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Trying to silence a noisy Casio action #2675877
09/17/17 02:04 PM
09/17/17 02:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 683
Finland
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clothearednincompo Online content OP
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clothearednincompo  Online Content OP
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 683
Finland
I had a look at reducing some of the key noise in my old worn out Privia PX-800. AFAIK it's a 2007 model, sold as new in 2009 and I got it as used, so don't know the total "mileage".

At least one problem seems to be an increased gap where the key meets the hammer. I wrapped some teflon tape/PTFE tape/water blocking tape around the white keys' bottoms to fix this and compressed it with a flat head screw driver inside the hole:

[Linked Image]

I captured some video during the process and probably won't be doing any fancy editing, so here's some raw footage.

Before:


There are many ways in which the action can make noises. The hammer hitting the so called "felt strip" (I don't know what Casio uses) is not an issue in my case. A "thump" is acceptable. The keys bounce quite much when returning and there's some plasticky rattle included. And then there's a clacking noise in some keys when tapping them gently but not pressing down.

Trying out a window seal strip fix suggested on Casio Forums:


In my model there's originally nothing between the keys and the metal rail above them. (The one with the label texts.) The white strip is a 1.5 layers of D shaped window seal strip. It has some effect on the key return bounce and rattle. Too much of it could obviously affect the key return speed and ruin the piano.

Here I've treated the G key with some teflon tape:


It was one of the noisiest keys when returning up along with the A key next to it.

Removing a white key:


The camera angle isn't good. Basically I'm using a screw driver to push the back of the key upwards and twisting the plastic tabs on both sides of the key to release it.

This is where and how the key and the hammer meet each other:


There's some constant rubbing in use. And apparently some lubricant too, but probably the black plastic nubs wear out in use over time.

Inserting a white key:


Align the front part of the key and the hammer first and then press the back of the key down until it snaps into place.

More of that clacking noise when tapping gently:


Too much teflon tape will ruin the key return:


Just take some off until the key works properly.

After the "repair":



There's some improvement and also some noises left. And it's probably only a temporary fix. I didn't tweak any of the black keys.

Bonus photo - The key dimensions in centimeters:

[Linked Image]

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Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2675890
09/17/17 03:01 PM
09/17/17 03:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 200
Sydney, Australia
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ArtlessArt Offline
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 200
Sydney, Australia
Very nice job. How long did it take you to fix all the keys. Is this the same action with the newer models PX160, PX760, PX860, etc?


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2675909
09/17/17 05:27 PM
09/17/17 05:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 100
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Snail Offline
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A few days ago I watched a video of a 2 million dollars Fisk church organ being played and making so much key noises as a bunch of the crapiest digiltal pianos put together, so I think that is something we must accept as it is. Anyway thanks for de videos, they are very instructional.

Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2675929
09/17/17 08:02 PM
09/17/17 08:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 81
Canada
Tone Deaf Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 81
Canada

Thanks for taking the time to video your "repair" attempts of the PX-800. I thought I was the only one with such a hideous sounding dp. My PX-800, bought new in 2010 developed the same noises as yours after ~2.5 yrs. of light use, about 1 -1.5 hrs daily. It got to the point my family asked me NOT to use the headphones as the on board speakers helped to mask the noises that could be heard through out the whole house. Casio's solution was for me to disassemble Whole the dp and haul the Whole unit to a repair "centre" or they could send "someone" out at $60 per hour to look at, even though I had a 3 yr. warranty.

I did neither. Instead I bought the new Kawai CA67 and to date with daily use ~2.5 -3 hrs., I have had no problems...knock on wood. I still have the PX-800 because I'm too embarassed to sell it for money or give it away. Think I will open it up and using your great videos do a bit of "surgery", I have nothing to lose.

@Snail, I beg to differ with you; noisy, cheaply assembled action that thuds, clunks and is wobblely every which way does nothing entice one to practice or play of fun. No, we do not have to accept that.

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Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2675947
09/17/17 09:56 PM
09/17/17 09:56 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 521
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Beakybird Offline
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My noisy Casio PX-160 was under warranty. I brought it to a repair center 30 minutes from home. In the meantime, I bought the much superior Roland FP-90. After 1 month, I picked up the repaired keyboard, and the receptionist told me that they had changed the whole keyboard mechanism.

Hopefully for Casio fans, their new generation of keyboards will not become so noisy after sustained play.

I also thank our Finnish friend for posting the video.


Roland FP-90; Yamaha MX49; Pianoteq 5 + most add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X; Focusrite Saffire 2i2; For performing: Yamaha PSR-S970; FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic.
Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2675952
09/17/17 10:05 PM
09/17/17 10:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,101
Europe
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JoeT Offline
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Europe
Wow, these Casio keys are really short. How do they play at the position marked with "14" on your scale?


Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7605
Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2676093
09/18/17 02:12 PM
09/18/17 02:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 683
Finland
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clothearednincompo Online content OP
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clothearednincompo  Online Content OP
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 683
Finland
I don't remember how many of the white keys I treated. Probably most of them.

It's quite time consuming and also sort of a vicious circle: First you start with the worst key and once that is nice and quiet, then all the others seem noisy. I spent several hours on it and of course opening up the device is a bit of a hassle. The key cover gets in the way etc.

I know the spare part codes for the hammers are different for newer models, so there are some differences, but I guess the basic design hasn't changed much and they have mainly just added the third sensor and the ivory feel finish.

I'm not very technically skilled at piano playing and haven't compared with other digitals or acoustics, but I can say that I of course feel a difference when playing near the end of the key. It's possible to have dynamics and play either soft or loud, but it's definitely not so easy near the "fall board". Somebody used to "proper" pianos would probably be put off by it.

Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2676115
09/18/17 03:40 PM
09/18/17 03:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,138
UK
lolatu Offline
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Very good job OP. You could probably alternatively use a PTFE sheet cut to shape and secured with double-sided tape, as I did for fixing slow keys on the CA-95. Might have lower friction than plumbing tape, which is primarily designed for its inertness rather than its frictionlessness. But it looks like you're sticking it directly to plastic, so maybe the friction is not so important in this case.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2676137
09/18/17 05:18 PM
09/18/17 05:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,101
Europe
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JoeT Offline
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
I'm not very technically skilled at piano playing and haven't compared with other digitals or acoustics, but I can say that I of course feel a difference when playing near the end of the key. It's possible to have dynamics and play either soft or loud, but it's definitely not so easy near the "fall board". Somebody used to "proper" pianos would probably be put off by it.

The issue has not much to do with technical skill, it's more one of anatomy. I you happen to have to short thumbs and long fingers, you play near the fall board, especially once you climb up the black keys for octaves. Sometimes manufacturers manage to offer good control even with shorter keys (my ES100 doesn't have the longest keys either), other digital actions are hard to play further to the back of the keys.


Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7605
Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2676279
09/19/17 11:21 AM
09/19/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 683
Finland
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clothearednincompo Online content OP
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clothearednincompo  Online Content OP
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 683
Finland
PTFE sheet with double-sided tape might be too thick. I used typically maybe 20 cm or 8 inch of the teflon tape, it wrapped around the key several times and it's really thin stuff. And like said, anything too thick will ruin the key return. But experimenting is never a bad idea as long as it's something you can still take off. There's no glue involved with the PTFE tape as it clings to itself pretty well. But you'll end up with some of the lubricating grease on your fingers. smile

Re: Trying to silence a noisy Casio action [Re: clothearednincompo] #2676365
09/19/17 06:15 PM
09/19/17 06:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,626
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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If anyone wants to replace the felt in a Casio action, there's a thread here that might be interesting:

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/6597-px-350-keyboard-mod-success-at-last/


It's a step-by-step instruction manual on how to do the job.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker

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