. They respond by prioritizing the ability soon "bash out" a few favorite tunes to prevent immediate despair. A person who has had lessons on any instrument as a kid has a psychological advantage in having some idea how much practice is involved.

I agree with you tangleweeds people do not realize how time intensive learning music is if you want to play well. Those people who play well is not by accident. It is like anything else, if you want to be good at a sport such as golf it takes a lot of practice. I had a friend who took piano lessons then stopped and I asked why, she said it was too much practice. I have friends ask me should they get their PhD, I tell them you have to want it with a passion and live it for 5-7 years. However, then it ends and you get your degree hopefully ( I read there is a 50% attrition rate). With piano there is no end it is continuous. Lets face it, not everyone who wants to play the piano is going to have talent for the instrument, same as not everyone who runs track with be an Olympian. However, with practice and time investment people could become good it just may take more work for some. I don't have natural talent, I work at practicing. However, my goal is to enjoy the journey. Deb

This actually might be an option. It looks like I won't be able to start lessons until next month anyway because I need to wait until I find out what my class schedule is before I can commit to a lesson time. If I put the money that I would have spent on lessons aside each week until then, then I could use it to top up for a month of slightly longer lessons before dropping down to 30 minutes. In fact, if the teacher is willing to do it, I could possibly afford to occasionally (maybe once a month or once every couple of months) have a 45 minute lesson instead of a 30 minute one but I'm not sure how they'd feel about that. I suppose it couldn't hurt to ask?




I'm not sure if it's possible for me to talk about my experiences without appearing to be too negative about my previous teacher either. It's certainly not my intention to bash my them. I've tried to be careful even talking about it on here and avoided giving any information that might identify them (not even saying 'he' or 'she'). I've tried to just stick to mentioning the points that bothered me. For all I know they might be an amazing teacher for other (younger) students or for adults who actually like the laid back 'fun' approach, so judging them purely from my experiences hardly seems fair (I never saw them with any of their other students so I have nothing to compare my experience to).

I think my experience was probably an extreme situation anyway so, hopefully, it shouldn't even be necessary to mention it to a new teacher at all. If I approach it by being as clear as possible from the start about what I want and expect from lessons then, hopefully, my new teacher will listen to me. Even if they're a little sceptical in the beginning and I have prove myself to them before they'll believe me. I'm ok with that. It was the fact that my previous teachers' approach and attitude never changed in spite of my efforts that was the problem.




PS: People seem to have assumed that I'm a guy from my post, so I should probably point out that I'm a woman.

Dear Haunted Keys, there are online lessons sites, one is takelessons.com, Zoen.com, and the other is Lessonface.com. I have never taken online piano lessons. I am considering online theory lessons since I am having difficulty finding an instructor for face-to-face (for an intermediate level) since my theory instructor for 2 and a half years left to pursue other interests. The two local instructors the two contacted near my home only want beginners. Some people on the online site will offer a free trail lesson. It may be worth a look.

As a guitarist for 60 years, guitar teacher for over 25 years, my favorite choice is ( for adults) two hours every two weeks. I now am a beginner on piano and blessed to have a famous jazz pianist for a teacher. Grumpy as heck but he studied via Bill Evans and is a monster. He has all his own stuff gives me a whole plate of work and is ok w sky ping in between w questions.Thebest thing is to get as much $ as u can afford and take a lesson w a great established player. I once took a two hour lesson w the great Barry Greene on guitar and he gave me so much in two hours that I was good for 3 months. Sorry but 30 mins is not enough except for children. I find a healthy combination of private lessons, skype, DVD s, the internet and playing w others a good combination. I struggle w piano cause guitar playing ruins your chops imho for piano. I tour as a guitarist so I have to keep up those chops but love piano so much that I have to force myself to practice guitar. It's like guitar pales next to piano. Ironically the piano helps me play better guitar, Wish it was other way around.

Dear Hotstings, I agree 30 min is not long enough for an adult. I would at least consider at a minimum 1 hour every 2 weeks if you could. I take 2 hours a week which is a good fit for me. I like every week as I think that reinforcement helps a student to improve and weekly lessons may keep students motivated. I prefer face to face for music lessons, but I understand that is not always possible especially if you are looking for a specific instructor.