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TuneLab97 basic questions #2662619 07/19/17 02:26 PM
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Hi. I'm new to the forum. Just downloaded TuneLab97, and reading the help docs and stuff in this forum. Planning to play with it on my piano.

How accurate (in cents) are the measurements? I see a comment about "within 30 cents" in some of the documentation. It must be better than that... is it?

I need to get a mic for my laptop where it's loaded. I've read that "any cheap mic will work", but "not too cheap". I'm trying to figure out what that means :-) Does anyone have any specific product suggestions? I see a huge range on Amazon for mics, from $5 to $50+. The $5 usb mic listed (https://www.amazon.com/Kinobo-Micro...3&sr=8-9&keywords=usb+microphone) has a range of about 2'. That can't be good enough... or is it?

The docs talk about needing to calibrate TuneLab97 once installed. Do people generally use the NIST tones at (303) 499-7111 to do this? How often does TuneLab97 need to be calibrated?

thanks!

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Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2662625 07/19/17 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sam1
Hi. I'm new to the forum. Just downloaded TuneLab97, and reading the help docs and stuff in this forum. Planning to play with it on my piano.

How accurate (in cents) are the measurements? I see a comment about "within 30 cents" in some of the documentation. It must be better than that... is it?

I need to get a mic for my laptop where it's loaded. I've read that "any cheap mic will work", but "not too cheap". I'm trying to figure out what that means :-) Does anyone have any specific product suggestions? I see a huge range on Amazon for mics, from $5 to $50+. The $5 usb mic listed (https://www.amazon.com/Kinobo-Micro...3&sr=8-9&keywords=usb+microphone) has a range of about 2'. That can't be good enough... or is it?

The docs talk about needing to calibrate TuneLab97 once installed. Do people generally use the NIST tones at (303) 499-7111 to do this? How often does TuneLab97 need to be calibrated?

thanks!


The microphone built into your laptop should be good enough. The flatness of the frequency response is not
important.

Tunelab in theory goes down to 0.01 cents.


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Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: Musicdude] #2662630 07/19/17 07:34 PM
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sam1 Offline OP
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"The microphone built into your laptop should be good enough. The flatness of the frequency response is not
important"



Thanks for the reply, but my laptop (an old Dell Inspiron 1100) does not have a built-in mic. Any suggestions?

Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2662631 07/19/17 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sam1

"The microphone built into your laptop should be good enough. The flatness of the frequency response is not
important"

Thanks for the reply, but my laptop (an old Dell Inspiron 1100) does not have a built-in mic. Any suggestions?


Yikes! That's an old one!

It at least has a 1/8th inch stereo mic input, right?

Or does it have a USB port? There are all sorts of USB mics available.....

Last edited by Musicdude; 07/20/17 12:57 AM.

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Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: Musicdude] #2662868 07/20/17 05:29 PM
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Yes, it has USB ports.

Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2662888 07/20/17 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sam1
Yes, it has USB ports.


Ok, maybe try a USB mic then......let us know if you need anymore assistance!

grin


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Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2662890 07/20/17 07:50 PM
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sam1 Offline OP
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thanks, I'll pick one up.

Any thoughts on my calibration question? The docs talk about needing to calibrate TuneLab97 once installed.
Do people generally use the NIST tones at (303) 499-7111 to do this? How often does TuneLab97 need to be calibrated?

Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2662976 07/21/17 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sam1
thanks, I'll pick one up.

Any thoughts on my calibration question? The docs talk about needing to calibrate TuneLab97 once installed.
Do people generally use the NIST tones at (303) 499-7111 to do this? How often does TuneLab97 need to be calibrated?


Actually never is often enough. It's just in case the crystal on your sound card (that determines the sample rate for the audio) is not exactly right. Once calibrated, you should never need to do it again - and, unless you're obsessed with absolutely perfect A=440Hz, it shouldn't matter as it will be close enough without calibration on any laptop built in the last decade.

Paul.

Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: pyropaul] #2663077 07/21/17 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pyropaul
Originally Posted by sam1
thanks, I'll pick one up.

Any thoughts on my calibration question? The docs talk about needing to calibrate TuneLab97 once installed.
Do people generally use the NIST tones at (303) 499-7111 to do this? How often does TuneLab97 need to be calibrated?


Actually never is often enough. It's just in case the crystal on your sound card (that determines the sample rate for the audio) is not exactly right. Once calibrated, you should never need to do it again - and, unless you're obsessed with absolutely perfect A=440Hz, it shouldn't matter as it will be close enough without calibration on any laptop built in the last decade.

Paul.


Agreed. I have never calibrated my copy of Tunelab, and when I checked to see how close
my A440 tuning fork was in Tunelab, it was spot on the money.

Modern crystal oscillator clocks have good parts per million specs, even over temp variations.

Last edited by Musicdude; 07/21/17 03:00 PM.

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Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2667624 08/11/17 12:41 PM
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For anyone searching in the future for info about microphones, I finally got this cheap mic:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D9TBSAY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If the link is dead, this is the text:
Yonger USB 2.0 Mini Microphone "Makio" Mic for Laptop/Desktop PCs - Skype / VOIP / Voice Recognition Software

It was $2 shipped! Works great with TuneLab97 on my laptop. I just put the laptop on the top of the piano, and it picks up string sounds well.

Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2667702 08/12/17 04:22 AM
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Be careful when using an external mic whether analogue or usb version. You should disable a laptop's internal mic first. This might not be as simple as first thought but if you Google the laptop model saying "how can I disable the internal mic?" you should get the information.

Ian


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Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2667749 08/12/17 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Beemer
Be careful when using an external mic whether analogue or usb version. You should disable a laptop's internal mic first. This might not be as simple as first thought but if you Google the laptop model saying "how can I disable the internal mic?" you should get the information.

Ian

I'm not computer savvy at all, other than turning it on and using it. However, my lap-top with the TuneLabPro software is an older Dell lap-top with windows XP. Since I only use it to tune, I have not updated the operating system. It has a small, 1/8" slot on the side to plug in an external mic. I use an inexpensive analog mic with the program. I did not know my lap-top had an internal mic; in fact, I assumed that since it had the input for the external mic, it did not have in internal mic.

However, the TuneLabPro program works great for my purposes.

My wife has an iPad that is a few years old. However, she never uses it, and I've forgotten her password for it. I had thought about upgrading and trying to use the iPad with the tuning program. But the lap-top works fine as-is, and I can see the display well with these old eyes. smile

Rick


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Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: Rickster] #2667847 08/13/17 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by Beemer
Be careful when using an external mic whether analogue or usb version. You should disable a laptop's internal mic first. This might not be as simple as first thought but if you Google the laptop model saying "how can I disable the internal mic?" you should get the information.

Ian

I'm not computer savvy at all, other than turning it on and using it. However, my lap-top with the TuneLabPro software is an older Dell lap-top with windows XP. Since I only use it to tune, I have not updated the operating system. It has a small, 1/8" slot on the side to plug in an external mic. I use an inexpensive analog mic with the program. I did not know my lap-top had an internal mic; in fact, I assumed that since it had the input for the external mic, it did not have in internal mic.

However, the TuneLabPro program works great for my purposes.

My wife has an iPad that is a few years old. However, she never uses it, and I've forgotten her password for it. I had thought about upgrading and trying to use the iPad with the tuning program. But the lap-top works fine as-is, and I can see the display well with these old eyes. smile

Rick


Rick,
I was having problems because the internal mic on my old Lenovo Thinkpad was picking up the sound of its fan and hard disk. This was a real problem when using Entropy tuning software as every note has to be recorded. I got much better results after disabling the internal mic. If you don't plug in an external mic then clap your hands whilst Tunelab is listening (or using any recording software) you can determine whether an internal mic exists.

Of course this is not a problem when using Tunelab with a Pocket PC.

Ian


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Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2668625 08/16/17 08:56 PM
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For anyone interested... I used the "Internet Calibration" feature built into TuneLab Pro, and it ended up adjusting the calibration by 10 cents. The process took 6hrs...

Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2668950 08/18/17 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by sam1
For anyone interested... I used the "Internet Calibration" feature built into TuneLab Pro, and it ended up adjusting the calibration by 10 cents. The process took 6hrs...


Something not quite right there. I once did the calibration and it only takes seconds to do.

I am surprised that your laptop quartz crystal and oscillator circuit is 10 Cents out.

435 Hz: -19.78 Cents
436 Hz: -15.81 Cents
437 Hz: -11.84 Cents
438 Hz: -7.89 Cents
439 Hz: -3.94 Cents
440 Hz: 0 Cents
441 Hz: +3.93 Cents
442 Hz: +7.85 Cents
443 Hz: +11.76 Cents
444 Hz: +15.67 Cents
445 Hz: +19.56 Cents

I suggest that you try calibrating to a high quality 440Hz steel tuning fork at or around 68F. You can check the tuning fork accuracy by listening to any beating against the NST frequency.

Ian


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Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2669032 08/18/17 12:27 PM
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I agree. Something is not right.

Even 80 year old crystals I have in my lab still maintain an accuracy of better than .025%, which makes them unusable. However, it is still only .43 cents. A typical modern cheap computer clock crystal will be accurate to at least one or two orders of magnitude better. I use a crystal that cost me $1.00 Canadian (about 80 cents US) that has a precision of 200.0000Hz. My equipment shows it to be accurate within .0001Hz or about 0.0009 cents.

Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: prout] #2669081 08/18/17 03:54 PM
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Thanks for the replies.

Interesting. When TuneLabPro's "Internet Calibration" starts, it says that it will take a full 6 hrs to complete (and it did take 6 hrs). As it runs, it shows how accurate (in cents) the calibration is to that point, and allows the user to stop it at any point during the 6 hrs and take what it has so far. At the end of my 6hrs it said -10 cents adjustment.

I just ran a calibration in TuneLabPro where it calibrates to the NIST broadcast tone (at 303-488-7111). This took about 15 seconds, and TuneLabPro said that it adjusted my computer's oscillator offset by -11.2 cents. Pretty close to the Internet Calibration result of -10 cents adjustment. Should I still be concerned?

I don't have 440 Hz tuning fork or I'd try it. I should probably get one...
Ian, did you mean "check the tuning fork against the NIST broadcast tone?" But since the NIST tone is 500Hz, I'd need to hear a 60Hz beat (500 Hz - 440 Hz). I don't think my ears are that good :-)
Or did you mean something else?

Any other suggestions?

My laptop is rather old (about 15yrs old), it's a Dell Inspiron 1100. Not sure if that matters....

thanks again

Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2669083 08/18/17 04:15 PM
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NIST broadcasts 440Hz, 500Hz, and 600Hz at different times durimg the hour. You have to pick the right reference (I think).

When you go to the "HELP'/"About" menu, what is the actual sample rate shown after your calibration?



Last edited by prout; 08/18/17 04:25 PM.
Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2669086 08/18/17 04:27 PM
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Yes, I reran the NIST calibtation using both 500Hz and 600Hz tones, got the same results (-11.2 offset).

After the calibration, as a double check, I then simply had TuneLab listen to the 500 Hz and 600 Hz tones from NIST and show the tone on the freq spectrum graph. They were spot on (within far less than 0.5Hz from what my eyes could see). I don't see a problem with the TuneLab calibration. Thanks for the concern and comments though... I learned something from this discussion! :-)

Re: TuneLab97 basic questions [Re: sam1] #2669087 08/18/17 04:28 PM
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The "help About" box shows:

Actual sample rate: 22199.741 Hz

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