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Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop #2665833
08/03/17 05:54 AM
08/03/17 05:54 AM
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Jonathan B. Offline OP
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Hi,
I want to know how to record my digital piano to my computer.
My piano has USB to Host Port, Midi In&Out Port, 'the amplifier' port, and 2 headphone ports.
I already have the USB to Host cable (printer cable/usb type B cable) , i tried to connect it into my laptop but i dont know how to record. than i do some research in the internet, and from what i read im going to need audio interface and DAW software. since audio interface isnt that cheap, do i really need one?

if i use MIDI to USB cable, do i still need an audio interface?
what is the best way to record the piano, MIDI to USB/ USB to Host/ using the headphone jack.

please guide me step by step to record my piano frown

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Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665837
08/03/17 06:43 AM
08/03/17 06:43 AM
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You probably don't need anything else.
Forget the USB to Host; that's useful for firing a software piano on the computer.
Make a recording of your performance using the piano, and store it to USB memory stick.
Transfer the memory stick recording to the computer and the job's done.

If you use the headphone jack, then download audacity which is free. Connect a male-male jack to the input (not mic) of your laptop and play the recording of your music after setting Audacity to record. A vertical line traversing the screen will tell you this is what is happening.

And then you can send the result to us for our evaluation (evil grin)


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: peterws] #2665850
08/03/17 08:00 AM
08/03/17 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by peterws
You probably don't need anything else.
Forget the USB to Host; that's useful for firing a software piano on the computer.
Make a recording of your performance using the piano, and store it to USB memory stick.
Transfer the memory stick recording to the computer and the job's done.


but how frown there's no usb 2.0 socket in my piano, it only has the usb b type socket

i'll try the audacity one

Last edited by Jonathan B.; 08/03/17 08:08 AM.
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665853
08/03/17 08:22 AM
08/03/17 08:22 AM
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I'm confused. Your first post says you have a USB-to-host connection. But your second post says there's no USB socket on your piano. Which is it?

Anyway, as peterws points out, you don't need it. You can use the line-output (or aux output) from your piano. (You didn't say what piano you're using, so I don't know what you mean by "amplifier port". Is that the line-output?) If you don't have that use the headphone jack.

Connect that to the line input of your computer. Since you have a laptop it probably doesn't have a line input, but it should have a microphone input. Use that.

Jonathan's suggestion is easier to implement. Record your music on a USB stick on the piano, and then move the stick to your computer. But once again, you don't say what piano you're using. Does it have a USB-to-device socket? Can you use that USB connection to record audio to a USB stick? (I ask because mine is an older piano, and it can only record MIDI to the stick, not audio.)

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Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: MacMacMac] #2665864
08/03/17 08:59 AM
08/03/17 08:59 AM
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Jonathan B. Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I'm confused. Your first post says you have a USB-to-host connection. But your second post says there's no USB socket on your piano. Which is it?

Anyway, as Jonathan points out, you don't need it. You can use the line-output (or aux output) from your piano. (You didn't say what piano you're using, so I don't know what you mean by "amplifier port". Is that the line-output?) If you don't have that use the headphone jack.

Connect that to the line input of your computer. Since you have a laptop it probably doesn't have a line input, but it should have a microphone input. Use that.

Jonathan's suggestion is easier to implement. Record your music on a USB stick on the piano, and then move the stick to your computer. But once again, you don't say what piano you're using. Does it have a USB-to-device socket? Can you use that USB connection to record audio to a USB stick? (I ask because mine is an older piano, and it can only record MIDI to the stick, not audio.)


The USB to host connection which my piano has , use USB TYPE B. But I dont have the USB Stick/flashdisk socket.

Im Using Kawai CN27 .

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665866
08/03/17 09:25 AM
08/03/17 09:25 AM
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So Ive been able to record with audacity, the problem is, there is buzzing sound in the background.... . and i found out that the sound recorded is more bass(y)

Last edited by Jonathan B.; 08/03/17 10:14 AM.
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665878
08/03/17 10:23 AM
08/03/17 10:23 AM
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HoangCosmic Online content
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Yes there will be background noise (buzzing sound u heard) unless you use a quality separate recording sound card (rather than plug it directly to your computer) and a quality audio cable, record it with audacity as you've done, that's the expensive way but the sound would be exactly match what you heard from your piano, as the CN-27 doesn't have wav file record to usb
Other way, which is cheaper and may give you a better sound would be connect the usb to host (type B) from your piano to the computer, it will act as midi send and receive signal and a 3rd software to record that data and transfer it into sound (IMHO Pianoteq is the best, or you may use Kontakt, Synthogy Ivory), it will definitely give you better sound than your piano, just remember to reduce the latency as low as possible

Last edited by HoangCosmic; 08/03/17 10:24 AM. Reason: Grammar :(

In 2 years: Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665881
08/03/17 10:35 AM
08/03/17 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan B.
So Ive been able to record with audacity, the problem is, there is buzzing sound in the background.... and the sound is so loud until the wave hit the top and bottom


It is somewhat surprising, and looks like you have gradually reached the same awareness, that the CN27 is not equipped with 1) a USB-Device port or 2) an internal recorder comparable with what is typical on DPs designed in the past 5 or more years.

Yes, your CN27 has a basic internal recorder but one not intended to easily allow portable playback. This leaves you with the option of attaching your CN27 USB-Host port ( or Bluetooth) to a USB Host or a MIDI (MIDI or via-USB) Host that has appls that support playing live or saving the input (from your DP ) to a file or USB drive or hard drive.

Last edited by drewr; 08/03/17 12:54 PM.

- Kawai MP7 w/ MDR7506 phones and LSR308 monitors
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Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665885
08/03/17 10:42 AM
08/03/17 10:42 AM
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now i successfully record my piano cleanly and get rid all of the buzzing sound...
now my question is, how to improve the piano sound recorded in the Audacity, because for me it's not as good as the actual piano sounds like.

I'm recording it in an old laptop. . . $2 aux cable...

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665886
08/03/17 10:46 AM
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Sadly $2 cable and Laptop's old recording sound card can only make it haha, you may try some piano software as i recommended smile


In 2 years: Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665889
08/03/17 11:02 AM
08/03/17 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan B.
now i successfully record my piano cleanly and get rid all of the buzzing sound...
now my question is, how to improve the piano sound recorded in the Audacity, because for me it's not as good as the actual piano sounds like.

I'm recording it in an old laptop. . . $2 aux cable...


It would be helpful if you gave reports back on your actual setup, laptop model, line input setting but even after all that; HoangCosmic is correct.

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: HoangCosmic] #2665895
08/03/17 11:11 AM
08/03/17 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HoangCosmic
Yes there will be background noise (buzzing sound u heard) unless you use a quality separate recording sound card (rather than plug it directly to your computer) and a quality audio cable, record it with audacity as you've done, that's the expensive way but the sound would be exactly match what you heard from your piano, as the CN-27 doesn't have wav file record to usb
Other way, which is cheaper and may give you a better sound would be connect the usb to host (type B) from your piano to the computer, it will act as midi send and receive signal and a 3rd software to record that data and transfer it into sound (IMHO Pianoteq is the best, or you may use Kontakt, Synthogy Ivory), it will definitely give you better sound than your piano, just remember to reduce the latency as low as possible


what software to record the midi data? because last time i just tried to connect the piano and the laptop using the usb to host cable and nothing happened hahaha XD .

and if i use the midi data, it will not sound the same as my piano, and as you said it can sounds better right?

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665898
08/03/17 11:28 AM
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Pianoteq, Ivory II, Garritan...., the midi signal capture what you have played (how hard you struck the key, what note has been played at what time, pedaling etc....), not the sound, then the sound will be generated from the software above based on what you've played (modeling or sampling), normally you have to buy these software, and they're all support midi record as well as sound file generating, and real time playing (in case you don't like your piano sound, you can buy a good headset, or quality speaker, and plug it into your computer, use the software sound instead of you piano sound)
Normaly they're all better than the sound from the piano chip, as their sampling library is huge (40gb is normal), except Pianoteq where it is modeling with just only 40mb (you can google about modeling and sampling for their pros and cons). But you'd better use it with a strong enough computer to reduce the latency as low as possible

In short, your computer with these software act as sound generator chip and your piano is now control it, but you can still hear your piano sound when using these software, it will not mute your piano

Last edited by HoangCosmic; 08/03/17 11:31 AM.

In 2 years: Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: HoangCosmic] #2665899
08/03/17 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by HoangCosmic
Pianoteq, Ivory II, Garritan...., the midi signal capture what you have played (how hard you struck the key, what note has been played at what time, pedaling etc....), not the sound, then the sound will be generated from the software above based on what you've played (modeling or sampling), normally you have to buy these software, and they're all support midi record as well as sound file generating, and real time playing (in case you don't like your piano sound, you can buy a good headset, or quality speaker, and plug it into your computer, use the software sound instead of you piano sound)
Normaly they're all better than the sound from the piano chip, as their sampling library is huge (40gb is normal), except Pianoteq where it is modeling with just only 40mb (you can google about modeling and sampling for their pros and cons). But you'd better use it with a strong enough computer to reduce the latency as low as possible

In short, your computer with these software act as sound generator chip and your piano is now control it, but you can still hear your piano sound when using these software, it will not mute your piano


which one your prefer usb to host, or midi to usb, because i think my printer cable doesnt work HAHA

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665900
08/03/17 11:43 AM
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It's the same thing, but usb to host with printer cable is more simple and stable, you can use midi cable with midi to usb adapter but it's more complicated and still do the same thing: transmit midi signal to your computer


In 2 years: Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665901
08/03/17 11:46 AM
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it says USB device not recognized, im still trying to fix this, do i need to install this "Kawai USB MIDI Driver Package for Windows " ?

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665903
08/03/17 11:50 AM
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Idk :(, i've never face these problem, just install whatever your computer told you hahaha


In 2 years: Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665907
08/03/17 11:55 AM
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You need to ask yourself; do you want to record your piano or host a piano in your computer and record that.
If you like the sound of your CN27 and want to record that, probably you should buy an interface and you'd be done.

Hosting a piano, that can be a longer more expensive and complicated route, that in the end might provide better results.

Can you laptop handle it, no one here knows yet.

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665923
08/03/17 12:56 PM
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Jonathan ... The MIDI connection will produce NO SOUND at all. There's no sound in MIDI.

MIDI is just keystroke data. If you feed that to your computer you must have piano software on the computer that will read the keystroke data and play it as sound. You can have piano software, violin software, saxophone software ... whatever you want. But until you have software on the computer that will render the incoming MIDI data you will hear NOTHING. There is no sound in MIDI.

You earlier said that you could record "successfully record my piano cleanly and get rid all of the buzzing sound" using Audacity. I presume you connected the piano line output (or headphone output) to the laptop. I presume you've saved your recordings as .wav or .mp3 files.

You also said "it's not as good as the actual piano sounds like". That's hard to decipher exactly. So, can you post some of those recordings?

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2665948
08/03/17 03:01 PM
08/03/17 03:01 PM
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Frédéric L Online content
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Windows 7, or more "SupportThe standard (built-in) Windows USB-MIDI driver is ", then you should found the MIDI driver in the driver manager. (It should have an loud-speaker icon).

Then you need a MIDI recorder. I prefer to use Reaper which is a quite powerful DAW (Digital Audio Workstation). With such a software, you can send back the MIDI record to the piano or to a virtual piano. The last option is compatible with a digital WAV record. With the first option, recording to a WAV will need a sound card (and may add noise to the output of the Kawai since the link is analogic).

There are multiple DAW : Reaper, Traktion, Cubase, Ablation Live...

There are also multiple virtual pianos : Ivory Synthogy, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Pianoteq.....

Synghogy has a little recorder bundled with and Pianoteq integrate a little and practical recorder.

The DAW can be optional if you don't plan to record, because many virtual piano has a standalone mode.

If you just want to record the sound of the KN27, a good sound card and Audacity could be enough.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 08/03/17 03:22 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Frédéric L] #2666009
08/03/17 08:16 PM
08/03/17 08:16 PM
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Jonathan B. Offline OP
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I've been able to connect my Piano to my computer, i knew it by using MIDI-OX.

Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Windows 7, or more "SupportThe standard (built-in) Windows USB-MIDI driver is ", then you should found the MIDI driver in the driver manager. (It should have an loud-speaker icon).

Then you need a MIDI recorder. I prefer to use Reaper which is a quite powerful DAW (Digital Audio Workstation). With such a software, you can send back the MIDI record to the piano or to a virtual piano. The last option is compatible with a digital WAV record. With the first option, recording to a WAV will need a sound card (and may add noise to the output of the Kawai since the link is analogic).

There are multiple DAW : Reaper, Traktion, Cubase, Ablation Live...

There are also multiple virtual pianos : Ivory Synthogy, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Pianoteq.....

Synghogy has a little recorder bundled with and Pianoteq integrate a little and practical recorder.

The DAW can be optional if you don't plan to record, because many virtual piano has a standalone mode.

If you just want to record the sound of the KN27, a good sound card and Audacity could be enough.


So I have to record my MIDI data in a DAW Software right?
Than what i have to do next is to input the MIDI data recorded before in the DAW software into the Virtual Piano Software?
Than i can record the final result (WAV,MP3,etc) produced by the Virtual Piano Software, using the Virtual Piano Software itself?

how about XLN Audio Studio Grand?

Last edited by Jonathan B.; 08/03/17 08:56 PM.
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2666030
08/03/17 10:07 PM
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Normally the Virtual Piano software has the ability to record midi data itself, so you wont have to use another daw software unless you need some of its extensive feature


In 2 years: Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2666037
08/03/17 10:42 PM
08/03/17 10:42 PM
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@HoangCosmic : I know only 2 virtual pianos which record your music without a DAW : Pianoteq and Ivory which is bundled with Cantabile. With other products a DAW (or a VST host which recird) is required. Many virtual pianos are based on Kontakt Player (all from Native Instruments, all from Galaxy, Bechstein Digital Grand...), which doesn't seem to have a record option.

When you create a track on a DAW with a virtual instruments, the virtual instrument compute the sound in a real time. Then you control the strenghts of your notes while hearing what will be recorded (you have to listen your PC, not the puano).

On Reaper, the menu File / Render can create the WAV or MP3 triggering the virtual piano.

You can try Reaper freely for 60 days. Sforzando is free and can load Salamander piano (which is free too). XLN pianos are not my favourite but are very tweekable to make thrm sound mellower or brighter. Garritan CFX is one of my favourite and the Lite version is quite affordable.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 08/04/17 02:49 AM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Frédéric L] #2666053
08/04/17 01:26 AM
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Oh sorry, i only use Ivory standalone and Pianoteq haha, idk it


In 2 years: Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67
Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2666054
08/04/17 01:46 AM
08/04/17 01:46 AM
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For recording MIDI, an alternative to a DAW is a scoring program. I know (because I own it) that Sibelius will record MIDI data, and I assume that MuseScore (which is "open source" and free) will do so as well. Sibelius will export what it's recorded into a '.MID' file, which can drive software pianos, etc.

I'm not sure how much MIDI data is recorded. Reaper (etc) will certainly work, but is _not_ simple to use (IMHO).

I think this discussion may have gone off-track. [Forgive me if what I write below has already been covered . . . ]

The conceptually simplest way to "record my DP" (when the DP doesn't have a built-in ".WAV" recorder) is:

. . . Take the DP's output from a headphone jack, use a "stereo splitter cable" to separate L and R channels;

. . . Use the computer's "Line In" (if it's _stereo_ line-in), or a USB soundcard with stereo inputs (the expensive ones are "audio interfaces"),
. . . to change the analog signals from DP's headphone output (separate L and R channels) into digital form inside the computer;

. . Use Audacity (or some other reasonably-simple audio recording software) to capture that data in a ".WAV" file.

That captures _the sound generated by the DP_. You have to buy a splitter cable, and an audio interface (or stereo-line-input soundcard), and you have to learn a bit about Audacity.

Learning to run a DAW, recording a MIDI file, and playing the MIDI file through a software piano is (IMHO) considerably more work, and probably more expensive.


. Charles
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Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2666081
08/04/17 06:13 AM
08/04/17 06:13 AM
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North Carolina
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There is an easy way to record pure MIDI on a PC without a DAW. Use Red Dot Forever. It's free.

Once it's setup, just click the record button and play the piano. When finished, click the stop button and save your MIDI file.

Then import the MIDI into any DAW. Render and record the sound from the DAW.

Yes, the DAW can do that, too. But I found that when playing the piano, it's much easier to deal with an app that has just two buttons: Record and Stop.

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2666098
08/04/17 07:59 AM
08/04/17 07:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,688
France
Frédéric L Online content
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Frédéric L  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,688
France
Red Dot is a simple MIDI recorder, but since the OP talk about Audacity, I assume he want a WAV or MP3 record (ready to be shared with people who have no CN27).

Then, we have 3 options

* analog, with a good sound card, and Audacity (or other similar software),
* MIDI, with Red Dot or similar, but the result needs a CN27 to be rendered again exactly as it was played,
* MIDI and virtual piano, as I have explain (with a DAW or a VST host)

A good sound card is about 130€ a virtual piano like Ivory (and its VST host, Cantabile), is about 150€, somme are less expensive, but needs a VST host (VSThost is free, but I don't know how handy it is, Reaper is at 60$).

Last edited by Frédéric L; 08/04/17 08:05 AM.

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Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Frédéric L] #2666120
08/04/17 09:34 AM
08/04/17 09:34 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
J
Jonathan B. Offline OP
Junior Member
Jonathan B.  Offline OP
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J

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Red Dot is a simple MIDI recorder, but since the OP talk about Audacity, I assume he want a WAV or MP3 record (ready to be shared with people who have no CN27).

Then, we have 3 options

* analog, with a good sound card, and Audacity (or other similar software),
* MIDI, with Red Dot or similar, but the result needs a CN27 to be rendered again exactly as it was played,
* MIDI and virtual piano, as I have explain (with a DAW or a VST host)

A good sound card is about 130€ a virtual piano like Ivory (and its VST host, Cantabile), is about 150€, somme are less expensive, but needs a VST host (VSThost is free, but I don't know how handy it is, Reaper is at 60$).


Please guide me using these software: Cubase 7 & XLN Audio Studio Grand
Because i cant find tutorial on the internet.

What Virtual Piano Software Can Play MIDI file? because i can't input midi file into the XLN Audio (Demo version)

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Frédéric L] #2666127
08/04/17 09:53 AM
08/04/17 09:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,804
North Carolina
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North Carolina
Yes, you're right, Frederic.
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
... since the OP talk about Audacity, I assume he want a WAV or MP3 record (ready to be shared with people who have no CN27).
So back to Jonathan ... Do you simply want to record the sound of your piano? I think you said you've already done so!
Quote
So Ive been able to record with audacity, the problem is, there is buzzing sound in the background.... . and i found out that the sound recorded is more bass(y)
If so, then there remains the task of eliminating the buzzing sound.

Please elaborate your wishes.

Re: Help Me Recording My Kawai CN27 to My Laptop [Re: Jonathan B.] #2666151
08/04/17 11:39 AM
08/04/17 11:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,345
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TheodorN Offline
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Sweden
Have you tried Noise Reduction in Audacity? It might take away the character of the piano sound, but if you lower the dB, and the sensitivity in the window that pops up, it might work out for you.


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