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Regarding jury comments, I needed to leave Sunday morning so did not get to speak to the judges this year...Alas, that is such a valuable thing. HOWEVER..I have found over the years that I have gotten many conflicting opinions on repertoire. What was not well received one time may have been perfect another time. It is subjective opinion and should not really affect future considerations I think. Play what you love and play well!
Musica 71
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Regarding jury comments, I needed to leave Sunday morning so did not get to speak to the judges this year...Alas, that is such a valuable thing. HOWEVER..I have found over the years that I have gotten many conflicting opinions on repertoire. What was not well received one time may have been perfect another time. It is subjective opinion and should not really affect future considerations I think. Play what you love and play well! I cannot agree more. It is hard to feel the piece if we do not like the piece.
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The post you responded to thought I didn't read a particular post and commented on that alone.... Not that this is worth it (it isn't) ......but You were answering this post of mine, which said: That's what can happen when someone is so into his own view that something keeps him from seeing things that support or explain or demonstrate the other view. It's been done to other posts in this thread too. Please give it up, plover. I think we've all said all we've got, and the disagreements have been well noted. Since you both live in NYC, perhaps the two of you should get together for coffee.
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Has anybody considered what a burden winning silver is: all that polishing! A punster (punmeister?)! You are, indeed, a person after my own heart!
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Regarding jury comments, I needed to leave Sunday morning so did not get to speak to the judges this year...Alas, that is such a valuable thing. HOWEVER..I have found over the years that I have gotten many conflicting opinions on repertoire. What was not well received one time may have been perfect another time. It is subjective opinion and should not really affect future considerations I think. Play what you love and play well! Well said. I think all/most of the discussion about repertoire is fruitless strategizing and, for at least some, shows how badly they want to do well. Any of the pieces that some posters say are not good choices, if played well enough, would win prizes for the performers!
Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/28/17 02:46 PM.
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The post you responded to thought I didn't read a particular post and commented on that alone.... Not that this is worth it (it isn't) ......but You were answering this post of mine, which said: That's what can happen when someone is so into his own view that something keeps him from seeing things that support or explain or demonstrate the other view. It's been done to other posts in this thread too. Please give it up, plover. I think we've all said all we've got, and the disagreements have been well noted. Haha, you didn't quote the rest of the post that said exactly what I said it did. If you really said all you needed why bother to respond to my post?
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I'm commenting in response to the discussions about jury feedback, how seriously to take it, how we would prefer them to give it, etc. I participated in the Boston competition in 2013, making it to the semifinals. I was interested in learning what I could from members of the jury, so I put myself in the line for comments and got to speak to two of the jurors. The one whose remarks were particularly valuable to me was Mr. Rivera, who also served on the jury during the current competition. The jurors picked the piece(s) they wished to discuss, and he chose to focus on my performance of Liebesleid ("Love's Sorrow"), the arrangement by Rachmaninoff of a melody by Fritz Kreisler. The piece is a lovely, lilting waltz that goes through several (challenging) variations and then a sort of fantasy interlude of swirling high-register arpeggios a bit reminiscent of Debussy or Ravel, followed by a return to the theme and coda. In my mind, I envision a young romantic heroine at the outset, with the swirling arpeggios to me representing the passage of "the sands of time"; and with the heroine, in the final (poignant) recap of the theme, emerging much older, lonelier, and sadder (cf. the pop song "Those Were The Days"). Mr. Rivera began by expressing regret that the final theme statement didn't seem different, in character, from the first. Because he was looking for precisely what I had wanted to deliver (and, in fact, thought I had been delivering), I pressed him several times to explain, finally getting him to suggest that my left hand play a "lift" on the second beat of each measure when keeping the waltz time. Something about the way he explained it allowed me to realize that this was exactly what I had been searching for in a number of waltzes (and, in fact, had approached in another piece without thinking of it in the same way). Moreover, this interchange allowed me to understand how, even later in life and decades after having formally studied piano, a lesson or two with a master could prove to be incredibly valuable. It had taken prodding on my part, but that piece of feedback from him was pianistic "gold." (So maybe it's not a bad idea to press for specifics!)
By the way, I had a terrific experience that year and had real pangs not being in Boston this time around. I'm already practicing for the one in two years!
Last edited by Jeremy Stone; 06/28/17 04:00 PM.
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Regarding jury comments, I needed to leave Sunday morning so did not get to speak to the judges this year...Alas, that is such a valuable thing. HOWEVER..I have found over the years that I have gotten many conflicting opinions on repertoire. What was not well received one time may have been perfect another time. It is subjective opinion and should not really affect future considerations I think. Play what you love and play well! Well said. I think all/most of the discussion about repertoire is fruitless strategizing and, for at least some, shows how badly they want to do well. Any of the pieces that some posters say are not good choices, if played well enough, would win prizes for the performers! Ha! Finally something I can partially agree with. Those parts are the "Well said" comment and the observation that even a notionally poor repertoire choice, if played technically perfectly and with musical conviction, would probably satisfy jurors enough to advance the contestant or win a prize -- in theory at least. Regarding the other remark(s), why is it so bad to want to do well? Do we want the scourge of participation trophies and equalization of accomplishment to overtake the world of music performance as it has most other things? Coaster's analogy with marathon running was entirely apt IMO. We train and, yes, strategize (placement of long runs in the schedule, tapering before the event, etc.) in order to do our best because, as most people would agree, if something hard is worth doing, it's worth doing well.
SRF
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I'm commenting in response to the discussions about jury feedback, how seriously to take it, how we would prefer them to give it, etc. I participated in the Boston competition in 2013, making it to the semifinals. I was interested in learning what I could from members of the jury, so I put myself in the line for comments and got to speak to two of the jurors. The one whose remarks were particularly valuable to me was Mr. Rivera, who also served on the jury during the current competition. . . .
By the way, I had a terrific experience that year and had real pangs not being in Boston this time around. I'm already practicing for the one in two years! Unfortunately Mr. Rivera was one of the two jurors I didn't get to speak to, though based on your post I really wish I had. Interesting that your memory of the conversation is so fresh two years on. Thanks for sharing this, Jeremy. I really enjoyed reading it. Maybe I'll get to meet you at the next one?!
SRF
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Unfortunately Mr. Rivera was one of the two jurors I didn't get to speak to, though based on your post I really wish I had. Interesting that your memory of the conversation is so fresh two years on. Thanks for sharing this, Jeremy. I really enjoyed reading it.
Maybe I'll get to meet you at the next one?! [/quote] You could try to e mail the judge and see if you get a response.
Last edited by musica71; 06/29/17 06:56 PM.
Musica 71
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Regarding the other remark(s), why is it so bad to want to do well? Do we want the scourge of participation trophies and equalization of accomplishment to overtake the world of music performance as it has most other things? Coaster's analogy with marathon running was entirely apt IMO. We train and, yes, strategize (placement of long runs in the schedule, tapering before the event, etc.) in order to do our best because, as most people would agree, if something hard is worth doing, it's worth doing well. I think it's a question of degree. Wanting to do well is reasonable but the endless strategizing(not on this thread but on other amateur competition threads)like endless practicing of the same pieces over and over is, I think, overdoing this is a major way. For professionals competitions are a necessary evil because of the opportunities they afford even for those not winning prizes. But I don't think making music should be a competitive event for amateurs. I think the obsessive strategizing is a sign of more than a desire to play reasonably well. I think it's a sign of the ego over involvement of some competitors. I was not able to watch the competition discussed on this thread due to endless buffering, but I have watched other amateur competitions a little. I have been struck that many of the competitors don't seem to be enjoying themselves during the performance and don't think amateur music performance should be like this. A fairly large percent seem to be struggling with the technical demands of pieces perhaps too difficult for them.
Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/29/17 07:14 PM.
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Wanting to do well is reasonable but the endless strategizing (not on this thread but on other amateur competition threads) like endless practicing of the same pieces over and over is, I think, overdoing this is a major way.... The extended practicing of the same pieces (yes, I purposely modified "endless" to "extended") isn't about "strategizing." (At least for me, which is all I can know for sure, but I suspect it's likewise for many if not most others.) It's about seizing on the special motivation provided by these competitions to get deeper and deeper into the pieces and play them better and better, which also involves discovering more and more about the mechanics of playing the piano and about ways of trying to solve musical and technical issues. It's a journey -- a fascinating and gripping one. And y'know, let me extend an invitation. Or, better, let's call it just a suggestion, first of all because it's not my place to invite and secondly because I suspect you don't particularly want any invitations from me. Why not try one of these amateur competitions yourself, and see what it offers, what it inspires? Many of us have noted aspects of these competitions that we find musically inspiring, besides the fact that we just have good times at these events. Why not try it and see if there isn't something like those things in it even for you? We'd love to have you there.
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Unfortunately Mr. Rivera was one of the two jurors I didn't get to speak to, though based on your post I really wish I had. Interesting that your memory of the conversation is so fresh two years on. Thanks for sharing this, Jeremy. I really enjoyed reading it.
Maybe I'll get to meet you at the next one?!
I hope so! Thanks for responding.
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Thanks for the suggestion, Musica. However, I've kind of moved on now and the repertoire thing seems a bit like a dead end, as you kind of intimated in your post.
SRF
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Regarding the other remark(s), why is it so bad to want to do well? Do we want the scourge of participation trophies and equalization of accomplishment to overtake the world of music performance as it has most other things? Coaster's analogy with marathon running was entirely apt IMO. We train and, yes, strategize (placement of long runs in the schedule, tapering before the event, etc.) in order to do our best because, as most people would agree, if something hard is worth doing, it's worth doing well. I think it's a question of degree. Wanting to do well is reasonable but the endless strategizing(not on this thread but on other amateur competition threads)like endless practicing of the same pieces over and over is, I think, overdoing this is a major way. For professionals competitions are a necessary evil because of the opportunities they afford even for those not winning prizes. But I don't think making music should be a competitive event for amateurs. I think the obsessive strategizing is a sign of more than a desire to play reasonably well. I think it's a sign of the ego over involvement of some competitors. I was not able to watch the competition discussed on this thread due to endless buffering, but I have watched other amateur competitions a little. I have been struck that many of the competitors don't seem to be enjoying themselves during the performance and don't think amateur music performance should be like this. A fairly large percent seem to be struggling with the technical demands of pieces perhaps too difficult for them. Playing well in a competition setting is the ultimate test. Some people get satisfaction if they can play well in a competition. I have witnessed many people who entered competition a lot have improved their quality of playing, because they keep working on perfecting their playing. Those who are afraid of entering competitions were behind in playing quality. I think some people are just not built to play under competition setting, it is just too much for them emotionally. There are so many positive reasons to enter amateur competitions. Most of the people entering the competition have good reasons, again not all.
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Pianoloverus,
If you ask my dad whether riding a roller coaster is a fun thing, he will say that it is such a stupid thing for people to spend money and get tortured. Entering piano competitions is the same concept. For those who like the thrill of competing is such a fun thing to do. I agree with you, for some, entering competitions is for some kind of power trip for them. They want people to think that they are good etc. But in general, people entering piano competitions is for the thrill of performing under competition setup which is the tougher setup. Yes, it is an emotional torture, but it is fun. It is like riding a roller coaster. Some people like strolling on a beach, some like to climb a clive.
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Wanting to do well is reasonable but the endless strategizing (not on this thread but on other amateur competition threads) like endless practicing of the same pieces over and over is, I think, overdoing this is a major way.... The extended practicing of the same pieces (yes, I purposely modified "endless" to "extended") isn't about "strategizing." I didn't say that endless practicing was strategizing, I said it was another aspect of overdoing the desire to do reasonably well. I think it's much more interesting, rewarding, and beneficial to work on more pieces than to endlessly practice a few pieces.
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I didn't say that endless practicing was strategizing, I said it was another aspect of overdoing the desire to do reasonably well. I think it's much more interesting, rewarding, and beneficial to work on more pieces than to endlessly practice a few pieces.
In your opinion, and in terms of your own preferences. I accept that. Everybody's different. I really can't understand why you won't accept different people enjoy different things for different reasons.
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I read somewhere regarding piano or any other musical competition, it is actually like a sport competition. We have to put a lot of thought on choosing the pieces, the order of the pieces, practicing the pieces, mastering, etc etc.
Some people like to just play at whatever quality, but some people love to play at the highest quality that they can achieve through well thought practicing process. In several piano groups that I have joined, I really cannot understand when people who keep playing different new pieces with very low quality. It sounded as if they were just sight playing the pieces. These people also cannot understand why I enjoy working on the same pieces till I can play well. It is just different perspectives, I guess.
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I read somewhere regarding piano or any other musical competition, it is actually like a sport competition. We have to put a lot of thought on choosing the pieces, the order of the pieces, practicing the pieces, mastering, etc etc.
Some people like to just play at whatever quality, but some people love to play at the highest quality that they can achieve through well thought practicing process. In several piano groups that I have joined, I really cannot understand when people who keep playing different new pieces with very low quality. It sounded as if they were just sight playing the pieces. These people also cannot understand why I enjoy working on the same pieces till I can play well. It is just different perspectives, I guess. My guess is that some of those people may not realize their performances are at a low level. There are certainly a large number of YouTube performances at a low level, but I think most of the time those posters think their performances were good. Performance level" means a different thing to different people, and I think it's usually directly proportional to the pianist's ability. Do you think performing music should be like a sporting competition? Sports, by their inherent nature have a winner but I don't think that kind of approach makes much sense for making music. There seems to be no way to avoid competition when it comes to professional pianists since they can be so helpful in terms of a performing career, but I have never heard a professional say that competitions would still be a good thing even if there were no potential career benefits.
Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/30/17 11:54 AM.
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