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Steinway D Concert Grand #2655822
06/23/17 12:48 PM
06/23/17 12:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 169
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Cinjero Offline OP
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Production Voices (production grand) has announced / updated the progress @90%. With released possibly in the FALL.

Total library (all versions 24/96, 24, 16) nearing 580 gigs. (gulp) ~ 16 bit alone is 100 gig.

https://vimeo.com/222850726/6293497e54

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2655844
06/23/17 02:04 PM
06/23/17 02:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,414
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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It sounds really nice. Recently, I got an email from PV, with an update for the GUI of the Estate Grand, which fixed the issue of the microphone sliders not appearing. I was about to answer and thank for the update, taking the opportunity to ask about the upcoming Steinway D, but now I don't need to.

I will take a serious look at this instrument from PV, when it's released, but probably a watered down version. Not willing to fork out for another SSD, but I might change my mind about that! A 50+ GB VSTi seems to be becoming the norm these days, at least among the big names.

Last edited by TheodorN; 06/23/17 02:05 PM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2655854
06/23/17 02:42 PM
06/23/17 02:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 584
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slobajudge Offline
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I am afraid there are too many microphones and that means lots of (useless ? HZpiano comes to my mind) samples that bring unnecessary GB instead of max 4 mics with more velocity levels. Anyway lets wait and see, maybe it will be real good.

Last edited by slobajudge; 06/23/17 02:44 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2655871
06/23/17 04:23 PM
06/23/17 04:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,953
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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How many layers would be needed?

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: slobajudge] #2655876
06/23/17 04:31 PM
06/23/17 04:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,015
canada
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johnlewisgrant Offline
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I have the full version Yamaha, which is very, very low noise; "realistic" tone (from my subjective standpoint); many layers (forget exactly how many). Meticulous sampling. It's a Yamaha, however; so not a sample I would (myself) use for classical material--which is what I do.

If I had a criticism of the Yammy, it would be that that sample lacked a bit of "air" at the very, very highest frequencies. No more lacking in the high frequencies than any other high end sample, mind you, perhaps with the exception of the HZP, which has only 4 usable layers, but which definitely has the "air" (highest frequency tone/sound characteristics) that make some recordings made with it very comparable to many modern solo classical Steinway D (Hamburg) recordings, in certain limited classical rep., that is.

The price paid for that kind of high frequency authenticity, however, is a pretty noisy, dirty-sounding sample. The PV Yamaha, in contrast, is very, quiet: but, again, maybe that's achieved at a price, too. Looks like the PV Steinway, like the HZP, will have some more remote microphone placements, which can make possible incredibly realistic verb, albeit very prescribed verb, because it's hard to add verb to an inherently verby sample. Better (in my experience) to start with a dry acoustic, if your game is to add exactly the kind of verb you want after the fact. I'm sure the PV Steinway will have super-dry mic options, if that's your thing.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2655965
06/24/17 02:42 AM
06/24/17 02:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,414
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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Johnlewisgrant do you recommend the PV Yamaha C7? Judging from demos the bass sounds a little weak, but maybe it feels different when playing? I'm considering the Sforzando version with the first four microphone pairs. I don't have the full Kontakt, and it's great to be able to record from within the VSTi program itself. Would you say the other four (vintage) microphone pairs give the piano an extra character?


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656030
06/24/17 11:47 AM
06/24/17 11:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 149
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bsntn99 Offline
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I had a chance to compare the PV C7 to Acousticsamples C7 for reference and can give my thoughts. The PV is a bit cleaner, a little more raw sounding, and has a very well programmed velocity curve with 12 layers. However, there is a bum note, G2, that stands out in timber from the adjacent notes and there is more variation note to note in volume and timbre than the AS C7 across the keyboard. The PV C7 is also a bit brighter out of the box. Bass is similar between the two, brightness aside.

I could not discern any difference with the authentic pedaling in the PV C7 for half or re-pedaling where both are readily discernible in the AS C7. (Edit: Looks like version 2 includes string resonance and re-pedaling - I only had a look at version 1. Sforzando and Modern Four though are still based on version 1.) Both pianos have almost no latency, 1 or 2 ms at most compared with 3-4 ms with CFX or pianoteq from when a note is triggered. So these two are among the best in this regard.

The PV C7 has better ppp playing with very quiet samples available. AS C7 is not quite as good, maybe at a pp level. Overall, the AS C7 comes across as a bit mellower and better balanced, but the PV C7 does have that rawness in the tone that is appealing. I don't think you are gaining much if you own the AS C7 already, but you can decide based on my description if there is any value. I do like what the Production Voices people are doing and will be keeping an eye on them.

Last edited by bsntn99; 06/24/17 09:00 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656044
06/24/17 12:41 PM
06/24/17 12:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,414
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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Sweden
Thank you, bsntn99, for this info. I hate it when notes are not evenly volumed, exactly what I noticed with the Waves Grand Rhapsody. I was practising that riff from Bohemian Rhapsody, after doesn't really matter to me, to me...where I'd play a Bb octave, then come up and play a Bb chord in second inversion, just below middle C.

The Bb note of the chord simply wouldn't cooperate, that is, play with the same volume, which kind of destroyed my mood, and consequently the playability of the instrument. When you buy a VSTi mostly because of the person who played the recorded piano, and because of Queen's music, a thing like this sort of wrecks it all.

I agree with you, that the Production Grand Modern will probably not add much new, that I don't already have in the AcousticSamples C7. I might rather take a look at another Fazioli, a Bechstein or a Bösendorfer instead. I look forward to seeing, hearing and reading, how the new Production Voices Steinway, will be received.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: johnlewisgrant] #2656178
06/24/17 11:10 PM
06/24/17 11:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,015
canada
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johnlewisgrant Offline
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canada
I would wait for the PV Steinway, before forking out the big bucks for the PV C7. Not that it's a poor vst. That it definitely is not, and on my lowly Kawai 100 keyboard, the bass seems to me very strong. eg...This bit of Bach (WTC 2 Fugue 16), where I used the Modern variant, with some added verb.... (can't remember which verb.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOwGpIatWR0

BTW all the other Bk 2 pf use the HZP (not very playable), not the PV C7.

But I'm hoping that Jason has upped his game (which is already at a high level) with the Steinway.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656224
06/25/17 06:38 AM
06/25/17 06:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,414
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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Sweden
The Production Grand actually sounds better to me than the recording of a real piano, from 1985, which is in a related video. Probably a Steinway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ivua8RuSSY


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656230
06/25/17 07:31 AM
06/25/17 07:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 262
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pold Offline
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I like what Production Voices is doing, and I hope they will start using Fazioli pianos soon, for sampling in my opinions they are the best ones, somehow they always end up being more realistic when you listen to them, compared to a Yamaha or a Steinway.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: TheodorN] #2656232
06/25/17 07:52 AM
06/25/17 07:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,015
canada
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johnlewisgrant Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
The Production Grand actually sounds better to me than the recording of a real piano, from 1985, which is in a related video. Probably a Steinway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ivua8RuSSY


The Tube's limited sonic capacities (128 kps AT BEST, with plenty of distortion) screw up everything. Having said that, I have that Schiff CD, and the sound (to my ears) has always been pretty weird. I think Schiff re-recorded these, actually.

The Tube ALSO distorts quite badly the sonic characteristics of any given piano vst, some more than others. The PV Yamaha seems to survive the Tube torture test pretty well. One think the PV Yammy does well, I think, is ppp to p. Smooth transition, as far as I can tell. And that's something you don't hear all that often in piano vsts.

Here's the PV Yammy around vel layers 2-32 (approx):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ykThdxMfqM

Compare, now, the same piece on the HZP, which, if memory serves, is basically a 4 layer vst:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azu1h_ZU7sg&list=PLP5BZzcdRkq0zO0dfrE3ZIGMcQTQQ9XTj&index=4

The midi file (which I don't give out) for the HZP had to be worked on very, very hard to get something approaching a ppp. It never really gets there. I confess to loving the HZP in spite of its massive issues; but lets face it, it doesn't do ppp. The PV, on the other hand? PPP is a piece of cake.

A bit apples and oranges, because they are totally different samples, but what the HZP has is high frequency realism, which (as I said here before) makes it sound like it's actually "in the hall". No need to add verb, at all. But "wet" is not on for many users, because while you can add verb to a dry sample, a wet sample can't be "unverbed," so to speak.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656272
06/25/17 11:18 AM
06/25/17 11:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,414
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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TheodorN  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,414
Sweden
Perhaps my only gripe with AcousticSamples C7, is it doesn't go down there, to ppp. I admit I haven't played much with it's velocity curve, so I can't rule out that it handles soft playing adequately. Even if it doesn't, it's still great for a lot of music. The ability to play softly, may be another reason for me to get the PV C7 for Sforzando.

There is no indication their Steinway D will be available for the Aria engine. I really appreciate PV for releasing VSTis for a free player. Besides you can record through the Sforzando player, easily. Given the horrible experience I've had with Pro Tools | First, and Ableton Live 9 Lite, that's a big plus for me. Reaper might work better, though.

If the Production Grand for Sforzando were on sale, below $100, I'd jump on it. I may even get it at $129, the usual price. I've decided I'd like to get a new piano VST every two or three months. Piano is my hobby, and spending about $50 monthly on a hobby is not much.

Last edited by TheodorN; 06/25/17 11:19 AM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656275
06/25/17 11:26 AM
06/25/17 11:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,953
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,953
Raleigh, North Carolina
And now we have a new member of the G.A.S. club.
A new GASketeer!
Welcome, friend. And hide your wallet! smile

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2657597
06/29/17 08:47 PM
06/29/17 08:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 141
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mcontraveos Offline
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Originally Posted by Cinjero


Anyone else notice the abrupt cutoff at 1:43? I was expecting at least a little residual resonance or vibration...

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2692508
11/28/17 01:48 AM
11/28/17 01:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,404
Hong Kong
N
newer player Online content
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Hong Kong
Today's new video for "Production Voices Concert Grand" to see how this Steinway is evolving.

There is some ambisonics fun plugin. The YouTube mix sound seems to be heavily tilted left on my headphones (and level indicators).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gGmoZ604J8

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2698339
12/19/17 11:38 PM
12/19/17 11:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,404
Hong Kong
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Hong Kong
Update video for "Production Voices Concert Grand" in compact running on Sforzando

Concert Grand Compact vs Production Grand Compact Virtual Pianos (Steinway D vs. C7)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMcEymozApc

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2698392
12/20/17 07:16 AM
12/20/17 07:16 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 677
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karvala Offline
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Sounds interesting; one of the VSTs I'm keen to hear proper demos of. It seems to be running a bit behind schedule, though? Meanwhile I also note that the various serious bugs with the Production Grand (Compact; will presumably be in other versions as well) have STILL not been fixed. Put those two things together, and I do wonder about Jason's ability to support a second instrument properly.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2707912
01/23/18 10:11 PM
01/23/18 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,404
Hong Kong
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Hong Kong
Update email from Production Voices Steinway D (no formatting or images below).

Hi Everyone,

Happy belated New Year!

It’s been a long time coming, but I finally got the first release of the Steinway D sampling session ready to launch.

Soon Production Voices will announce the launch for Concert Grand Compact, a Steinway D concert grand piano library available for the free Plogue sforzando. The piano library is just over 10 GB before compressing to FLAC. As the Compact name implies, it is much smaller and less taxing than the followup Kontakt version will be and the pricing will be very affordable at launch. Stay tuned for details and pricing!

With most libraries you want to be perfect before releasing, but this piano sample library is different. It will never be perfect. A piano is never perfect just as a human is never perfect. The more I deeply sampled this concert grand.. 20, 21, 22 velocities, the more mechanical noise got recorded from the 9' monster and the more it reminded me that the point of sampling is not just to capture the outward beauty of the tone, but also to capture the true nature of the instrument that pinged, clunked and clanked when notes were struck, just as it should. It reverberated the soundboard with every motion the instrument made. If you have ever recorded a voiceover, you’ll know what I am leading towards. A mouth is spitty and the tongue makes flapping sounds that you can’t hear just a few feet away. Well, stick a microphone (or 16 like we did) inside a piano's mouth and you start to hear the inner workings. So, the question was: Do you keep the noise or try to clean everything up and sterilize the sound into a “typical” piano sample sound? The answer emerged as: Leave the character but reduce the clanks of the key strikes just a bit. This noisy mammoth piano sounds warm, intimate and thumpingly mechanical with close microphones yet majestic on the distance microphones like the fine concert grand it is. What you will experience playing Concert Grand is the sound the concert pianist hears and less of what the audience hears. Watch the video demo below for to hear Concert Grand Compact in action.

Video of Concert Grand Compact vs Production Grand Compact:

https://vimeo.com/251195185/23b420c418

Concert Grand Compact is similar to Production Grand Compact, our Yamaha C7 sample library, in size and playability. The two are a great combo for any producer, performer or songwriter to have in their collection. As such, Production Voices will be launching a SFZ Piano Bundle that includes all of our piano samples libraries for sforzando at an exceptional value. More details to come in the next few days!

Sforzando Bundle Coming Soon! Get it all for one low price. Pricing to be announced!

2018 Plans:

2018 should be interesting with plans for a followup to Death Piano and maybe some ventures into the electric piano and virtual analog world. It all depends on timing and customer feedback! I may consider another big piano project if the right Fazioli, Bechenstein or Bosendorfer becomes available. Let me know if you have any leads to one of these fine instruments particularly if it has MIDI!

Many thanks to all of you who continue to support the work I do at Production Voices! It is the customer feedback that keeps me going!

Kind regards,

Jason

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2707917
01/23/18 10:30 PM
01/23/18 10:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 961
Portland, OR, USA
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Osho Offline
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Portland, OR, USA
Thanks for the update, newer player.

Originally Posted by newer player

Video of Concert Grand Compact vs Production Grand Compact:

Pointer to this video?

Thanks,
Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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