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Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage #2660521
07/11/17 10:24 AM
07/11/17 10:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 155
Boston/Cambridge
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Fleer Offline OP
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Fleer  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2016
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What are your thoughts, gentlemen?

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Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: Fleer] #2660723
07/12/17 05:44 AM
07/12/17 05:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,181
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Doug M.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,181
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Fleer
What are your thoughts, gentlemen?


Has anybody outside the industry played the GrandStage yet?

Looks nice doesn't it! Doesn't have modelled acoustic pianos, only modelled EPs right?
Also it seems to have only 3 sliders. Looks a bit like a black Nord Piano in the way the sounds and effects are selected and applied, so that's their strategy right there---a Nord competitor. A nob that changes touch sensitivity (dynamics) is an example of that Nord philosophy of avoiding screens and menus.

One negative comment: the keyboard stand is hideous, looks like it duels as a tent frame in its spare time.

Nice demo by sweetwater. Erskine Hawkins plays jazz on it with varying results. As usual, the Korg has great e-pianos. Not a surprise. Organs not bad either: according to the specs, it has the CX3 engine: great news. Nice presets, but touch pad drawbars instead of full sliders---that has to be a poor decision right there given that most of the instrument UI is off screen.

Overall, I'd say a fun instrument: a live UI version mixing the philosophy of the Kronos (many sound engines) mixed with the Nords (everything out in dials, nobs and switches if possible). The major fly in the ointment is that it still carries the RH3 action. The RH3 action is so 'old hat', they could market it as a genuine antique digital action.

As a comparative, I think it would be fairer to compare the Korg GrandStage to the Kurzweil Artis, the Nord Piano 3 and the MP7. It certainly isn't a match for the RD2000, which is a high end professional stage piano rather than a giggers wet dream (see 20Kg weight). With that in mind, there are a few questions: how about the build quality (after issues with the SV1), how do the pianos cut through on stage, will it take a triple pedal, and how easy is it to store and recall presets?

Key specs:
SGX-2 (Acoustic Piano Sound Engine): 60 dual stereo notes (equivalent to 240 voices max.)
EP-1 (Electric Piano Sound Engine): 100 voices
AL-1 (Analog Modeling Sound Engine): 36 voices
CX-3 (Tonewheel Organ Sound Engine): 128 voices
VOX Organ (Transistor Organ Sound Engine): 100 voices
Compact Organ (Transistor Organ Sound Engine): 100 voices
HD-1 (PCM Sound Engine): 64 stereo notes (equivalent to 128 voices max.)

Preloaded PCM Storage Capacity: Approx. 19 GB (approx. 32 GB using linear conversion)
Favorites: 64 (Includes 32 preloads)
Dimensions (W x D x H) 88-key: 1311 mm x 359 mm x 140 mm / 51.64" x 14.13" x 5.51" (excluding hideous music stand)
Weight 88-key: 20.0 kg / 44.09 lbs (excluding hideous music stand)
Hard Case: HC-Grandstage 88 (dedicated hard case for 88 key model)


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: Fleer] #2660742
07/12/17 08:12 AM
07/12/17 08:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,625
ElmerJFudd Offline
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ElmerJFudd  Offline
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Won't know until we can get our hands on the Grandstage. Not in any shops near me yet.
My first thought is - will I like the RH3 action and it's connection to engines any better on this instrument than on other Korg keyboards. I'm keeping an open mind, but historically the answer would be no.
Secondly, are the acoustic pianos any good? The APs on the SV-1 aren't stellar and even on the Kronos APs aren't the engine that gets the most praise. Korg has also decided to lock the user out of editing much on the Grandstage as part of an effort to keep the user interface simple. And, it's only capable of a single split/laye. The RD-2000 is more robust in this area and a better pick as a midi controller.

I have played the RD-2000 often and extensively now. The V-Piano engine does some nice acoustic piano sounds and there's decent variety. The rest of the timbres are classic Roland bread and butter, lots of useable stuff, very recognizable. The PHA-50 is ok. Not very different from other Roland PHA labeled actions but different from the Ivory Feel-G on the FA-08 and others. The 50 feels a little slow to me, but you get used to it after a while.

I'm not sure either of these new stage pianos are going to make it into my rig. Need to see how Kawai and Yamaha respond.

On the "free" stand with the Grandstage. Obviously you're not obliged to use it... it's a throw back to old electric organ stands like the Farfisa and VOX organ stands. I believe they will soon be releasing their VOX combo organ and it will be mounted on this stand as well... tempting Grandstage adopters to also pick up the VOX and vice versa.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

This is about a retro look and get some mind share away from Nord like the SV-1.

Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2660754
07/12/17 08:38 AM
07/12/17 08:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,181
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Doug M.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,181
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd

On the "free" stand with the Grandstage. Obviously you're not obliged to use it... it's a throw back to old electric organ stands like the Farfisa and VOX organ stands. I believe they will soon be releasing their VOX combo organ and it will be mounted on this stand as well... tempting Grandstage adopters to also pick up the VOX and vice versa.


+1 Agree with your comments.

Tell me you desire this retro look?? Can see how it would fit 2 boards, although the GrandStage already has VOX combo organs. It's one of those design mistakes: functional, smart, but not exactly fitting the board.

[Linked Image]


Last edited by Doug M.; 07/12/17 09:39 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
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Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: Fleer] #2660768
07/12/17 09:47 AM
07/12/17 09:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,625
ElmerJFudd Offline
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ElmerJFudd  Offline
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Posts: 1,625
It's a retro look. For performers searching for a new vibe (or in this case, a returning style), I can see the appeal. The ability to place the keyboard at the height and tilt you need it to be is good. Also, obviously you will be able to stack at least two - maybe three keyboards on it and tilt them as needed.

But, for practicality - for what I do... which is roll in carrying my own gear, setup, perform, roll out - with often tight space requirements, no this interpretation of the stand isn't going to work.

It doesn't look like its going to break down and setup fast or be easy to carry (they better offer a good quality canvas type bag for it). It's also adds width to the keyboards which often isn't available on the bandstand. And the shiny chrome screams, "look at me" and in classy venues and events that's not what you're trying to do. On the other hand, on the concert stage in a "show" where you have roadies and all the space you want. It looks pretty cool.

Here is the Korg VOX reissue placed on a similar chrome stand. The plan must be to have the Grandstage and VOX concept both mounted on the new stand.
[Linked Image]

Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2660792
07/12/17 11:28 AM
07/12/17 11:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,181
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Doug M.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,181
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
It doesn't look like its going to break down and setup fast or be easy to carry (they better offer a good quality canvas type bag for it). It's also adds width to the keyboards which often isn't available on the bandstand.


That's what I can't figure out: the 88 note piano is usually the longest keyboard on a rack, why have 6-8" of clearance. What you say sounds reasonable: pro-musician who operates on big stages might use this. It does look pretty heavy duty.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: Fleer] #2660802
07/12/17 11:47 AM
07/12/17 11:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 155
Boston/Cambridge
F
Fleer Offline OP
Full Member
Fleer  Offline OP
Full Member
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 155
Boston/Cambridge
Many questions indeed.
As for build quality, they are explicitly saying it's "Japan made" whereas the SV-1 is built in Italy if I'm not mistaken.
Another thing, maybe that Vox Continental wil have the same sounds included, so could be the better choice.
As I already have an FA06, I'm thinking the RD-2000 is not the way to go for me, 'cause it will have a lot of the same sounds, of course apart from the V-Piano.
So a lot rests on the quality of the GrandStage's (and Continental's) acoustic piano sound.

Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: Fleer] #2660841
07/12/17 01:23 PM
07/12/17 01:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 539
Virginia, USA
K
Kbeaumont Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 539
Virginia, USA
I'm wondering if the all connection points on the stand are quick release. You might be surprised and the assembly and tear down could be easier than it seems from the pics. I could see it being used where the setup is semi-permanent just moved within the same building like a church or school.

The ability to angle the board up would make it easier on the arms for standing playing for extended periods plus the audience can see your hands. I know a couple of players who do that, the audiences seem to really like it. The width also has me perplexed, but I'm thinking they have another product in the pipeline that needs that dimension.


A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: Fleer] #2660842
07/12/17 01:26 PM
07/12/17 01:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,625
ElmerJFudd Offline
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ElmerJFudd  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,625
Originally Posted by Fleer
Many questions indeed.
As for build quality, they are explicitly saying it's "Japan made" whereas the SV-1 is built in Italy if I'm not mistaken.
Another thing, maybe that Vox Continental wil have the same sounds included, so could be the better choice.
As I already have an FA06, I'm thinking the RD-2000 is not the way to go for me, 'cause it will have a lot of the same sounds, of course apart from the V-Piano.
So a lot rests on the quality of the GrandStage's (and Continental's) acoustic piano sound.


The FA-06, especially with the continued firmware development is a great get-the-job-done lightweight little keyboard. Even as owner though, you have to admit it does not have the nicest synth action Roland has ever put on a keyboard (and that's being nice). The same is true of the VR-09 - although the FA-06 kills it away sound-for-sound feature-for-feature (but is of course missing the drawbars if you like manipulating them live).

Now the FA-07 has the new action which we think came off the Jupiter-50 which is a big improvement. I'd take one in a heart beat... if they had put drawbars or at the very least faders on it, I'd be 36 month financing it right now against my better judgement! wink

Back on the RD-2000 - it's still 47lbs 14oz (same as the RD-800). When you add that to a decent gig back, that's a heavy drag.
Granstage 73 is 37.5lbs. 15 keys less for 10lbs. Perfectly fine for playing with a bass player. Sucks for solo piano though. I like the 88 keys when playing solo.

Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2660850
07/12/17 01:41 PM
07/12/17 01:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,887
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anotherscott Offline
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
The same is true of the VR-09 - although the FA-06 kills it away sound-for-sound feature-for-feature (but is of course missing the drawbars if you like manipulating them live).

I found the VR-09 to have a better harmonica sound. Also a harpsichord sound I preferred. It's always something... ;-) Also, while of course less capable overall, the VR has some of its own tricks... like the overdrive control (among others) is independent of its other effects and so can be combined in ways you cannot on the FA. I prefer the VR-09 rotary emulation over the FA (though the FA has the sub out making it more usable than the VR for getting an even better rotary sim from an external pedal).

Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
if they had put drawbars or at the very least faders on it, I'd be 36 month financing it right now against my better judgement! wink

If you have an iPad, you can at least get on-sceen sliders.
http://mididesigner.com/qa/3093/roland-fa06-supernatural-synth-editor?show=4239#a4239

Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: Fleer] #2660853
07/12/17 01:49 PM
07/12/17 01:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,625
ElmerJFudd Offline
1000 Post Club Member
ElmerJFudd  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,625
Oh, it's definitely always something, Scott! No truer words spoken. But eventually we make a choice and take the compromise. smile

An iPad or multi-touch screen is better than nothing, and obviously really helpful when making your sounds, saving presets. But it's not a great solution live in the moment. Real drawbars - finger tips on the grab and base of palm on the push... hard to substitute for that. And I've no idea how well the Korg VOX strips are going to work. There's no push and you can't feel what you've grabbed on the pull. But the lights will be enough feed back to know what registration you have called up. Maybe presets is the way to go on these drawbar-less models.

Re: Roland RD-2000 or Korg GrandStage [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2660864
07/12/17 02:19 PM
07/12/17 02:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,887
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anotherscott Offline
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
An iPad or multi-touch screen is better than nothing, and obviously really helpful when making your sounds, saving presets. But it's not a great solution live in the moment. Real drawbars - finger tips on the grab and base of palm on the push... hard to substitute for that.

Although discontinued, if you can scare up an Ocean Beach drawbar unit, it works on the FA.


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