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Garritan CFX Grand - installing partial samples #2659284
07/06/17 11:13 AM
07/06/17 11:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,756
G
Gombessa Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,756
I've been waiting for my new machine for a few months now, and decided to see if I could get the non-compact CFX Grand samples installed on my current rig with a 128GB SSD.

I found that the compact and full samples share the same directory structure, but there's a registry somewhere that tells the install whether you have Compact or Full installed, and that registry doesn't reside in any Preferences or Application Support plist (on Mac) or in the installed app executable that I could find.

However, if I reinstalled CFX with Full setting, and cancel the install after the executables and support files are copied (and before the sample file install fills up the SSD), I can create a new Full (~130GB) install on another machine, and copy over the full sample set I wanted for Classic/Contemp/Player (Users/Shared/CFX_Samples/xxx), and it loads perfectly.

So now I have what is essentially a custom CFX install with full Classic and Player, and compact Contemporary mic samples (which I may delete, who uses contemp?) which fit on a 128GB SSD.

Is there an easier way to do this than abort mid-installation?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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Re: Garritan CFX Grand - installing partial samples [Re: Gombessa] #2659605
07/07/17 11:43 AM
07/07/17 11:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 144
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bsntn99 Online content
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bsntn99  Online Content
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 144
I have the lite version for the PC, so can tell you how it works in this situation. Both the lite presets and full use the same samples. The only difference is that the lite presets only draw from 10 instead of 20 velocity layers and uses fewer notes stretching these across multiple keys. With Windows there is no registry key to distinguish between these, only the location where you store the samples.

Now I'm guessing for the full product version, the compact installation only installs the samples needed for the lite presets. In this case the presets installed are the lite versions which in the scripting only needs this smaller sample set.

The way the scripting works is that whichever preset you choose, it tries to load 60 kb of each sample into a buffer. If upon loading it does not find the sample, it will give an error, but will still play with 'holes' for those particular note/velocity samples that are missing. CFX also includes separate samples for the soft pedal, nopedal and sus(tain) sets. I deleted these at one point to save space and although I got a load error, I was still able to play the normal sustain pedal samples.

If you installed the full version, but used a smaller set of samples, then at some point it should give an error upon loading a preset. Not sure why you are not seeing this without looking at the installed scripts. Maybe you ended up with a mix of full and compact presets. Sounds like you lucked out with whatever you did.

The only way to really get a total custom install is to edit the preset files to reference only the samples you want to install. You still have to install the full set of samples somewhere and then pick out the ones you don't want. Another way to reduce space is to compact the samples to flac and edit the preset files which I know works. I already suggested this to Jeff, the lead programmer, to give a smaller install footprint but never heard back. Both of these take a lot of knowledge on programming and other tools.

Re: Garritan CFX Grand - installing partial samples [Re: Gombessa] #2659617
07/07/17 12:06 PM
07/07/17 12:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,381
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TheodorN  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,381
Sweden
Can all this hassle be avoided by buying the Lite version, then upgrading to the full version, when the SSD situation is better? I know it's too late for Gombessa, but for myself and others who might be considering the Garritan CFX, but can't or don't want to dish out for a new SSD, I wonder if that is the best option.

Last edited by TheodorN; 07/07/17 12:08 PM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Garritan CFX Grand - installing partial samples [Re: TheodorN] #2659632
07/07/17 12:44 PM
07/07/17 12:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,756
G
Gombessa Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,756
Originally Posted by bsntn99
I have the lite version for the PC, so can tell you how it works in this situation. Both the lite presets and full use the same samples. The only difference is that the lite presets only draw from 10 instead of 20 velocity layers and uses fewer notes stretching these across multiple keys. With Windows there is no registry key to distinguish between these, only the location where you store the samples.


I've been wondering lately if I should have just gone with Lite, since 90% of the time I just just Classic (compact), or now Classic (full). However, having listened to samples, I think I get a lot of emotive value out of the ambient mic perspectives, which is the main thing missing from Lite. And every once in a while I use the binaural player perspective, but that's just on a whim.

Also, judging from the directory structure, I think there may be more differences between the Compact and Full installs than I originally understood. On the full install, there are directories within each perspective for:

-noped
-pedalnoise
-releases
-soft
-softsus
-sus

Half of these are missing from the compact presets (at least on Mac).

Originally Posted by bsntn99
If you installed the full version, but used a smaller set of samples, then at some point it should give an error upon loading a preset. Not sure why you are not seeing this without looking at the installed scripts. Maybe you ended up with a mix of full and compact presets. Sounds like you lucked out with whatever you did.


My thinking is this is how CFX installs:

The app and Aria player install first, with whatever settings tell it if a Compact or Full install was requested. If Full, the file manifest that is added is for the full data set, so it looks in the appropriate director ("CFX-Samples/X on Mac" for Classic). What I did was perform a full, complete install on a 1TB SSD system beforehand. So when I aborted the second install after selecting full, I could copy only the X directory, and the executable searches for and loads all samples correctly. It does take 3-5x as long to load as it does the Compact fileset. And if I attempt to load a "Contemporary" fileset, of which I only have a Compact installation, I get file not found errors upon load which results in "holes" in playing.

Originally Posted by TheodorN
Can all this hassle be avoided by buying the Lite version, then upgrading to the full version, when the SSD situation is better? I know it's too late for Gombessa, but for myself and others who might be considering the Garritan CFX, but can't or don't want to dish out for a new SSD, I wonder if that is the best option.


If you like the sound of the Lite, I think that's the right way to go. I really thought the Ambient mics added to the realism, which is why I sprung for Full from the get-go. Also, both were on sale for the same discount when I purchased, and I didn't know if the upgrade would raise in price later...


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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Re: Garritan CFX Grand - installing partial samples [Re: Gombessa] #2659651
07/07/17 01:34 PM
07/07/17 01:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,381
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TheodorN  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,381
Sweden
The full CFX is around1450 SEK at Musicians Friend, depending on the exchange rate. When I buy something in dollars, I pay about 9 SEK for the dollar, so we're talking about $160. That's not a ridiculously high price for a top piano VST, deeply sampled. I reckon the Lite then upgrade path is around $200, only $40 more, again depending on the exchange rate. Therefore, the upgrade path is appealing, to me at least, and I don't need to upgrade if I'll be satisfied with CFX Lite.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Garritan CFX Grand - installing partial samples [Re: TheodorN] #2659659
07/07/17 02:00 PM
07/07/17 02:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,756
G
Gombessa Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,756
Originally Posted by TheodorN
I reckon the Lite then upgrade path is around $200, only $40 more, again depending on the exchange rate. Therefore, the upgrade path is appealing, to me at least, and I don't need to upgrade if I'll be satisfied with CFX Lite.


I haven't looked into the upgrade price scheme vis a vis intl fx rates, but when I purchased (also from Musician's friend, on-sale and also using their 15% or 20% discount coupon), the price for the CFX Full was exactly the same as the Lite + Upgrade, which is why I chose to just go for the full.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Garritan CFX Grand - installing partial samples [Re: Gombessa] #2659666
07/07/17 02:43 PM
07/07/17 02:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,381
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TheodorN  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,381
Sweden
OK understand, first I thought only the full CFX was available at MF, and I'd have to go through Time and Space to get the upgrade, after Lite.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.

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