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Rach 2 fingering? #2665137
07/31/17 01:30 AM
07/31/17 01:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
B
Beethoven747-400 Offline OP
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Beethoven747-400  Offline OP
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B

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
Hi all,

I am just wondering if anyone has a copy of Rachmaninoff concerto #2 movement 1 with fingering. I've been having to use my own fingering but I don't always trust myself to find the best option...

In particular, I am looking for the fingering used in sections:

6 - 17 bars after section 6. The e-flat major arpeggio like section that goes for 4 bars.
10 - just before the Maestoso (Alla Marcia)
15 - and 10 bars after section 15.
16 - to the end.



If anyone has a copy / or can make some recommendations on here / or recommend any editions with fingering , I would be highly obliged smile

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Re: Rach 2 fingering? [Re: Beethoven747-400] #2665197
07/31/17 09:17 AM
07/31/17 09:17 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,667
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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BruceD  Offline
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Victoria, BC
The two copies I have of the Rachmaninoff Second Piano Concerto are Schirmer and Gutheil/Boosey & Hawkes.

In spite of the fact that the Schirmer edition is "Printed in the U.S.A." and the Gutheil/Boosey & Hawkes is "Printed in England" I am convinced that the same identical plates were used for the two editions. There is not a single marking throughout that is different between the two editions, even down to the slightly smaller sized print for the second piano, except for the number 38349 on the bottom left corner of three left pages in the Schirmer and B. & H. 15209, bottom centre of each page in the Gutheil/Boosey & Hawkes.

All of this, you wanted to know, I am sure! smile

That said, there is no fingering in either edition. Sorry!

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Rach 2 fingering? [Re: Beethoven747-400] #2665256
07/31/17 03:16 PM
07/31/17 03:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 829
London, UK
J
Julian_ Offline
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Julian_  Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 829
London, UK
Originally Posted by Beethoven747-400
Hi all,

I am just wondering if anyone has a copy of Rachmaninoff concerto #2 movement 1 with fingering.

My two-piano score of Rach 2 is by Boosey & Hawkes with the plate number B. & H. 19656, marked "(re-engraved edition 1967) / Fourth Impression" on the title page. It has fairly sparse fingerings, presumably from the composer. These start off in the LH in the 11th measure of figure 5. Unfortunately only a tiny portion of your passages of interest has any fingering; in the 20th measure of figure 6, the LH starts 2 4 1 2 1 35. There are quite a few fingerings in the slow movement, almost all for the LH, starting from the 9th measure of figure 19. Very little in the finale. I haven't ever seen an edition of Rach 2 with more fingering. I suppose the assumption of editors is that if someone is advanced enough to attempt such a work, there is no need to hire a concert pianist to provide fingerings.

Most editions of Rach's Preludes and Études-Tableaux will have some fingerings in them that are definitely from the composer (and Henle's edition of the Preludes has additional fingerings by Marc-André Hamelin); maybe check them out and try the feel of some of them, especially Op. 39 No. 3, even though it's in a key with sharps. Also, maybe find a two-piano edition of Rach 3 with some fingerings (again, presumably from the composer), for more ideas; despite the somewhat different keyboard style from Rach 2, I hope you could find some useful things there.


(Used to post as SlatterFan)
Re: Rach 2 fingering? [Re: Julian_] #2665259
07/31/17 03:22 PM
07/31/17 03:22 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,667
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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BruceD  Offline
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Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Julian_
[...]
Most editions of Rach's Preludes and Études-Tableaux will have some fingerings in them that are definitely from the composer (and Henle's edition of the Preludes has additional fingerings by Marc-André Hamelin); maybe check them out and try the feel of some of them, especially Op. 39 No. 3, even though it's in a key with sharps. Also, maybe find a two-piano edition of Rach 3 with some fingerings (again, presumably from the composer), for more ideas; despite the somewhat different keyboard style from Rach 2, I hope you could find some useful things there.


Ruth Laredo's edition of the Preludes, Opp. 23 and 32 for Peters have her fingerings.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Rach 2 fingering? [Re: Beethoven747-400] #2665335
07/31/17 10:20 PM
07/31/17 10:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
B
Beethoven747-400 Offline OP
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Beethoven747-400  Offline OP
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B

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
Thanks for trying guys! My edition (from imslp) has the exact same sparse fingerings...

oh well.. I'll push on smile

Re: Rach 2 fingering? [Re: Beethoven747-400] #2665519
08/01/17 09:26 PM
08/01/17 09:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,865
Connecticut
dannylux Offline
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dannylux  Offline
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Connecticut
Originally Posted by Beethoven747-400
Hi all,
I am just wondering if anyone has a copy of Rachmaninoff concerto #2 movement 1 with fingering. I've been having to use my own fingering but I don't always trust myself to find the best option...

You can find a fully fingered version at pianophilia.com.

Click on "Keyboard Music discussion", then "Russian & Soviet Composers - Part 3".

In the search box on the left side of the screen, type in rachmaninoff concerto 2 fingered and it will take you to Alfor's fingered score. (Click on "Jump to Post")

You must be registered (free) and logged in to download.

He's fingered many more Rachmaninoff scores and posted them.

Also, you might find this thesis helpful:

An Analysis of Rachmaninoff's Concerto No. 2


Mel


"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn
Re: Rach 2 fingering? [Re: Beethoven747-400] #2666307
08/05/17 03:54 AM
08/05/17 03:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
B
Beethoven747-400 Offline OP
Full Member
Beethoven747-400  Offline OP
Full Member
B

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Perth, Australia
Mel! Thank you very much!

Also thanks for the analysis on Rach 2, I think it will make some great night reading smile

- Beethoven

laugh

Re: Rach 2 fingering? [Re: Beethoven747-400] #2666547
08/06/17 01:16 AM
08/06/17 01:16 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 112
SFBA, CA, USA
J
justarobert Offline
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justarobert  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 112
SFBA, CA, USA
Originally Posted by Beethoven747-400
Hi all,

I am just wondering if anyone has a copy of Rachmaninoff concerto #2 movement 1 with fingering. I've been having to use my own fingering but I don't always trust myself to find the best option...


I have the International Music Company's two-piano score, edited by Isidor Philipp.

Originally Posted by Beethoven747-400


In particular, I am looking for the fingering used in sections:

6 - 17 bars after section 6. The e-flat major arpeggio like section that goes for 4 bars.


The editor's fingerings are nearly all for the RH. From the eighth-note G in the first bar of the Un poco piu mosso, with hyphens for notes without fingerings:
1-4 521245 4-1234 5-1235 4--2-4 5-2124 5--1-- 21231212

The only LH fingerings are in the fourth bar: 24121- (35)

When I studied this piece, I mostly followed these fingerings. I have 13 for the last two LH notes of the first bar, and 321 for the fourth to sixth LH notes of the second bar. For the last four RH notes of the third bar, I played 1234 instead of 2124. I played the first LH note of the fourth bar with my RH thumb, and so can play thumb on the second and fifth LH notes.

Originally Posted by Beethoven747-400

10 - just before the Maestoso (Alla Marcia)


The chords alternating between hands? I have no fingerings written down; I just played what comes naturally.

Originally Posted by Beethoven747-400

15 - and 10 bars after section 15.


Do you mean the quintuplets in the left hand at the Un poco meno mosso? I have nothing written down. I suspect I did something like 51542 (12)3125, but that's very much dependent on what's comfortable for your hand.

Originally Posted by Beethoven747-400

16 - to the end.


Not a lot written down here either. 121 on the fourth to sixth sixteenth notes in the RH in the first bar of the Meno mosso. 1241-4 in the RH portion of the G7 arpeggio in the fourth bar. In the fifth bar, 5421 2321 5 for the beginning of the RH. In the seventh bar, 1212345 starting at the fifth note of the arpeggio. That's about it.

If you have questions about specific bars, I can try to remember what I played. Beware; my fingerings are often idiosyncratic and arguably just bad.


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