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I have a new piano arriving tomorrow and I am trying to forsee in advance acoustic problems that I will have to solve.

It's a Kawai RX-5 and it has a very sweet and mellow tone,

Here's the room and the options to place the piano:



I already noticed a bathroom like reverberation around the area where the piano is going to be. The worst problem is next to that 180 cms wall,

After the piano is in place, it will be difficult to move furniture around so I am trying to figure out the best use I can make of 2 book cases that I can place around the piano.

One of them is very tall and the other is around 170 cms high.

I would rather get away with just one of them so that that area will not become too cluttered.

So, what would be:

- The best orientation for the piano, in terms of acoustic? At the moment I am inclined to the option B, both for aesthetic reasons (it seems that the piano is more faced towards the room and therefore is more a part of the room) and because I will not be facing a wall.

- The best place to put the book cases?

If I reduce the reverberation too much, won't the piano sound too dull, having such a mellow tone to start with?

The floor has tiles and the rest of the room has normal furniture and there are 2 big glass windows on the opposite corner of the piano.

I'd say B, only tuck the tail of the piano even closer into the corner, closer to the 180 cm wall. That gives you more room to get in and out. The lid directs the sound away from the acoustically problematic wall. Once it's there, you can tell if you need any more acoustic treatment. You'll have a nice place for a bass trap in that corner to the left of the piano.

I can't comment on the acoustics aspect, but for aesthetic reasons I like option B. My piano is angled rather less - I would suggest something mid-way between your options A and B. That will still look very nice. It will still look, as you said, "more a part of the room".

Play before the movers leave to make sure it is at least tolerable. Congrats

I may be the odd-ball here, but I like option C the best. It seems easier to get to and from the piano and the sound projection would not be bad. Option A would be my second choice.

But hey, it's your piano and your home, and congratulations!!

Enjoy!!

Rick

Thanks for the tips. I will go for option B.

It's a big piano enclosed in a small area and I am a bit worried.

I am normally most bothered by middle tones and those are the ones that I guess will be most affected by the bad acoustics of that area of the room.

I will try the piano without anything and I will add stuff as needed. If needed, I will get some bass traps.

How difficult is it to insert or remove a rug from underneath a piano? Is it something 2 people can do?

Are there any situations where the sound is better without a rug underneath the piano?

I have no experience in this, but my guess is that the near refections sound bad and the distant reflexions sound good, especially in middle and high frequencies.


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Ardeus:

I agree with the Rickster on this one : C, for sure.

Karl Watson
Staten Island, NY
kw35@si.rr.com

Rick and Karl, in option C, the lid opens to a corner with really bad acoustics. Shouldn't the lid open up to the room?

You may remember I tried another piano in a room with terrible acoustics and after a few minutes I couldn't stand the sound of the piano.

I already made a few tests with my own voice, by placing a rug on the floor and on that 180 wall. There was a dramatic effect by placing the rug on the wall.

I guess these tests don't say much about what's going to happen with the bass. The books may both diffuse and absorb bass frequencies to some extent.

What about the wall behind me when I play the piano?

Yes, we've done it with two people: The Leg Lifter and the Rug Wrangler. It takes some planning, rolling, and folding to do efficiently.

If I'm interpreting the layout of the room correctly, the lid opens to project the sound toward the north-west corner of the big room. It doesn't look like the short wall would interfere with sound projection.

But like the others said, before the movers leave, position the piano in each scenario and see what you think. And, even after the movers are long-gone, if you want to reposition, get a couple of friends/family with a good healthy back and gather around the piano and lift up on the weight of the piano a bit and move it slightly on its casters.

Either way, congratulations on your new grand piano!

Rick

My room is similar and I have mine set up like option B. I like this arrangement. It sounds good and I very much would dislike facing the wall. Just make sure you have enough room to scoot the bench out however much you need.

I'd rather put it smack-dab in the center of the large, rectangular part of the room!

I know very few people who have their pianos still placed as first delivered. You kinda have to live with them for a while, then move them around.

The piano biz needs more feng shui consultants.

Ardeus:

I apologise. I didn't realise that your room is a performance venue. I use my piano for work and so my concern is that it's almost always too loud, especially in the room itself. It seems to be a losing battle for me to get ANY of my pianos soft enough.

Karl

What I would consider is if there is enough room to remove the action for service, and whether you will be playing with others. Acoustics can be dealt with. Too little room or bad sightlines are more difficult.

Of course, my first rule of piano placement is that the legs go down!

This may depend somewhat on how large of a rug. I needed to put a 12' x 15' rug under my GX-5, and the movers who were helping me decided that it would be easiest to take the piano down half way, move it out of the way on the dolly, then set it back up after positioning the rug. With a large rug, there becomes a logistical issue of where to lift from while not on top of the rug.

You are overthinking this. Pianos are on wheels. It is not that difficult to move them around in a room. You will not know what is best until you've played around with it a bit. It is not just sound, it is what looks good with the lid up, and what is most convenient for the pianist to get access. If you are anything like me you will need somewhere close at hand to keep scores that you can reach without getting up, and somewhere for your coffee!

Enjoy the new arrival. Plan to move it around a few times in the next few weeks.

I say C without a doubt, I could never stand being backed into a corner for acoustic reasons. Your perception will likely be extremely bass heavy in the corner unless you give it significant acoustic treatment, meaning a bass trap in the corner, which would leave no room to sit. I would tuck the tail into the left corner of C, and still add a bass trap (a super wedge) in the right corner. The wall behind you will then be angled away from you, so you shouldn't need anything there, unless you want it. I would probably play with the angle a little bit, maybe somewhere between A and C.

Edit: I would also consider acoustic panels on the 180 and 350 cm walls if necessary.

There it is

You guys were right, I think I will be moving it around a lot over the next days.

I am starting to think that each piano may require very different approaches.

This one has a very mellow tone and in fact I think I prefer not to have a rug underneath it. The rug seems to affect mostly the treble.

When the lid opens more in the direction of the wall, the sound gets muddier. I definitely prefer the lid a little bit open because it brightens the sound, especially in the higher registers.

Tomorrow I will try the C option as you guys suggested and see what happens. Thanks a lot for the explanations.

The door behind it is for a quick escape in case of tomatoes and old shoes, I assume.

Seriously, that's a nice looking setup.

It looks fantastic, and I'm sure it sounds even better. I hope you have many happy years together!