Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Need advice on Piano purchase for wife

Hello everyone,

I need advice on the best Piano to purchase for adult beginners that will last even to intermediate and professional if necessary.

I have been searching the net the past week and as well as local used listings for a used piano to buy for my wife who just recently started attending classes. Although some might suggest to start with a cheapest one in case my wife loses interest, I am a firm believer in buying the best I can budget now that is future-proof and not worry about replacing later.

My budget is approx. $1000 (CDN), which is between 700-800USD.

I have been looking into the following used pianos (prices are in Canadian):

- Yamaha Clavinova CLP-840 - $1200
- Yamaha Clavinova CLP-154F - $1000
- Yamaha Clavinova CVP-205 - $1000

It is worth investing into any of the above as opposed to buying new? If I opted for a used piano to get the most value for my money, what would be the best options I should consider.

Our requirements are:
- 88-weighted keys
- (optional) a piano that looks like a real piano (i.e. Upright, Clavinova, etc.)

Welcome! A couple of general thoughts:

1. It's generally recommended that you don't "surprise" a pianist with an instrument they haven't had a say in choosing. There is a lot of variety out there with vast differences in feature, tone, and feel, and this is one area where it tends to be much more satisfying if she gets to make the choice. It's like surprising someone who needs a car. She might need a truck, and what you select could be a subcompact (or vice versa).

2. Digital pianos have a lot of moving parts, and some consumables that wear over time. Also, there's not a hugely efficient market in play since the overall volume for used sales is low. That means you have good chances for either a great deal, a total dud, a price-gouging rippff, or anything in between. I've bought many used DPs but I also fancy myself as a tinkerer, and am willing to time/effort/money into learning how the actions work and how to fix them if something goes wrong. Plus I have a fairly high risk tolerance if I get a bum deal (knock on wood, it hasn't happened yet). If you don't feel the same way and are new to the market, it's probably easier to go the new route...

Those are old pianos. Here are the release dates. Models are usually sold for three to four years before being replaced by new one, so any given piano might be a few years newer than these figures:
Your piano prices translate as:
1000 CAD = 821 USD
1200 CAD = 986 USD
IMO none of these pianos are worth that much to me. Their age and the likelihood of wear means that an old piano will likely need repair sooner rather than later.

(Mine is eight years old and has required two repairs by technicians costing almost $400, and over $100 of parts for other repairs that I've done myself ... on this Clavinova that I bought new in 2008.)

I'd look for something MUCH newer than any of those.

since you intend to continue piano studies for some time into the future, want fully weighted keys, and overall an instrument that simulates an acoustic piano -- compare kawai digitals to yamahas before deciding. in your budget range, both are the most reliable in terms of approaching the characteristics of acoustic pianos, and equivalent in overall quality. new kawais are priced competitively relative to the new yamahas.

+1 !



Bad news:

IMHO, you cannot achieve your goal - to get a "future-proof" digital piano" -- within your budget.

A 15-year-old DP is likely to sound worse, and play worse, than a new DP. Electronics has gotten cheaper, and the new sound generators are significantly better than the old ones, in any price range. That progress continues.

A list of _new_ DP's, within your budget, which would be suitable for beginner-through-intermediate use:

Casio PX-160

Roland FP-30

Kawai ES110

Yamaha P115

Both "piano stores" and "music stores" carry those brands.

They are all "slab pianos" or "stage pianos" -- not "cabinet pianos". They have 88 weighted keys, built-in loudspeakers, decent sound generators, and decent actions. For each of them, there is a more-expensive "cabinet piano" with similar action and electronics.

You will need a stand ("furniture stands" are available for each of them), and your wife may want to get a better "sustain pedal" than the one that comes in the box. An M-Audio SP-2 is OK. You may eventually want to get a 3-pedal assembly ("soft", "sostenuto", "sustain" pedals).

You won't learn much, reading ads for used DP's.

I suggest that you _and your wife_ should spend some time in music stores, trying out what's available. You _will_ learn a lot by trying them out.

If you don't have a good set of headphones, I suggest that you buy a pair. It's much easier to test a piano, when nobody else can hear you play!<g>

Please report back, with your opinions.

You make great points. I never thought about the "surprise" factor and I LOL'd when I read your car example

If I understood your second point, are you suggesting I get a new DP or acoustic Piano?

1994! OMG almost 20 years old!! Thank you for pointing out the release dates..I would have felt so ripped off if I purchased a piano that was created before the Internet.

I will take your words to heart, thanks for sharing your experience with me. I will not look into anything older than 4 years.

Costco puts their pianos on sale semi-regularly if you watch the costco.ca website. I got my Casio AP-650 for $1099 (Canadian) a couple of years ago. If you're not in a big rush just keep watching the costco.ca website -- they usually put some of their nicer ones on sale in November through December.

Thanks Charles. I am now convinced that Pianos are not like wine, they don't become better with age

I have noted the models you suggested down and I will search local piano/music stores and test them. Maybe this weekend we can arrange something.

Thanks Frank. I am a Costco member so I will definitely keep an eye. The one piano they had in store locally had only 76 keys, so it will have to be online. Is the Casio AP-650 as good or better than any of the ones that Charles suggested:

Casio PX-160

Roland FP-30

Kawai ES110

Yamaha P115

Frankly, I don't have a lot to compare it to. I started out with a Casio CDP-230 (that I got on sale from the costco.ca website) and then upgraded to my AP-650 about six months later when it went on sale about six months later. And I've never in my life played any piano other than those two.

The keys on my AP-650 are a lot nicer since they are textured and not just a plain plastic key like the CDP-230 has.

I play my piano for somewhere between 20 minutes and maybe two hours on most days, depending on what else I'm doing that day, and I like this piano rather a lot. I figure I should get 20 years out of it unless it breaks, since I can't see any reason that I would want to change it.

The AP-650 is apparently quite common and popular. I live in a town of 5000 people and the day it was delivered the truck driver told me that it was the third one he had delivered in town here that day. So there must be a whole lot of people that have one.

Most of the time I just use the default "Grand Piano Concert" setting; if I'm playing a rock tune (Bad Moon Rising, Old Time Rock 'n Roll, etc.) I might use the layer function to add a "Steel Guitar" on top of the piano sound to give it a bite. I used the split function last Christmas to do a version of Little Drummer Boy using "hip hop drums" with my left hand and an electric piano with my right hand and that was pretty cool. But mostly I just play the Grand Piano Concert setting and leave everything set at the defaults.

It has a ton of auto-accompaniment functions and whatnot that I've never used. And you can record to a wav file on a flash drive -- I did that once just to see how it worked; it worked and I haven't used it again.

If it's important to you, the AP-650 looks like a real piano, not a stage or a slab, so you get something that's more like a piece of furniture in your living room.

The AP-650 is an upgraded PX-350 (which I have, and like) in a furniture cabinet, with larger amps and speakers. It has "continuous half-pedalling", which the PX-350 lacks, and higher polyphony (which I don't think matters). Aside from that, the "features" seem to be identical.

Like Frank Cox, I've hardly used the auto-accompaniment feature -- but it's there, if you want to play with it. The built-in rhythms are OK.

It's better (IMHO) than anything in my list, above.

Take your wife along and let her choose.

+1

These are all better than CLP/CVP mentioned in op, you get more for your $$.

As mentioned above, nothing like taking the wife and going to a shop to try them out. Key things to look for are the action (feel) and the sound. Personally, action is no.1 for me since you can get different sounding software which are more realistic than the build in ones. Happy hunting!

+1

We are going this weekend I think I will take my wife to this Merriam Music, its about 20 mins away. They currently have specials on the Casio PX-160 and Kawai ES110 (https://www.merriammusic.com/product-category/deals/digital-deals/)

- CASIO PX-160 W/ MATCHING STAND, BENCH, AND THREE PEDAL SYSTEM -> $689.99 (FROM $1000)
- KAWAI ES100 -> $800 (FROM $1100) not sure if bench and stand are included with this one

LUCKY!! Costco has the same package about (Casio PX-160) for $550!! Its is the Casio® PX-160CSSPCB model though, not sure if that makes a difference.

https://www.costco.ca/Casio%C2%AE-PX-160CSSPCB-Digital-Piano.product.100221671.html

Wow... The prices are certainly a lot more competitive than Australia. Cheapest here I ever found on a brand new Casio PX160 is $729.00! Exchange rate almost 1-to-1 CA and AU.

That's a _very_ good price, for the whole package. The "CSSPCB" distinguishes the Costco "bundle" from the plain PX-160.

Against the AP-650, the PX-160 has the same keyboard mechanism, and a similar sound generator. The AP-650 has lots more "voices" (around 250, against 18 for the PX-160), and many more features --

. . . but for learning piano, and playing piano, they'll both work fine.

Just wanted to note that the deal on the page you link is for the Kawai ES100 not the Kawai ES110. Though they are similar in a lot of ways, the ES100 was discontinued this year and replaced by the ES110. The newer keyboard is lighter and has a new type of key action, however the ES100 is still a very good choice and has great reviews.

The primary competitor to the Kawai ES110/ES100 is the Roland FP-30. There is a raging debate as to which is better, but it really comes down to personal preference. It looks like Merriam stocks both brands, I'd highly recommend trying both while you are there. I wound up preferring the Kawai but the Roland is a fine choice as well if you prefer it, and has some advantages over the Kawai (and visa versa.)