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Perfect Pitch
#2662656 07/19/17 10:06 PM
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Poetry is rhythm
Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2662673 07/20/17 12:17 AM
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Pointless test? Of what practical use is perfect pitch?

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Perfect Pitch
BruceD #2662682 07/20/17 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Pointless test? Of what practical use is perfect pitch?

Regards,

FUN TEST


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2662701 07/20/17 04:45 AM
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3/4.

I grew up playing the piano on an instrument that was tuned half a note lower than 440.
So now my "perfect pitch" is out of tune. I often miss by half a note, as in this test.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2662702 07/20/17 04:51 AM
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4/4 without a perfect pitch. It was enough to know stuff about baroque concertos, then rely on relative pitch :P...

Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2662706 07/20/17 05:23 AM
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0/4, entirely as expected.


I've started playing January 2017, Nothing is too easy is where I keep track of my progress.

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Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2662709 07/20/17 05:43 AM
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4/4, no perfect pitch.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2662710 07/20/17 05:47 AM
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This tests the ability to give names to pitches. That is not the same thing as the ability to recognize or replicate pitches. Do you need to know the name of a banana in order to recognize it as a banana?

Re: Perfect Pitch
BruceD #2662757 07/20/17 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Pointless test? Of what practical use is perfect pitch?

Regards,


As a person who has it, I'd say the most practical uses are:

Memorization - I just play "how it goes." I play the music I hear in my head.
Accompanying - when my soloist skips something or repeats something or (God forbid) jumps somewhere completely different in the music, I can see exactly where they are. I can match up my accompaniment on runs or whatever because I know exactly which note they are on at any given time.
Instantaneously reproducing anything I hear. "Can you play this?" song I've never heard before in my life. Yep.

When it's a hindrance:

Accompanying - B-flat, E-flat, F instruments; instruments that use different clefs (I'm not used to middle C being on the middle line). That takes some getting used to. Fortunately, two of my kids are trumpet players and I accompany a lot of cellists, so now I'm pretty decent at reading B-flat solo lines and tenor clef.

Playing a VERY out of tune instrument (like a half step off or more). People can't understand why I don't just "turn down" the pitch on the organ instead of transposing it completely on the fly. It's because of the music you hear in your head. Your hands naturally gravitate toward what you hear. Your hands can't play in the key of F major and listen to D major. It just doesn't compute.


aka Lady Arabesque
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Re: Perfect Pitch
coaster #2662758 07/20/17 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by coaster
Originally Posted by BruceD
Pointless test? Of what practical use is perfect pitch?

Regards,


As a person who has it, I'd say the most practical uses are:

Memorization - I just play "how it goes." I play the music I hear in my head.
Accompanying - when my soloist skips something or repeats something or (God forbid) jumps somewhere completely different in the music, I can see exactly where they are. I can match up my accompaniment on runs or whatever because I know exactly which note they are on at any given time.
Instantaneously reproducing anything I hear. "Can you play this?" song I've never heard before in my life. Yep.

None of this has anything to do with perfect pitch.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Perfect Pitch
Polyphonist #2662833 07/20/17 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist

None of this has anything to do with perfect pitch.


I know people can learn to do these things well even when they don't have perfect pitch, but still I think perfect pitch makes it easier. Therefore, I'm far more impressed by people who can memorize long works when they DON'T have it.


aka Lady Arabesque
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Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2662895 07/20/17 08:14 PM
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^ We don't know what we're missing, coaster smile
This is interesting, because my experience of playing from memory and playing by ear is also "I play what I hear". But what I hear is a series of relationships between sounds, i.e. relative pitch and rhythm.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2662907 07/20/17 09:38 PM
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I don't have perfect pitch, but I still do have pretty darn good pitch.

Or, as I also like to say, buy a tuning fork. You may not have perfect pitch, but you can buy a perfect pitch for $10 or so. ha

Last edited by Orange Soda King; 07/20/17 09:39 PM.
Re: Perfect Pitch
Polyphonist #2662926 07/20/17 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
None of this has anything to do with perfect pitch.

Actually, all of it does, though there is a lot more that Coaster doesn't mention. I would add a couple of other random things, though I could probably think of a hundred if I had to.

Absolute pitch keeps teachers honest. When my daughter, 11 or 12 at the time, was taking guitar lessons, I was discussing her practicing (or lack thereof) with the teacher before her lesson and saying that she was finding F chords difficult. Her teacher then strummed a Dm7 chord and "explained" how that was the fingering for an F chord. Mia, my daughter, said immediately, "That's not F!" He was flustered and I wasn't sure what to say because I didn't want to interfere, but before I could confirm what Mia had said he did the right thing and admitted that he had played the chord mistakenly (there's a long technical explanation for what he did that guitarists will understand, but I can't be bothered to explain it). So if there's a student in the room with AP, music teachers can't get away with anything. Coaster related a similar story to me once about her young son, who apparently once said, when his hearing was being tested, that he was hearing B's and the teachers thought he was saying "bees" (you know, the buzzing kind) until it was made clear to them that he had perfect pitch.

Secondly, there's just the thing itself. Pitch color. It's really difficult to explain, so I'm not going to try. But even as I get old and realize that my children can hear pitch colors more accurately than I now can, I can't imagine what it's like to be unable to distinguish D major from C major instantaneously or to be able to pick out the actual pitches in a quiet piece by Webern and just enjoy their sound-colors floating in a sea of silence.

Finally, I would simply endorse the opinion of Susan Rancer in a book she co-wrote with Henny Kupferstein on perfect pitch as a significant manifestation of autism: "The only curse with perfect pitch is that you don't have it."


SRF
Re: Perfect Pitch
coaster #2662930 07/20/17 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by coaster
Originally Posted by Polyphonist

None of this has anything to do with perfect pitch.


I know people can learn to do these things well even when they don't have perfect pitch, but still I think perfect pitch makes it easier. Therefore, I'm far more impressed by people who can memorize long works when they DON'T have it.

Always the gracious "lady" (Arabesque). You are too polite. I thought Polyphonist's comment was quite rude.

Regarding your comment, I am actually more impressed with people who do have PP who can successfully develop relative pitch. Like when I play a B and a G# on the piano and ask Mia to say what the interval is. Off the bat, she has no idea and when she starts counting the notes in between, she always messes up, so she'll say 7th or 5th or something. However, she's never fooled by octaves. (Of course.)

As for memorizing, I believe people with AP have exactly the same kind of problems as people who don't, though they usually are able to recover more quickly when bad things happen. Obviously I don't know this for sure, so I guess it's a FWIW kind of comment.


SRF
Re: Perfect Pitch
coaster #2663004 07/21/17 08:12 AM
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I started off with strong relative pitch, and how that came about is a long story. "Pitch recognition" - commonly called "perfect pitch" came later due to some unexpected results from some training in something else, and more recently. So in regards to this, with the relative pitch I've always had.
Originally Posted by coaster

As a person who has it, I'd say the most practical uses are:

Memorization - I just play "how it goes." I play the music I hear in my head.

So do I, and always have, since childhood. It may be in a different key however. But when I practised for choir later in life, and got the starting note with the piano, forever after I would always sing in the correct pitch.
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Accompanying - when my soloist skips something or repeats something or (God forbid) jumps somewhere completely different in the music, I can see exactly where they are. I can match up my accompaniment on runs or whatever because I know exactly which note they are on at any given time.

Not that I accompany, but in similar situations --- yes, through relative pitch.
Quote
Instantaneously reproducing anything I hear. "Can you play this?" song I've never heard before in my life. Yep.

Also, ditto.
Quote
When it's a hindrance:

Accompanying - B-flat, E-flat, F instruments; instruments that use different clefs (I'm not used to middle C being on the middle line). That takes some getting used to. Fortunately, two of my kids are trumpet players and I accompany a lot of cellists, so now I'm pretty decent at reading B-flat solo lines and tenor clef.

Playing a VERY out of tune instrument (like a half step off or more).

These are problems I never have, since my main world is relative pitch.

About a decade ago I was given an exercise, which was for something else. I ended up with a very particular side effect. If I heard a pitch (microwave beep, singer, bathtub ringing from shower water striking it), I could go to the piano or another instrument, and my hand would just know which key to press or which fingering to use on the recorder (even the alto F recorder). I'd get the correct pitch instantly, first try. There were no names attached to this. I did not learn the names of notes until a few years ago, so that association was not developed. After playing that pitch, I'd look to see what note I had played and go "Oh, that was a Bb." Had I pursued it, this could possibly have developed further. I was in my fifties, btw.

I did only the first question in the test. I "had the impression" that one of the A's was a bit too flat, and was correct about it. I studied violin as an adult. If you don't have a tuner or piano, you pick up the phone which hums at A, though it also has some secondary tones to it. I didn't do the second question, because as usual it was about naming things, and also, if you got the sound of A in your ear, you'll be able to recognize the note in the following question, by calculating or "hearing" the interval.

Re: Perfect Pitch
BruceD #2663619 07/24/17 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Pointless test? Of what practical use is perfect pitch?

Regards,


1. When a priest suddenly sings at whatever key, people with perfect pitch will be able to find the key and start playing right away.
2. Easy to improvise if needed, because the pianists will be able to play what they hear in their brain.

Bad part:
It is so confusing when playing an instrument with base note is not concert C, like Saxophones, Clarinet.

Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2663717 07/24/17 06:32 PM
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3/4, and I think the one I missed (the last one) was missed because I tried to relate it to the previous ones, instead of just choosing. I don't think I have what is called perfect pitch.

But, as the very first example demonstrated, it's obvious that the actual frequency of a pitch choice is arbitrary. For another example, I used to have an old Chickering piano that specified the frequency for "A" right on the frame, and it wasn't 440. To me, that means that a lot of what is bandied about as being "perfect pitch" is really just excellent pitch memory, since the actual pitch isn't something that is set in concrete.

And, incidentally, it never has been set in concrete. I remember reading about a study about pitch in the Baroque era, and they figured out that in one German town for which they had good data, the frequencies of various pitches changed depending on what part of town you were in!

For me, listening to microtonal music has been an interesting way to learn something about how arbitrary it all is. If you are listening to a piece that's very long, it's interesting how tuning that sounded wrong and out of tune at first can settle down and be perfectly fine as the piece progresses.

Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2664071 07/26/17 11:06 AM
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I can almost always sing an E, A, D, G, or B, because I played guitar for many years in my youth. Those pitches are burned into memory. But, I can easily be confused by hearing something different, so my pitch is far from perfect. I find relative pitch allows me to live in peace with an environment where music is pitch shifted or they didn't have a tuner when it was recorded or the tape stretched. This seems to only happen when I'm listening to the radio and want to practice improvising on the guitar. I use a tuner on my guitar and then when I'm trying to find the key I find it's between frets.

As far as piano is concerned. It doesn't seem to be an issue because I don't practice improvising solos to the radio on piano.


Steve Chandler
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Re: Perfect Pitch
phantomFive #2664168 07/26/17 05:07 PM
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4/4 Quite easy to be honest.

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