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New S&S D
#2664547 07/28/17 10:49 AM
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We are in the market for a new concert grand and are interested in the S&S D. The model Ds available in our area are unfortunately not to my liking. To my knowledge, one can go to Steinway’s factories in NYC and/or Hamburg for more selections. Does anyone know how this process work?

Even though they have more choices in the factories, there is still a chance that none of those suits me. Are we obliged to make a purchase? Or is there a charge for visiting them?

Thanks in advance!

Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664549 07/28/17 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MGAB
We are in the market for a new concert grand and are interested in the S&S D. The model Ds available in our area are unfortunately not to my liking. To my knowledge, one can go to Steinway’s factories in NYC and/or Hamburg for more selections. Does anyone know how this process work?

Even though they have more choices in the factories, there is still a chance that none of those suits me. Are we obliged to make a purchase? Or is there a charge for visiting them?

Thanks in advance!


You just need to contact your authorised dealer. You are not obliged to buy anything, nor is there a charge. Where I live the previous dealer used to even pay for the trip.

Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664553 07/28/17 11:26 AM
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Thanks johnstaf for the quick reply.

I did contact the local dealer, they unfortunately told me that both a deposit (a large percentage too) and a charge (hundreds of dollars, for the admittance into selection room) are required. Should I not able to find one that I like, the admittance charge is not refundable.

This does not sound like any usual business practice, regardless of the value of the product. We are not sure what to do.

Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664556 07/28/17 11:41 AM
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Contact Steinway directly, and tell them what the dealer said.


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Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664561 07/28/17 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MGAB
I did contact the local dealer, they unfortunately told me that both a deposit (a large percentage too) and a charge (hundreds of dollars, for the admittance into selection room) are required. Should I not able to find one that I like, the admittance charge is not refundable.

This does not sound like any usual business practice, regardless of the value of the product. We are not sure what to do.

Humm, this sounds really strange to me. They want you to pay, big bucks, just to enter the store and look at the piano; then, they want to extort thousands of dollars from you as a so-called deposit.

This kind of expensive piano is so far out of my league that I probably shouldn't be posting here; but based on what you have reported, I'd tell them to keep their S&S D and admire it the remainder of their lives, and when they pass on, to make room in the grave for the piano. If something is really that valuable and rare, they should be able to take it with them with they pass on...

Secondly, I'll bet there are some reputable dealers and rebuilders who would be much more accommodating to your needs, and treat you with much more respect, and you would likely end up with a S&S D just as nice or nicer than the new one that the dealer will take to the grave with them. smile

Arrogance:

Arrogance is a human trait that is easy to recognize
It starts with a lack of respect and big bulging eyes
There is no compassion or mercy that is closely related
Nothing but greed and contempt as others are berated
But one thing is for sure, and there is no doubt
Arrogance is a temporary thing and will soon burn out
So let them be brash, and let them be bold
And, in the end, maybe they can take home their gold
Where they go, in the end, it's hard to tell
It may well be heaven, or it may well be h...
But rest assured they'll be leaving this world
And perhaps sooner than later, as things are unfurled
Who knows, perhaps in the end, they'll wish they'd been smarter
But to be so bold, and brash and arrogant, is a non-starter
It's not too late to change and make amends
Perhaps be more courteous and try to make friends
For if you make a friend, perhaps you make a sale
Or, maybe not, who knows, it's hard to tell...


Just my .02.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664563 07/28/17 12:03 PM
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You may visit other dealers to try their inventory, but for a factory selection, that has been Steinway's policy for quite some time. Or you could expand your search to include other brands.


Sam Bennett
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Re: New S&S D
PianoWorksATL #2664573 07/28/17 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
You may visit other dealers to try their inventory, but for a factory selection, that has been Steinway's policy for quite some time. Or you could expand your search to include other brands.


Sam is correct. Of course, you have other options such as used or rebuilt Steinway Ds, Yamaha concert grands, Bosendorfer, Steingraeber, Fazioli, etc etc etc. New Steinway concert grands can be fantastic, but there are many other options out there that may be preferred from the point of view of performance or value or both.


Keith D Kerman
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Re: New S&S D
Keith D Kerman #2664580 07/28/17 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
You may visit other dealers to try their inventory, but for a factory selection, that has been Steinway's policy for quite some time. Or you could expand your search to include other brands.


Sam is correct. Of course, you have other options such as used or rebuilt Steinway Ds, Yamaha concert grands, Bosendorfer, Steingraeber, Fazioli, etc etc etc. New Steinway concert grands can be fantastic, but there are many other options out there that may be preferred from the point of view of performance or value or both.


Second to that motion. I've played some Steinways I really liked, but I've also played some fantastic pianos from Estonia, Fazioli, Grotrian, and Steingraeber, among other great makers.

There are several wonderful dealers on this Board (and even on this thread!) who will treat people right: Sam, Keith, and Rich G., along with others.

I always prefer taking my trade to good people vs the other kind.


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Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664583 07/28/17 01:36 PM
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Up until 3 weeks ago, I also was in the market for a Steinway D. And just as with the OP, the one available new D at my local Steinway dealer was not to my liking. The dealer offered me the option of doing a factory selection, and the way it was explained to me was as follows: "You pay me for the piano ahead of time, and we then make an appointment for you to do the factory selection. By the time you have left the Steinway factory, you WILL own a Steinway D." He did say that if I was very unhappy with all of the Steinway D's that were available in the factory selection room, he himself would select one of them instead for his showroom, and then I could purchase the one he currently had in his showroom. In either case, there was the potential for spending a whole lot of cash on a piano with which I was less than delighted. This sounded too risky to me, given the huge number of dollars involved. In the meantime, I found a wonderful Steingraeber D232 of which I was completely enamored. So I purchased that instead. As they say, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664585 07/28/17 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MGAB
Thanks johnstaf for the quick reply.

I did contact the local dealer, they unfortunately told me that both a deposit (a large percentage too) and a charge (hundreds of dollars, for the admittance into selection room) are required. Should I not able to find one that I like, the admittance charge is not refundable.

This does not sound like any usual business practice, regardless of the value of the product. We are not sure what to do.


Sorry about that. It's so different from how things used to be. It's extraordinary, especially as it is not easy to find a good selection of new Model Ds at a dealer. Perhaps one of the Steinway halls might have a decent selection? I've been to Steinway in London, and while they have a great selection, I don't think they had many Ds -at least on the floor.

Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664598 07/28/17 02:38 PM
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Sam has taken the words out of my mouth. Why not try some of the other top tier pianos: C Bechstein model E, Blüthner Model 1, Bösendorfer, Grotrian Steinweg and Fazioli all spring to mind. You have said you haven't come across an S & S that you like.

If I were treated like that over the purchase of any product I would buy from a competitor.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664602 07/28/17 02:55 PM
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Thanks everyone for your valuable input. Before that I was not sure if it was the dealer's or Steinway's policy.

We also have tried other makes: M&H, Bösendorfer, Fazioli, Estonia, Blüthner, and August Förster. While they are all superb pianos, I am still looking to see if I can find the perfect model D... something like Horowitz's, which I fell in love with at first play.

We can travel to Steinway Hall in NYC quite easily. But the dealer here at first said we should go, and then later discouraged it. They said the Hall typically has only 1 or 2 D's for show and are not as well prepped. The Factory Selection room, however, will have a handful and are all very well prepared. Just that to get in, one has to pay a large deposit.

We have not made up our minds. But now we know if we decided that the model D is the one, we just have to deal with Steinway... or the highway.

Thanks again!

Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664603 07/28/17 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MGAB
I am still looking to see if I can find the perfect model D... something like Horowitz's, which I fell in love with at first play.

Isn't that a little fanciful though? Horowitz's pianos are well known to have been modified to within an inch of their lives. i.e., anything but a standard Steinway. There's no way any new Steinway you find will play like his did. There might be some rebuilt ones that are more in line with Horowitz's philosophy, but you'll have to work to track them down.

Re: New S&S D
ando #2664604 07/28/17 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by MGAB
I am still looking to see if I can find the perfect model D... something like Horowitz's, which I fell in love with at first play.

Isn't that a little fanciful though? Horowitz's pianos are well known to have been modified to within an inch of their lives. i.e., anything but a standard Steinway. There's no way any new Steinway you find will play like his did. There might be some rebuilt ones that are more in line with Horowitz's philosophy, but you'll have to work to track them down.


I was just about to make this exact point. As I have expressed many times here, the sound of Horowitz's Steinway from his recordings in the 40s and 50s is for me, the ultimate Steinway sound. It is quite different from current Steinways and not only for all of the customization it received. Of course, Horowitz himself may have contributed a bit to that sound :P


Keith D Kerman
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Re: New S&S D
Keith D Kerman #2664605 07/28/17 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by MGAB
I am still looking to see if I can find the perfect model D... something like Horowitz's, which I fell in love with at first play.

Isn't that a little fanciful though? Horowitz's pianos are well known to have been modified to within an inch of their lives. i.e., anything but a standard Steinway. There's no way any new Steinway you find will play like his did. There might be some rebuilt ones that are more in line with Horowitz's philosophy, but you'll have to work to track them down.


I was just about to make this exact point. As I have expressed many times here, the sound of Horowitz's Steinway from his recordings in the 40s and 50s is for me, the ultimate Steinway sound. It is quite different from current Steinways and not only for all of the customization it received. Of course, Horowitz himself may have contributed a bit to that sound :P


The OP should seek out the Horowitz's Steinway to see how he likes it. From what I understand it was an overly loud and bright instrument on it's own yet a different story under the hands of Horowitz.




Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664606 07/28/17 03:26 PM
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I thought the piano was overly bright and uneven when I heard Horowitz playing. These are things that tend to get forgotten when there is such heat in the performance.


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Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664609 07/28/17 03:41 PM
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I actually did not find Horowitz's piano overly bright/loud. If I remember correctly, they told me the original action is stored somewhere else, the one I played was the "standard" Steinway action, whatever that is. Surely, I think some regulation would have been great. But that piano sounded amazing. It can be loud and bright when asked for, but it can also be very warm.

That was just one of the D's I fell in love with... there are more.

Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664620 07/28/17 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MGAB
..., I am still looking to see if I can find the perfect model D... something like Horowitz's, which I fell in love with at first play.


In that case, it's a waste of time to look at any maker's new pianos. You need a technician/rebuilder who knows the radical differences that Horowitz liked, and you need a bespoke rebuilt concert grand. A Steinway core would be a good choice, maybe not the only choice. Perhaps start a new thread looking for such a rebuilder. I think there may be one here on this forum.... ;-)


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Re: New S&S D
JohnSprung #2664627 07/28/17 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
In that case, it's a waste of time to look at any maker's new pianos. You need a technician/rebuilder who knows the radical differences that Horowitz liked, and you need a bespoke rebuilt concert grand. A Steinway core would be a good choice, maybe not the only choice. Perhaps start a new thread looking for such a rebuilder. I think there may be one here on this forum.... ;-)



Very true. I heard that Horowitz's Steinway had a Yamaha action retrofitted to it. However, it may not be what you want, since I'm assuming you would not like an overly bright and "juiced" action. Rebuilt Steinways with Renner actions *might* be closer to what you want. But whatever it is, I'd look at rebuilt Steinway D's, as well as new ones, and compare their tonal qualities extensively and with an open mind, keeping any bias for "brand-spanking-new" Steinway D's away from your piano shopping experience.

Re: New S&S D
MGAB #2664632 07/28/17 06:25 PM
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IObsessed, The Horowitz Steinway never had any action other than a Steinway action.

MGAB, Steinway's selection room policy is that the sale of the piano has to be confirmed before a selection date can be made. This is not a store, it is a room in the factory. Steinway Hall in Manhattan is a retail store and is open to the public and anyone can go at any time to play and see the pianos.

In a factory selection 5-6 concert grands are prepared for your selection. There is a form that is filled out by the dealer that gives the factory some idea about where it is going: home, concert hall, size of hall etc. You also choose from the finish that you have noted. Right now there is a three month waiting list for a selection date depending on the case finish. Only the customer or committee that is scheduled for the selection is allowed into the factory selection room area so that the customer and his or her selection committee have total privacy during their scheduled time. The technicians in the selection room do a wonderful job getting the pianos ready.

Probably the most appealing quality about these pianos is that they are so mallable in tone and touch by a tech. Tonal requests are pretty easy to accomplish. You just have to ask.


Sally Phillips
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