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Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
#2666112 08/04/17 09:02 AM
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Hi all.
My quest for a good acoustic piano yesterday led me to Albert Weber AW-131 -- http://weberpiano.com/ublminxportfolios/aw131 A Youtube review is also here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcp4BXAWAQ8

In short, among the uprights I've played so far this one sounds most appealing to my ears. I also love its key action and touch to the point that I want to purchase it. However, I haven't yet touched the Yamaha U3 -- https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/upright_pianos/u_series/index.html I'll go take a look at it in a few days. But I'm hearing mixed reports and opinions about the reduced quality of some components used in U3 and U1 -- like some plastic components etc. Maybe these are Yamaha bashers -- don't know, but not everyone can be a Yamaha basher anyway! By the same token, I don't know much about the built quality of the AW-131 other than it's hand-made and that it takes 9 to 12 months to assemble it. As such, which of these do you recommend? Have you seen the AW-131, or do you own one? Do you think which one will give me fewer headaches in terms of maintenance, holding its tune longer, and more resistance to dry weather? Also which one do you think sounds better, to your ears? Is the U3 the very same so-called bright-sounding piano like the U1? They're apparently in the same price zone.
It might also be worth mentioning that I currently have a Yamaha Clavinova CLP-575 digital, but the more I play it, the more I come to the conclusion that I covet an acoustic!

Your opinions, recommendations and advice are appreciated. So looking forward to hearing from you.


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Amirhsol #2666147 08/04/17 11:22 AM
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Hello, and welcome to Piano World!

I would imagine a brand new Albert Weber 52" upright would be a nice piano. On the other hand, a Yamaha U3 in good condition would be of better quality in my opinion, if only in the quality of the components and craftsmanship. Who ever told you the U1 and U3 had reduced quality due to plastic part is mistaken in my view. I could take the low road, and say it was pure BS, but I won't. Okay, I just said it and there is no need to take it back. The person who made that comment is probably the Albert Weber salesperson. That strategy is a common one among piano salespeople; bash and trash the competition and plant negative seed-thoughts into the mind of the potential buyer; I believe they call that FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt). Don't fall for it...

Buy the piano you like best, period, whether the AW 131 or the U3. In my opinion, Yamaha quality, design and engineering is hard to beat. Yamaha is a top competitor among professional artists and performers, and many other professional music venues; Albert Weber is a consumer grade instrument; that in and of itself is not a criticism of the Albert Weber brand, but just a fact of reality.

And, yes, I'm a fan of Yamaha acoustic pianos. However, I did have a big disappointment with a Yamaha digital piano once, but I've since forgiven them; no need in holding a grudge... smile

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Amirhsol #2666162 08/04/17 12:42 PM
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I got the Yamaha plastic parts scare line from a competing salesman in St. Louis when I was shopping for a piano in 1996. I ended up buying a Yamaha U1, and was very happy with it. It's held up well and is currently being used by one of my sisters and her children.

Buy the piano you enjoy playing the most, whether it has plastic parts or not.

Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Rickster #2666186 08/04/17 02:09 PM
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Hi Rick, and thanks for the warm welcome!
Your points were quite informative. So I'll go take a closer look at the U3 more critically as I may very well end up purchasing it. You're right about the AW salesperson telling me about Yamaha component issues, but he looked so genuine and knowledgeable that I didn't doubt him. Honestly, though, I haven't been able to find such reports on the web.
Of course, I have to purchase either of these brand-new, but don't know how much I should pay for the U3. Perhaps if I can get the Yamaha guys to get my Yamaha digital and offer a discount, that would be the best of both worlds.
And if this counts, I played Mariage D'Amour and Fur Elise via the AW-131, and was surprised by its warm sound and key action. With Mariage D'Amour I was instantly reminded of the piano Richard Clayderman used to play that -- something I didn't feel when I played the very same piece on, say, the AW-121. In general -- and coming from a CLP-575 digital, 121/48 acoustic pianos don't appeal to my ears. I'm visually impaired and, if it matters, the sound is really important to me.
Once again, thanks for your pieces of advice -- they help me a lot.

Cheers,
Amir


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Corvus #2666192 08/04/17 02:19 PM
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Thanks, Corvus, for your advice.
I'll go take a clos look at Yamaha U3 with your point in mind.
In particular, I'd like to see how it sounds as I play the very same pieces -- Mariage D'Amour and Fur Elise. Have you seen the AW-131 in action yourself, or have you heard any report of its components malfunctioning after a few years? It has a 5-year guarantee.
BTW, Corvus, I know this might be rather off-topic, but do you have advice regarding how to reduce the sound which leaks from my room as I play an acoustic? I have a 10-meter room in our house, and I can imagine a U3 or an AW-131 will be heard quite clearly and loudly as I start playing. As such, should I forget practicing with either of these after 9 PM? This is, IMO, perhaps the most obvious advantage of a digital piano as one can easily switch down the volume -- I don't like headphones anyway.

Thanks,
Amir


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Amirhsol #2666200 08/04/17 02:45 PM
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Amir, your plan to play the same pieces on the yamaha as you did on the Albert Weber should tell you what you need. both pianos represent the best big upright their respective manufacturers can muster. yamaha has a huge brand recognition/prestige advantage over Young Chang in the piano business, and YC invested heavily into the creation of the Albert Weber pianos as their premium line, using German made components and an esteemed american designer, Del Fandrich, as a principal consultant. Albert Weber pianos haven't been in the u.s. market for very long and don't have the dealer/distribution network that yamaha or kawai have here, so relatively few people have owned and played them.

carpet on the floor, and (filled)bookshelves lining the walls of the piano room will significantly reduce the 'sonic leakage' beyond that room. it's great to hear from an Iranian musician, peace go with you.

Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
huaidongxi #2666205 08/04/17 03:07 PM
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Thanks, huaidongxi, for your insights.
Perhaps that explains why so few -- if any -- AW-131 reviews can be found on the web -- even on YouTube. On the other hand, the internet is brimming with U3 reviews and user opinions!
I'm very much looking forward to playing those pieces on the U3. The AW-131's sound signature was warm and mellow -- something very suitable for romantic pieces I think, but even with Fur Elise it sounded quite acceptable. Its key action was also quite light to my fingertips -- something which I'm not sure is an asset or a shortcoming at the end of the day. Hope the U3 turns out to be as impressive as that. This way I can probably negotiate with both sellers to get a better deal.
BTW it's an honor to be here -- in the vicinity of so many piano experts and adepts!


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Amirhsol #2666210 08/04/17 03:18 PM
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Hi Amir, welcome to the forum.

I see you've had a lot of good advice already on here. The truth is, this comes down to what you like and how much you are happy spending. Neither of these instruments are going to fall apart on you, so whichever one suits you best is probably the right choice. Personally I'm not a fan of the U3, simply in the sense that I think it represents poor value relative to other models in the range (and that's not Yamaha bashing, I'm currently on my 3rd Yamaha so I'm certainly not someone with a poor view of the brand).

There are of course lots of other choices I could suggest you try, and in particular i'd look at equivalent Kawai models before making a choice if you get a chance.

Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Amirhsol #2666217 08/04/17 03:54 PM
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Amir, forty years ago, enjoyed playing medium heavy actions as long as they were consistent. from a lifetime of cooking almost exclusively with hand tools and plenty of manual labour, the muscles and tendons of my hands are overdeveloped and taut. very much prefer lighter actions now. if the albert weber and yamaha are both brand new, there probably won't be a huge difference with their touch response, though their key weights might be set up a bit differently. the used yamahas in my experience have varied widely between light and medium heavy (which was in a lightly used, late model grand). how softly with control you can play each piano will tell you something about their touch and response.

Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Amirhsol #2666231 08/04/17 06:18 PM
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The Albert Webers are pretty hard to find here. The sparse reports I hear are positive, but some of those are from their own dealers.

Every piano is a mixture of automation and hand-manufacturing. Some in different proportions than others. I don't really pay attention to that marketing side of things, nor would I give much credence to what a dealer says about a product with which they directly compete...especially something negative.

Tone, touch, appearance, price, dealer service prior to and after the sale. That's what matters.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Amirhsol #2666247 08/04/17 08:24 PM
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The "real" Albert Webers, not Webers but with the first name came from the Pramberger Pianos that Young Chang commissioned from Joseph Pramberger, a designer formerly with Steinway. The YC Prambergers were designed to have a warmer more "European" sound than the normal YC premium lines that were voiced to compete with Yamaha. After Joe Pramberger died, the right to his name were sold to another company that specializes in stencil pianos. The designs were retained by YC and renamed Albert Weber. Soon after, Del Fandrich, another noted piano designer of classic Baldwins was contracted to refine the design of most of the Albert Weber uprights, grands and some of the Indonesian made Webers as well. These pianos received very good reviews when they were released. Unfortunately when Hyundai bought YC and the Weber name they seemed to not have much interest in promoting either brand. What used to be 3 lines under each brand was consolidated to just 2-3 and I'm not sure any of them are made in South Korea anymore.

If it's a Korean built AW-131 from a few years ago, It was meant to be a premium piano and if you like it's "warmer" tone, it will be a very good piano. I have a Korean Pramberger from about 2005 that still pleases me and has been trouble free in my So Cal home.

You can verify where and when the AW-131 was made by calling Young Chang in Cypress California with the serial number.


HTH,

Kurt


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Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Jason74 #2666261 08/04/17 10:01 PM
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Hi Jason, and thanks for the warm welcome.
Your points are well taken. May I know which Kawai acoustic piano is the so-called equivalent of the U3 or the AW-131? And are high-end Kawai acoustics still manufactured in Japan?
Unfortunately the Kawai brand isn't as recognized or advertised as, say, Yamaha here though I have to give the Kawai dealer a call to see what they offer and at which price point. When I wanted to purchase a digital, I couldn't even make arrangements with the Kawai dealer but I've been told it's been my bad luck.

Best,
Amir


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
KurtZ #2666262 08/04/17 10:07 PM
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Hi Kurt,

The salesperson says it's a Korean built, but honestly now that you bring it up, I'm a bit worried about future maintenance of the AW-131 down the road.
So am I correct to assume that Hyundai's purchase of YC and the Weber name will influence the way spare components for the AW-131 will be provided to dealers and resellers in the future? On paper at least, it's a bit disheartening to feel that your new acoustic piano belongs to a certain company which isn't so enthusiastic about pianos!
Thanks.


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
huaidongxi #2666263 08/04/17 10:18 PM
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Thanks, huaidongxi. That's what I'm also eager to try when I go to see the U3. Quite strangely, several brand-new European pianos I tried here had medium-heavy to heavy actions and coming from a digital I had a hard time playing on them! However, with the AW-131, I felt at home almost instantly.
I'm also now in a position to go try a couple of Kawai models, so if you have any recommendations or if you feel Kawai offers good competition in this price point, please kindly let me know.
BTW I've enjoyed your insights and thoughts on Piano World long before joining... So do keep up the good work!

Best,
Amir


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Amirhsol #2666272 08/04/17 11:01 PM
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Hi,

It's getting late here in the US where most of the forum members are so I will post some information until more knowledgeable folk chime in. Here is the profile link in the Piano Buyer to the Kawai line in the US. There are probably similar models in your location but sometimes the actual place of manufacture may vary.

http://www.pianobuyer.com/current-issue/acoustic-brands-kawai.html

The K300 model, is typically the one that is cross shopped with the U1. The K400 has a grand piano style music desk and different fall board for a modest price increase. The larger size Kawai's are the K500 and K800. The Piano Buyer is linked in the left hand column if you haven't found it and has a lot of online information.

Good luck


David



Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
Amirhsol #2666277 08/04/17 11:30 PM
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Amir, if you have access to an experienced and competent technician, you're not likely to have problems addressing routine maintenance and repair for the albert weber. how likely it is that more serious problems arise is more difficult to determine because there have been relatively few out in the market and exposed to real life wear and tear. your technician/tuner can always use this site for 'international technical support'. some of the components are internationally sourced, not fabricated by young chang. Del Fandrich himself is a member here. would you be purchasing the piano from a dealer who's been in the business for an extended period, with a reputation for customer support ?

not surprised by your observations re. new euro pianos. many or most new steinways would also tend to have actions in that range. with some companies, it's a conscious choice of how they want their brand new pianos to feel. there's a big variability in how much prep each manufacturer puts into the instruments before they get to the retail showrooms, how many hours of 'break in' (they use mechanical players to produce hundreds of key strikes on the strings) the pianos get, after the assembly is complete. logically, one might suppose that the premium tier brands give the pianos many hours of the finishing adjustments, but even among those there are some that leave considerable prep to the dealers before they reach the showroom floor.

the top tier kawai uprights have received favorable responses from their buyers/users to the same degree as the equivalent yamahas ; to me they generally have a warmer and mellower tone relative to yamahas, but with every brand there are differences between individual instruments, with their prep and use after they left their factories part of the variability. simply consider how much of the piano is wood, and no two trees are identical, and how many thousands of individual components get put together in a single instrument.

Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
huaidongxi #2666283 08/05/17 12:08 AM
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Very useful points, huaidongxi, as always.
Well, it's difficult to tell how reliable the Weber/Albert Weber dealer is here other than knowing that they've been selling these brands for more than 6 years. The Weber/Albert brands are recommended by many Iranian buyers, but my assumption is that given the difficulties accessing or working with other brands, many of them might not have had the opportunity to appraise Kawai and Yamaha uprights as they deserve. It strikes me as odd that the likes of U1 and U3 aren't very well received, at least on some Persian forums.
I was also rather pleasantly surprised to see a few posts by Del Fandrich here -- hopefully his presence means the mother company still cares about the Albert Weber brand!
Now that Kawai has also been recommended by a couple of people here, guess I should go take a look at Kawai K500. Admittedly what made me gravitate toward the AW-131 was its mellow, warm sound/tone as well as its light action, so it would be interesting to see how the K500 stacks up in these respects. Just hope it isn't more expensive.

Best,
Amir


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
KurtZ #2666287 08/05/17 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by KurtZ
The "real" Albert Webers, not Webers but with the first name came from the Pramberger Pianos that Young Chang commissioned from Joseph Pramberger, a designer formerly with Steinway. The YC Prambergers were designed to have a warmer more "European" sound than the normal YC premium lines that were voiced to compete with Yamaha. After Joe Pramberger died, the right to his name were sold to another company that specializes in stencil pianos. The designs were retained by YC and renamed Albert Weber. Soon after, Del Fandrich, another noted piano designer of classic Baldwins was contracted to refine the design of most of the Albert Weber uprights, grands and some of the Indonesian made Webers as well. These pianos received very good reviews when they were released. Unfortunately when Hyundai bought YC and the Weber name they seemed to not have much interest in promoting either brand. What used to be 3 lines under each brand was consolidated to just 2-3 and I'm not sure any of them are made in South Korea anymore.


The Albert Webers are definitely still built in South Korea.

http://www.pianobuyer.com/current-issue/acoustic-brands-young-chang.html


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Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
terminaldegree #2666288 08/05/17 12:25 AM
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Thanks. The more I look at the situation, the more I come to appreciate the points you raised.
So other than checking which one sounds more pleasant and which one has a more acceptable action to my fingers, I should check to see which dealer can offer a better price, a better discount or something akin to purchasing my digital and extracting its sum from the cost of a new acoustic.


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Re: Yamaha U3 or Albert Weber AW-131: which one do you recommend
supersport #2666292 08/05/17 12:35 AM
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Thanks, David.
The K500 is grabbing my attention though I haven't yet seen/touched it. However, based on the following comparison I've found, it seems that Kawai K500 is a serious contender: http://kawaivsyamaha.blogspot.com
Like the AW-131, Kawai K500 uses ebony wood caps for its black keys. I don't like plastic caps on my CLP-575 and if the U3 uses the same material, that might be an important factor. Also if the comparison is valid, the K500 should have better hammers. And, last but not least, the use of Carbon Fiber in Kawai's action should give it an extra vantage point.
All of these, however, mean little if the sound doesn't turn out to be appealing to my ears or the price turns out to be prohibitive!


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
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