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Steinway D Concert Grand #2655822
06/23/17 11:48 AM
06/23/17 11:48 AM
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Cinjero Offline OP
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Production Voices (production grand) has announced / updated the progress @90%. With released possibly in the FALL.

Total library (all versions 24/96, 24, 16) nearing 580 gigs. (gulp) ~ 16 bit alone is 100 gig.

https://vimeo.com/222850726/6293497e54

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2655844
06/23/17 01:04 PM
06/23/17 01:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,345
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TheodorN Offline
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It sounds really nice. Recently, I got an email from PV, with an update for the GUI of the Estate Grand, which fixed the issue of the microphone sliders not appearing. I was about to answer and thank for the update, taking the opportunity to ask about the upcoming Steinway D, but now I don't need to.

I will take a serious look at this instrument from PV, when it's released, but probably a watered down version. Not willing to fork out for another SSD, but I might change my mind about that! A 50+ GB VSTi seems to be becoming the norm these days, at least among the big names.

Last edited by TheodorN; 06/23/17 01:05 PM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2655854
06/23/17 01:42 PM
06/23/17 01:42 PM
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I am afraid there are too many microphones and that means lots of (useless ? HZpiano comes to my mind) samples that bring unnecessary GB instead of max 4 mics with more velocity levels. Anyway lets wait and see, maybe it will be real good.

Last edited by slobajudge; 06/23/17 01:44 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2655871
06/23/17 03:23 PM
06/23/17 03:23 PM
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North Carolina
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How many layers would be needed?

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: slobajudge] #2655876
06/23/17 03:31 PM
06/23/17 03:31 PM
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I have the full version Yamaha, which is very, very low noise; "realistic" tone (from my subjective standpoint); many layers (forget exactly how many). Meticulous sampling. It's a Yamaha, however; so not a sample I would (myself) use for classical material--which is what I do.

If I had a criticism of the Yammy, it would be that that sample lacked a bit of "air" at the very, very highest frequencies. No more lacking in the high frequencies than any other high end sample, mind you, perhaps with the exception of the HZP, which has only 4 usable layers, but which definitely has the "air" (highest frequency tone/sound characteristics) that make some recordings made with it very comparable to many modern solo classical Steinway D (Hamburg) recordings, in certain limited classical rep., that is.

The price paid for that kind of high frequency authenticity, however, is a pretty noisy, dirty-sounding sample. The PV Yamaha, in contrast, is very, quiet: but, again, maybe that's achieved at a price, too. Looks like the PV Steinway, like the HZP, will have some more remote microphone placements, which can make possible incredibly realistic verb, albeit very prescribed verb, because it's hard to add verb to an inherently verby sample. Better (in my experience) to start with a dry acoustic, if your game is to add exactly the kind of verb you want after the fact. I'm sure the PV Steinway will have super-dry mic options, if that's your thing.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2655965
06/24/17 01:42 AM
06/24/17 01:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,345
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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Johnlewisgrant do you recommend the PV Yamaha C7? Judging from demos the bass sounds a little weak, but maybe it feels different when playing? I'm considering the Sforzando version with the first four microphone pairs. I don't have the full Kontakt, and it's great to be able to record from within the VSTi program itself. Would you say the other four (vintage) microphone pairs give the piano an extra character?


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656030
06/24/17 10:47 AM
06/24/17 10:47 AM
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I had a chance to compare the PV C7 to Acousticsamples C7 for reference and can give my thoughts. The PV is a bit cleaner, a little more raw sounding, and has a very well programmed velocity curve with 12 layers. However, there is a bum note, G2, that stands out in timber from the adjacent notes and there is more variation note to note in volume and timbre than the AS C7 across the keyboard. The PV C7 is also a bit brighter out of the box. Bass is similar between the two, brightness aside.

I could not discern any difference with the authentic pedaling in the PV C7 for half or re-pedaling where both are readily discernible in the AS C7. (Edit: Looks like version 2 includes string resonance and re-pedaling - I only had a look at version 1. Sforzando and Modern Four though are still based on version 1.) Both pianos have almost no latency, 1 or 2 ms at most compared with 3-4 ms with CFX or pianoteq from when a note is triggered. So these two are among the best in this regard.

The PV C7 has better ppp playing with very quiet samples available. AS C7 is not quite as good, maybe at a pp level. Overall, the AS C7 comes across as a bit mellower and better balanced, but the PV C7 does have that rawness in the tone that is appealing. I don't think you are gaining much if you own the AS C7 already, but you can decide based on my description if there is any value. I do like what the Production Voices people are doing and will be keeping an eye on them.

Last edited by bsntn99; 06/24/17 08:00 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656044
06/24/17 11:41 AM
06/24/17 11:41 AM
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TheodorN Offline
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Thank you, bsntn99, for this info. I hate it when notes are not evenly volumed, exactly what I noticed with the Waves Grand Rhapsody. I was practising that riff from Bohemian Rhapsody, after doesn't really matter to me, to me...where I'd play a Bb octave, then come up and play a Bb chord in second inversion, just below middle C.

The Bb note of the chord simply wouldn't cooperate, that is, play with the same volume, which kind of destroyed my mood, and consequently the playability of the instrument. When you buy a VSTi mostly because of the person who played the recorded piano, and because of Queen's music, a thing like this sort of wrecks it all.

I agree with you, that the Production Grand Modern will probably not add much new, that I don't already have in the AcousticSamples C7. I might rather take a look at another Fazioli, a Bechstein or a Bösendorfer instead. I look forward to seeing, hearing and reading, how the new Production Voices Steinway, will be received.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: johnlewisgrant] #2656178
06/24/17 10:10 PM
06/24/17 10:10 PM
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I would wait for the PV Steinway, before forking out the big bucks for the PV C7. Not that it's a poor vst. That it definitely is not, and on my lowly Kawai 100 keyboard, the bass seems to me very strong. eg...This bit of Bach (WTC 2 Fugue 16), where I used the Modern variant, with some added verb.... (can't remember which verb.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOwGpIatWR0

BTW all the other Bk 2 pf use the HZP (not very playable), not the PV C7.

But I'm hoping that Jason has upped his game (which is already at a high level) with the Steinway.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656224
06/25/17 05:38 AM
06/25/17 05:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
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TheodorN Offline
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The Production Grand actually sounds better to me than the recording of a real piano, from 1985, which is in a related video. Probably a Steinway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ivua8RuSSY


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656230
06/25/17 06:31 AM
06/25/17 06:31 AM
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I like what Production Voices is doing, and I hope they will start using Fazioli pianos soon, for sampling in my opinions they are the best ones, somehow they always end up being more realistic when you listen to them, compared to a Yamaha or a Steinway.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: TheodorN] #2656232
06/25/17 06:52 AM
06/25/17 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
The Production Grand actually sounds better to me than the recording of a real piano, from 1985, which is in a related video. Probably a Steinway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ivua8RuSSY


The Tube's limited sonic capacities (128 kps AT BEST, with plenty of distortion) screw up everything. Having said that, I have that Schiff CD, and the sound (to my ears) has always been pretty weird. I think Schiff re-recorded these, actually.

The Tube ALSO distorts quite badly the sonic characteristics of any given piano vst, some more than others. The PV Yamaha seems to survive the Tube torture test pretty well. One think the PV Yammy does well, I think, is ppp to p. Smooth transition, as far as I can tell. And that's something you don't hear all that often in piano vsts.

Here's the PV Yammy around vel layers 2-32 (approx):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ykThdxMfqM

Compare, now, the same piece on the HZP, which, if memory serves, is basically a 4 layer vst:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azu1h_ZU7sg&list=PLP5BZzcdRkq0zO0dfrE3ZIGMcQTQQ9XTj&index=4

The midi file (which I don't give out) for the HZP had to be worked on very, very hard to get something approaching a ppp. It never really gets there. I confess to loving the HZP in spite of its massive issues; but lets face it, it doesn't do ppp. The PV, on the other hand? PPP is a piece of cake.

A bit apples and oranges, because they are totally different samples, but what the HZP has is high frequency realism, which (as I said here before) makes it sound like it's actually "in the hall". No need to add verb, at all. But "wet" is not on for many users, because while you can add verb to a dry sample, a wet sample can't be "unverbed," so to speak.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656272
06/25/17 10:18 AM
06/25/17 10:18 AM
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Perhaps my only gripe with AcousticSamples C7, is it doesn't go down there, to ppp. I admit I haven't played much with it's velocity curve, so I can't rule out that it handles soft playing adequately. Even if it doesn't, it's still great for a lot of music. The ability to play softly, may be another reason for me to get the PV C7 for Sforzando.

There is no indication their Steinway D will be available for the Aria engine. I really appreciate PV for releasing VSTis for a free player. Besides you can record through the Sforzando player, easily. Given the horrible experience I've had with Pro Tools | First, and Ableton Live 9 Lite, that's a big plus for me. Reaper might work better, though.

If the Production Grand for Sforzando were on sale, below $100, I'd jump on it. I may even get it at $129, the usual price. I've decided I'd like to get a new piano VST every two or three months. Piano is my hobby, and spending about $50 monthly on a hobby is not much.

Last edited by TheodorN; 06/25/17 10:19 AM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2656275
06/25/17 10:26 AM
06/25/17 10:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
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North Carolina
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And now we have a new member of the G.A.S. club.
A new GASketeer!
Welcome, friend. And hide your wallet! smile

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2657597
06/29/17 07:47 PM
06/29/17 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cinjero


Anyone else notice the abrupt cutoff at 1:43? I was expecting at least a little residual resonance or vibration...

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2692508
11/28/17 12:48 AM
11/28/17 12:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
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Today's new video for "Production Voices Concert Grand" to see how this Steinway is evolving.

There is some ambisonics fun plugin. The YouTube mix sound seems to be heavily tilted left on my headphones (and level indicators).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gGmoZ604J8

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2698339
12/19/17 10:38 PM
12/19/17 10:38 PM
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Update video for "Production Voices Concert Grand" in compact running on Sforzando

Concert Grand Compact vs Production Grand Compact Virtual Pianos (Steinway D vs. C7)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMcEymozApc

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2698392
12/20/17 06:16 AM
12/20/17 06:16 AM
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Sounds interesting; one of the VSTs I'm keen to hear proper demos of. It seems to be running a bit behind schedule, though? Meanwhile I also note that the various serious bugs with the Production Grand (Compact; will presumably be in other versions as well) have STILL not been fixed. Put those two things together, and I do wonder about Jason's ability to support a second instrument properly.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2707912
01/23/18 09:11 PM
01/23/18 09:11 PM
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Update email from Production Voices Steinway D (no formatting or images below).

Hi Everyone,

Happy belated New Year!

It’s been a long time coming, but I finally got the first release of the Steinway D sampling session ready to launch.

Soon Production Voices will announce the launch for Concert Grand Compact, a Steinway D concert grand piano library available for the free Plogue sforzando. The piano library is just over 10 GB before compressing to FLAC. As the Compact name implies, it is much smaller and less taxing than the followup Kontakt version will be and the pricing will be very affordable at launch. Stay tuned for details and pricing!

With most libraries you want to be perfect before releasing, but this piano sample library is different. It will never be perfect. A piano is never perfect just as a human is never perfect. The more I deeply sampled this concert grand.. 20, 21, 22 velocities, the more mechanical noise got recorded from the 9' monster and the more it reminded me that the point of sampling is not just to capture the outward beauty of the tone, but also to capture the true nature of the instrument that pinged, clunked and clanked when notes were struck, just as it should. It reverberated the soundboard with every motion the instrument made. If you have ever recorded a voiceover, you’ll know what I am leading towards. A mouth is spitty and the tongue makes flapping sounds that you can’t hear just a few feet away. Well, stick a microphone (or 16 like we did) inside a piano's mouth and you start to hear the inner workings. So, the question was: Do you keep the noise or try to clean everything up and sterilize the sound into a “typical” piano sample sound? The answer emerged as: Leave the character but reduce the clanks of the key strikes just a bit. This noisy mammoth piano sounds warm, intimate and thumpingly mechanical with close microphones yet majestic on the distance microphones like the fine concert grand it is. What you will experience playing Concert Grand is the sound the concert pianist hears and less of what the audience hears. Watch the video demo below for to hear Concert Grand Compact in action.

Video of Concert Grand Compact vs Production Grand Compact:

https://vimeo.com/251195185/23b420c418

Concert Grand Compact is similar to Production Grand Compact, our Yamaha C7 sample library, in size and playability. The two are a great combo for any producer, performer or songwriter to have in their collection. As such, Production Voices will be launching a SFZ Piano Bundle that includes all of our piano samples libraries for sforzando at an exceptional value. More details to come in the next few days!

Sforzando Bundle Coming Soon! Get it all for one low price. Pricing to be announced!

2018 Plans:

2018 should be interesting with plans for a followup to Death Piano and maybe some ventures into the electric piano and virtual analog world. It all depends on timing and customer feedback! I may consider another big piano project if the right Fazioli, Bechenstein or Bosendorfer becomes available. Let me know if you have any leads to one of these fine instruments particularly if it has MIDI!

Many thanks to all of you who continue to support the work I do at Production Voices! It is the customer feedback that keeps me going!

Kind regards,

Jason

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2707917
01/23/18 09:30 PM
01/23/18 09:30 PM
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Osho Offline
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Thanks for the update, newer player.

Originally Posted by newer player

Video of Concert Grand Compact vs Production Grand Compact:

Pointer to this video?

Thanks,
Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Osho] #2707921
01/23/18 09:37 PM
01/23/18 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho
Pointer to this video?


Vimeo link for 8:22 video added. I think it is the same 8:22 Youtube video linked above. . .

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2707981
01/24/18 05:15 AM
01/24/18 05:15 AM
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Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Online content
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Both the compact pianos sound great.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708053
01/24/18 11:24 AM
01/24/18 11:24 AM
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Osho Offline
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Both sounds great - looking forward to full Steinway D - any version on pricing for that?

THanks,
Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708160
01/24/18 04:43 PM
01/24/18 04:43 PM
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The left right stereo spread is 'jarring'; what perspective is it?

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708224
01/24/18 07:48 PM
01/24/18 07:48 PM
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Yup.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708226
01/24/18 08:03 PM
01/24/18 08:03 PM
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It's odd because the Ambisonics demo video from last month had some odd left and right issues. Seems more like a youtube video production issue vs. VI issue but not sure...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-HdGOwS-1U


Last edited by newer player; 01/24/18 08:06 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708370
01/25/18 11:02 AM
01/25/18 11:02 AM
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https://www.productionvoices.com/product/concert-grand-compact/
What is the price? $19 ???
Is it any limited version of this virtual piano?
Which version of Steinway D was sampled, German or American?

Last edited by rychubil; 01/25/18 11:17 AM.

Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708377
01/25/18 11:31 AM
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$19 intro. One mic. Does not require Kontakt. Upgradable to full version (when available).

Concert Grand Compact is a high-quality piano sample library for the FREE Plogue sforzando sampled from a Steinway D concert grand piano in a world-class recording studio. Concert Grand Compact contains samples from the larger Concert Grand (soon to be released) without the need for the Kontakt sampler.

Concert Grand Compact takes arguably the best single microphone perspective from Concert Grand, our 1.3 TB Steinway D piano library, and places it in the Plogue sforzando player for a highly compact, fast loading amazing sounding virtual instrument piano that is easy to use and inspiring to play!

Description
9′ Concert Grand Piano in your computer!
Over 10 GB*
Format: FREE Plogue sforzando!
Delivered Immediately by Download

Concert Grand Compact Features:
Recorded with Neumann “Golden” M149 tube mics just outside the piano lid
24 bit 96k source samples reduced to 16 bit 44.1k using Goodhertz conversion
Round-robin pedal noise samples with normal and loud settings
Sampled key up mechanical noises from the actual keyboard action
Sympathetic Resonance with on/off and volume controls
Sostenuto pedaling
Recorded at world-Class Toronto studio through classic Neve console
Burl Mothership boutique-quality A/D converters used
Premium API microphone preamps used
12 – 15* velocities pedal up (selected from over 20 sampled velocities)
12 – 14* velocities pedal down (selected from over 20 sampled velocities)
8* velocities release samples (selected from 16 sampled velocities)
Ultrafast loading
Extremely memory efficient thanks to lossless FLAC compression

Digital download delivery: Immediately after purchase, download links are provided.
The files can be expanded using any ZIP utility. Mac users can simply double click the downloaded file.

System Requirements:
Requires 64 bit version of Plogue sforzando available HERE for free.
Mac OSX 10.7 or greater or PC with a 64 bit version of Windows
2 GB of free hard drive space. 8 GB RAM. Fast 7200 RPM hard drive or a solid state drive.
Solid State Drive or 7200rpm Hard Drive recommended for best performance.
*Note about file size: Concert Grand Compact samples are provided in FLAC format. FLAC is a loss-less file format meaning that it will sound exactly like the uncompressed WAV source files from the sampling session but take up less than half the disk space with no audio quality degradation. Concert Grand Compact source sample size before compression is over 10 GB! The digital delivery size is just about 3 GB with no loss in quality. * Individual note velocities per note may vary slightly.

Concert Grand Compact User Manual:
https://www.productionvoices.com/wp...oncert-Grand-Compact-SFZ-User-Manual.pdf

Upgradeable to the full version of Concert Grand:
Concert Grand Compact is upgradable to the full version of Concert Grand (when available), should you purchase Native Instruments Kontakt at a later time. If you are a Concert Grand Compact registered user wishing to upgrade to the full Concert Grand (not yet available), please contact support and request the upgrade.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708380
01/25/18 11:37 AM
01/25/18 11:37 AM
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I understood, that is basic version of this VST?
How about version of the piano, American or German?


Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2708384
01/25/18 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player


Upgradeable to the full version of Concert Grand:
Concert Grand Compact is upgradable to the full version of Concert Grand (when available), should you purchase Native Instruments Kontakt at a later time. If you are a Concert Grand Compact registered user wishing to upgrade to the full Concert Grand (not yet available), please contact support and request the upgrade.


Will the full version use sforzando or some other sofware? What is Kontakt and what does is have to do with your Concert Grand Samples? Thanks.

God Bless,
David


Kawai MP-11SE
Mac mini 2018 /Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-30 Completed
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708388
01/25/18 11:57 AM
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I already got info from Production Voices Support, that is an American version of Steinway D.
Shame, I want a German.

Last edited by rychubil; 01/25/18 12:00 PM.

Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: David B] #2708426
01/25/18 02:18 PM
01/25/18 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by newer player


Upgradeable to the full version of Concert Grand:
Concert Grand Compact is upgradable to the full version of Concert Grand (when available), should you purchase Native Instruments Kontakt at a later time. If you are a Concert Grand Compact registered user wishing to upgrade to the full Concert Grand (not yet available), please contact support and request the upgrade.


Will the full version use sforzando or some other sofware? What is Kontakt and what does is have to do with your Concert Grand Samples? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

No, obviously full version use Native instruments Kontakt program. NI Kontakt is a sampler and home for lots of sample libraries. Through NI Kontakt you can load and play piano and lots of other instruments. Kontakt is a industry standard for sample libraries. Unfortunately you must buy it separately from instrument.

Last edited by slobajudge; 01/25/18 02:23 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: slobajudge] #2708475
01/25/18 04:23 PM
01/25/18 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Originally Posted by David B


Will the full version use sforzando or some other software? What is Kontakt and what does is have to do with your Concert Grand Samples? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

No, obviously full version use Native instruments Kontakt program.


Why is it obvious? There is a tendency for some major developers to circumvent Kontakt with their own platform. Sample Modelling (or a faction thereof) is a good example of this with their SWAM engine. The sfortzando player is somewhat similar to the Garritan CFX platform - indeed the cfx can be loaded into either player.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: toddy] #2708483
01/25/18 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by toddy
[ The sfortzando player is somewhat similar to the Garritan CFX platform - indeed the cfx can be loaded into either player.


Indeed, they're both based on Plogue.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: toddy] #2708485
01/25/18 04:49 PM
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Osho Offline
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Originally Posted by David B


Will the full version use sforzando or some other software? What is Kontakt and what does is have to do with your Concert Grand Samples? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

No, obviously full version use Native instruments Kontakt program.


Why is it obvious?


Because it says so on the page:

https://www.productionvoices.com/product/concert-grand-compact/

Quote

Upgradeable to the full version of Concert Grand:
Concert Grand Compact is upgradable to the full version of Concert Grand (when available), should you purchase Native Instruments Kontakt at a later time. If you are a Concert Grand Compact registered user wishing to upgrade to the full Concert Grand (not yet available), please contact support and request the upgrade.

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Osho] #2708491
01/25/18 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho


Because it says so on the page:



Ahh well. That is obvious enough!


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708507
01/25/18 05:41 PM
01/25/18 05:41 PM
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Post from another forum. Not sure of what the price will be at the official public launch.

"I am very excited to announce the release of Concert Grand Compact to you, our customers and subscribers ahead of the official public launch! I couldn't have made this Steinway D piano sample library without your input, feedback and support. So, what better way to thank you than to give you the best pricing and first access to Concert Grand Compact!
Starting today, Thursday January 25th, the sale begins. I will update the price each day. Hurry to get the best pricing early in the sale.

7 Day Sale:
Day 1: $19
Day 2: $29
Day 3: $29
Day 4: $34
Day 5: $39
Day 6: $44
Day 7: $49

Concert Grand Compact retails for $99. This is an excellent opportunity to save up to 80% if you get it early."

In any event, I already bought it and played a bit with it this morning. Compared to the Production Grand Compact, the sound is not as bright (no surprise), more full bodied and warm, especially in the lower registers. The hammer attack is discernible on each note whereas it is not as noticeable with PGC. I would say the hammer attack is a smidge more noticeable than the Grandeur or Vintage D. Overall, the library is very clear and unprocessed sounding.

Note to note timbre is very even across the entire range with nothing standing out. Appears this piano was is good condition and well set up. PGC had a number of notes that stood out with artifacts either due to hammer wear or other noises.

I did not come across any of the same issues with notes dropping out or sympathetic resonance sticking as with PGC (note Jason has an updated script in process which I tested that addresses these in PGC). The only issue I found was with trills or repetitions with the sustain pedal down, there is a significant release tail when you release the pedal that should not be there. This should be easily fixable in the script.

Overall, I think prefer the Concert Grand Compact over PGC. I hope to play around more tonight and compare it to some of my other libraries.

Last edited by bsntn99; 01/25/18 05:42 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708518
01/25/18 06:03 PM
01/25/18 06:03 PM
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Thanks bsntn99 - that was enough of a kick to get me to drop 19$.

Downloading now - only 2.7GB

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708526
01/25/18 06:29 PM
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I've downloaded it as well; not time to install it yet, but will try to do so later, or else tomorrow. I'm a bit concerned with all the messages warning us about imperfect "real" piano sounds and piano noises; I'm bracing myself for a rather distant and noisy sound, but we'll see!


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708532
01/25/18 06:49 PM
01/25/18 06:49 PM
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Joined the club. Won't have time to download and install until next week probably, and have sore eczema hands right now, so I can hardly play. I'm not really looking for a new piano VST, but because of this low starting price I pulled the trigger, out of curiosity mostly.

I like playing with those lightweight VSTis, even more than the big ones, because of the fast loading time, yet quite a lot of tweaking possibilities, especially in the case of the Production Voices libraries. Reaper gives me the chance to add EQ, so the minimal interface of Sforzando is not a big problem.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708554
01/25/18 07:40 PM
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I downloaded it as well for curiosity wink I install tomorrow hopefully


Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708557
01/25/18 07:48 PM
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ca ching... very nice, I'm sure the full version will be even more impressive.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708562
01/25/18 07:58 PM
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Okay, rapid first impressions based on 30 minutes playing. It's another Production Voices piano, and it sounds like another Production Voices piano. Whether or not you think that's a good thing will depend on your opinion of their previous products. It has far more common in with the Production Grand Compact (and Yamaha C7 they did) than any other Steinway D sample I have. That's not to say it doesn't sound like a Steinway D - it clearly does and that's good - but the style of recording is the dominant feature. It's distant, which is partly because it's the outside mic perspective of course, but partly also the house style judging from their other instruments.

The good:-
(1) It sounds like a Steinway D.
(2) There is, always with their instruments, good clarity of individual tones i.e. minimal smudging; this and the distinctive timbre is sign of a good attack sample.
(3) It more or less works out of the box without any *huge* flaws (but see below).

The bad:-
(1) It sounds distant and veiled; it feels much more like playing a recording of a piano than playing an actual piano.
(2) The upper register is hugely underpowered; more generally there are significant balance issues across the keyboard which undermine dynamic control and clarity. Some areas are audibly louder than others.
(3) There seems to be an issue with pedal on/off samples, such that when releasing pedal and keys more or less simultaneously, you get a sudden increase in volume (presumably when the pedal off release samples kick in, and indicating that they are significantly louder for the same velocity layers, which is a significant flaw. Dialling down the release samples seems to help a bit.

I'll give more detailed impressions when I've had time to play it a lot more, but that's the initial impression. £13.79 (which is what I paid) is less than I've paid for a pizza in the past, so I can't complain. If I'd spent $99 on it, I wouldn't be too happy.

If you're thinking of buying it, ask yourself if you like their previous offerings. If you do, and you like a Steinway D sound, you'll probably like this. If you don't, then you probably won't.

Last edited by karvala; 01/25/18 07:59 PM.

Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: karvala] #2708567
01/25/18 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by karvala

£13.79 (which is what I paid) is less than I've paid for a pizza in the past, so I can't complain.

laugh laugh laugh
Absolutely right! Me too, I paid £13.79, less than today's shopping in The Morrisons wink
...but !!!
I read on email from PV, that this version expiry on 1st February 2018 frown

Last edited by rychubil; 01/25/18 08:55 PM.

Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708578
01/25/18 08:52 PM
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Hopefully, more reviews will come in tonight. $19 is ridiculously cheap, but if I won't use it? ...


Roland FP-90; Yamaha MX49; Pianoteq 5 + most add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X; Focusrite Saffire 2i2; For performing: Yamaha PSR-S970; FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708583
01/25/18 09:38 PM
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Probably a silly question, but I'm guessing I can get this and the free player and use it similar to Pianoteq?


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708587
01/25/18 09:57 PM
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The player is free, so you are only playing $19 today for the Concert Grand Compact, that's it. Now Pianoteq has way more adjustability, but is a lot more expensive.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708618
01/26/18 12:16 AM
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Quick first impression - generally very playable and responsive. Nice value @ 19$ if you would like to sample a well-recorded Steinway D.

Concert Grand Compact mid-mics (M149) respond a bit like the Garritan CFX with close-mics only (M49/KM184). Concert Grand Compact sounds a bit more distant (probably due to outside placement) and a bit more rogue. The pianos, prep, recording and room are rather different (obviously, I suppose).

Concert Grand Compact loads quickly and seems to run efficiently (say 44.1khz with a buffer of 48 on my mid-tier laptop). Unselecting the yellow lights under "key noise", "pedal noise" etc. (Controls tab) might boost performance if you have dropouts.

I tested with two good headphones and some consumer monitors/with a sub. Tomorrow, I will try a bit of reverb etc. in Reaper DAW.

Technical note - Concert Grand Compact has 96khz recordings downsampled to 44.1khz. Sforzando Free might have a minor quirk so running sample rate at 44.1khz might provide best sound quality / lowest noise.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708656
01/26/18 03:03 AM
01/26/18 03:03 AM
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I took the plunge.

I don't like it. There's some seriously jarring velocity switching going on; one or two are utterly bizarre in soft playing.

No half pedal so I just turned the noises down.

Latency. Small but certainly very noticeable and I felt quite disconnected from it. I'm no VST veteran but I do have PianoTeq, which tonally I have come to truly hate. But it just worked utterly intuitively from the outset and the sense of connection is entirely comparable to playing a DP's native sounds. I use a Macbook Pro, 8GB RAM with SSD. So I can't imagine the computer is the issue. I used all their recommended settings.

The actual sound of the piano is nice although it is a bit brighter than I expected it to be. I think the sustain and resonances are rather good but I'll never fire it up again due mainly to the latency.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: EssBrace] #2708731
01/26/18 04:31 AM
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What does it mean "Expires - 1 February 2018"?
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/mIrr3ZP


Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Rychubil] #2708738
01/26/18 05:15 AM
01/26/18 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rychubil
What does it mean "Expires - 1 February 2018"?
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/mIrr3ZP


The file will no longer be available for download after that date.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708742
01/26/18 05:31 AM
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Thanks toddy smile


Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2708745
01/26/18 06:11 AM
01/26/18 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by karvala
(3) There seems to be an issue with pedal on/off samples, such that when releasing pedal and keys more or less simultaneously, you get a sudden increase in volume (presumably when the pedal off release samples kick in, and indicating that they are significantly louder for the same velocity layers, which is a significant flaw. Dialling down the release samples seems to help a bit.

This is exactly what happens with PV Kawai Estate Grand for Sforzando, and I've talked about it before. A bit irritating, that twirp which barks at you when releasing pedal and keys. This does not happen in the Kontakt versions of PV Studio Grand LE, and not in Prod. Grand 2 Gold, which leads me to conclude this is a Sforzando related problem, in the PV scripting.

Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Probably a silly question, but I'm guessing I can get this and the free player and use it similar to Pianoteq?

The similarity is also that you can load MIDI files into Sforzando, and record as audio (not MIDI like in Pianoteq) what you play. Apart from Pianoteq, Sforzando libraries and Garritan CFX, which is based on the same Aria engine as Sforzando, are the only VSTis I know of, in which you can record audio and play MIDI files.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: EssBrace] #2708802
01/26/18 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
There's some seriously jarring velocity switching going on; one or two are utterly bizarre in soft playing.

The actual sound of the piano is nice although it is a bit brighter than I expected it to be. I think the sustain and resonances are rather good


I also thought the overall sound was good. I didn't find it quite so jarring but hear a bit of mic phasing which is tough to address with only a mic pair just outside the piano. Plus there are no ambient mics to mix in some room smoothness. I will run this in my DAW and add some reverb or room effects and see how that helps...

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Latency. Small but certainly very noticeable and I felt quite disconnected from it. I'm no VST veteran but I do have PianoTeq, which tonally I have come to truly hate. But it just worked utterly intuitively from the outset and the sense of connection is entirely comparable to playing a DP's native sounds. I use a Macbook Pro, 8GB RAM with SSD. So I can't imagine the computer is the issue. I used all their recommended settings.


Funny, I thought the latency performance was quite good and aided by very little dead space at the beginning of the samples.

The recommended settings are rubbish. Please open Sforzando again, click on TOOLS>PREFERENCES.

-- Set "sample rate" to 44.100KHz

-- Set "buffer size" as low as you can get

--Click OK

** You may need to exit Sforzando a few times to reset and lower "buffer size". After a few tries I got it to 48 on a good but not great laptop.

Last edited by newer player; 01/26/18 10:12 AM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2708804
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Originally Posted by newer player
Funny, I thought the latency performance was quite good and aided by very little dead space at the beginning of the samples.

The recommended settings are rubbish. Please open Sforzando again, click on TOOLS>PREFERENCES.

-- Set "sample rate" to 44.100KHz

-- Set "buffer size" as low as you can get

--Click OK

** You may need to exit Sforzando a few times to reset and lower "buffer size". After a few tries I got it to 48 on a good but not great laptop.


Okay, many thanks. I'll have a go. My experience with software instruments is almost non-existent.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708815
01/26/18 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Latency. Small but certainly very noticeable and I felt quite disconnected from it. I'm no VST veteran but I do have PianoTeq, which tonally I have come to truly hate. But it just worked utterly intuitively from the outset and the sense of connection is entirely comparable to playing a DP's native sounds. I use a Macbook Pro, 8GB RAM with SSD. So I can't imagine the computer is the issue. I used all their recommended settings.


Funny, I thought the latency performance was quite good and aided by very little dead space at the beginning of the samples.


Depends on which note, and how hard you're playing it. C#2 played forte (but not p or ff) is way behind its neighbours. That is disconcerting and there are other slight inconsistencies - some characterful, others annoying. Apart that, it's got a nice presence this piano, and it is a good companion to the Yamaha C7. Good for €15.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: EssBrace] #2708819
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Okay, many thanks. I'll have a go. My experience with software instruments is almost non-existent.


EssBrace - ask any questions here or feel free to PM me. Sforzando is good software and easy to use.

Jason incorporated some nice "effects" in the player that are worth checking out. Just click on "snapshot" and pick something like "Classical Recital". (Update to latest Sforzando player if they don't work). Won't do any more tweaking until / unless Jason sends some script updates.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708824
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Does Sforzando work with other VSTs?


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Beakybird] #2708830
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Originally Posted by Beakybird
Does Sforzando work with other VSTs?

What do you mean ?

Sforzando is a VST, and the DAW can load many VST, but this is a characteristic of the DAW, not Sforzando which won’t be aware of the other VSTs.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708835
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That's correct, but just to be clear in case the meaning of the question was slightly different, Sforzando can load some other software pianos - essentially anything in aria format. Some old soundfont-based pianos (going back to the early 2000s) can also be converted and used in it. So, for example, the Garritan CFX actually works fine in it, because it's also based on Plogue's aria player. By contrast, you can't load anything that uses UVI Workstation or Kontakt Player, because they're in a different format.

Last edited by karvala; 01/26/18 11:35 AM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2708913
01/26/18 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Okay, many thanks. I'll have a go. My experience with software instruments is almost non-existent.


EssBrace - ask any questions here or feel free to PM me. Sforzando is good software and easy to use.

Jason incorporated some nice "effects" in the player that are worth checking out. Just click on "snapshot" and pick something like "Classical Recital". (Update to latest Sforzando player if they don't work). Won't do any more tweaking until / unless Jason sends some script updates.


Thank you very much for your kind offer! I will keep trying with it. The overall timbre of the piano and its sustain are great. I can see how the software route can be so beguiling because the sense of grandeur and realism with a bigger sample set (compared to a hardware DP) is easily appreciated.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2709304
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I downloaded sforzando and made everything like manual described and nothing. No idea what to do frown
Anyone can describe me what should I do step by step?

Last edited by Rychubil; 01/27/18 07:47 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2709317
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Rychubil,

There are install steps for Mac & Windows. I can't remember the exact procedure but it took 5 minutes of tinkering so hope this helps

First, this Sforzando guide might help you a bit:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/sforzando/sforzando_guide_1.621.pdf

In the Sforzando, you might need to go to TOOLS>PREFERENCES. There you need to select Input device etc. Once you set those, click OK and exit Sforzando. Open Sforzando and make sure your choices stuck. If not reenter them and repeat this process.

Now open Sforzando, in the top left corner there is a drop-down labeled instrument. If you click that you should be able to select "Concert Grand Compact".

> If it does not show up, then you can simply open your "file explorer" in Windows or Mac, and follow step 5 below (make sure you unzipped "concert grand" folder as noted in step 2 below). Sometimes Sforzando does not let you drag and drop that file into Sforzando; try relaunching Sforzando or restarting your computer.

_____________________
https://www.productionvoices.com/wp...oncert-Grand-Compact-SFZ-User-Manual.pdf

Installing Concert Grand Compact for sforzando

Installation of Concert Grand Compact for sforzando is fairly straightforward:

1. Download and install sforzando: http://www.plogue.com/products/sforzando/

2. Download Concert Grand Compact for sforzando and unzip.

3. Place the “Concert Grand Compact for sforzando” folder on the drive that you wish to run it from. Any fast hard drive will work. If available, we recommend an SSD solid state drive for best performance.

4. Launch sforzando.

5. Drag the “Concert Grand Compact.bank.xml” file from within the “Concert Grand Compact for sforzando” folder onto sforzando. This registers your purchase with sforzando and puts the presets into sforzando.
_____________________

If you still have trouble, please note what equipment you are using (e.g. keyboard, interface, cable type, computer brand, version of Windows/OSX. Do you have any other VIs running?

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2709325
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Thank you newer player for very detailed explanation. Much appreciated smile
When I back home tomorrow, I do everything again exactly like you advised. Probably I missed something while setting of sforzando.

P.S. Currently I don't have any other VSTs on my computer.

Last edited by Rychubil; 01/27/18 10:25 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Rychubil] #2709494
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I tried to do as if I were describing both manually and nothing. Sforzando shows me information about the demo version, Compact grand is still invisible for sforzando - waste of time and money for me.
I give up frown

Last edited by Rychubil; 01/28/18 04:06 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Rychubil] #2709519
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
I tried to do as if I were describing both manually and nothing. Sforzando shows me information about the demo version, Compact grand is still invisible for sforzando - waste of time and money. I'm letting go this Compact grand and I do not recommend!


Have you unzipped the files and installed the sfz player? If so, all you need to do now is drag the (unzipped) Concert Grand Compact bank.xml file from its location (wherever you downloaded and unzipped it to) to the surface of the player (it actually says 'drop a supported file to start').

When you do this, you get a notice saying 'the piano is installed and registered' or some similar message. And that's it. You can even do this off line (I've just done it with my offline music computer).

It's actually one of the easiest install and registration systems - easier by far than Native Instruments and EWQL which can be a great big pain in the butt.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2709534
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OMG! I downloaded chipsounds file instead sforzando - my silly mistake! Sorry for all mess.
I already instaled sforzando and Compact Grand runs but I have a big latency. What can I do with it?


Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Rychubil] #2709537
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Big latency with what configuration ?
ASIO mode ?
Buffer size ?
Sample rate ?

On a PC, you must have an ASIO driver (given with the sound card, or else ASIO4ALL), I am ok with 128 samples per buffer at 44.1kHz.

Note, some people are more sensitive about the latency than I am.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 01/28/18 04:55 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2709542
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Tools -> Preferences, Audio Device API is probably ASIO, and Audio Device something like Roland Quad Capture, or however it identifies itself, if you've set your Roland up properly.

Sample Rate, try 44100 Hz, can raise it if you get the latency down, and Buffer Size 128. May depend on your computer's specifiactions, if they're low, increase the buffer size, but that raises the latency.

On another note - no pun intended - has anyone noticed that the Concert Grand Compact goes silent when switching between presets?

Last edited by TheodorN; 01/28/18 05:02 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Frédéric L] #2709544
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Big latency with what configuration ?
ASIO mode ?
Buffer size ?
Sample rate ?


Dell Vostro 3460: i5, 2.50GHz, 8RAM, SSD
1. I had different Asio than my Roland Quad Capture - now is ok smile
2. Buffer size: 882 - I can't change it. How can I set a lower size?
3. Sample rate: 44100

Thank you very much guys for your quick help smile

Last edited by Rychubil; 01/28/18 05:06 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2709548
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882 at 44khz is too high. Are you using an ASIO driver? If you use ASIO4ALL, you should be able to reduce the sample buffer in its interface window. 128 sample buffer should be acceptable in terms of latency. But try to go as low as possible.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2709549
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Can you choose Asio under Audio Device API?


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2709550
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Normally, from the virtual piano (in standalone mode), or the DAW (VST mode), you have an « ASIO configuration option », or something like this which opens the configuration panel of your card, then you can change the buffer size. 882 is huge !!


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: TheodorN] #2709552
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
Can you choose Asio under Audio Device API?

Yes but I already change it for ASIO Roland Quad Capture which is my soundcard and I get 256 but still I can't change it to lower size.

Originally Posted by Frédéric L
you have an « ASIO configuration option », or something like this which opens the configuration panel of your card, then you can change the buffer size. 882 is huge !!

There is but available option is 256 only.

Last edited by Rychubil; 01/28/18 05:18 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2709558
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Just to make sure we understand each other, there are two settings in Tools - Preferences.

1. Audio Device API
2. Audio Device

The first, Audio Device API is the Application Programming Interface, sort of the driver. In my case (Focusrite Scarlett 2i4) it's only ASIO. In your case, it could be ASIO Roland Quad Capture.

The second, Audio Device, is the hardware you're using, and that's where you should be able to choose your Roland audio card, as the hardware.

So you must make the right choices in both settings drop-down lists, first the software/driver, then the hardware.

256 buffer size might be something you could live with, but you should be able to get at least to 128. Check if you have set the Roland audio interface up correctly, and refer to the manual or a Roland forum/support site for that. I don't have a Roland card, but someone here might.

Last edited by TheodorN; 01/28/18 05:30 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: TheodorN] #2709559
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
Just to make sure we understand each other, there are two settings in Tools - Preferences.
1. Audio Device API
2. Audio Device


Yes, you right!
1. ASIO
2. QUAD-CAPTURE

Fortunately latency gone and hopefuly I can use that number (256) without problems - we will see wink

Last edited by Rychubil; 01/28/18 05:44 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2710811
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Three quick audio uploads from Latvia using Concert Grand...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mus...t-20.html#post13115613&postcount=598

Last edited by newer player; 02/01/18 10:40 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2710877
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Nice demos, I don't think the PV Steinway D is mind-blowing, but it's not bad. With the price up to $39, if I were looking for my first piano VST, I would save up for something in the $100-$150 range, which could include the Garritan CFX, depending on available offers.

The PV Steinway D Concert Grand might be enough for many pianists, I mean the sound is good, and it loads fast. Personally, I like to have many mic perspectives in virtual instruments, better sound han the internal piano voices of my digital instrument, and having them respond like a normal piano to my playing.

If they don't sound better, or only a little bit better than my digital piano, I can just as well play the internal piano voices. Though it's nice to have some variety, not always be stuck with the same piano sound. The virtual instruments can also serve that purpose, be used to get away from the Casio/Kawai/Yamaha or whatever built-in piano samples.

Last edited by TheodorN; 02/02/18 07:25 AM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2711075
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Does anyone know when the full Kontakt version will be released?

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2711726
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I guess when Mr. Jason says so.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2729689
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Free playable trial version of Production Voices Concert Grand Compact.

https://www.productionvoices.com/product/concert-grand-compact-demo/


I don't think this trail version was previously available:

"* Concert Grand Compact DEMO allows users to try Concert Grand Compact with just a few keys. All the C's and a limited range from G3 above middle C to C5 are available to try in the demo version.

* The controls and features are near identical to the full version except that keyup and sympathetic resonance has been disabled.

* There is NO TIME LIMIT on the demo version. Only select notes are available on the demo version."

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2729799
04/18/18 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Free playable trial version of Production Voices Concert Grand Compact.

https://www.productionvoices.com/product/concert-grand-compact-demo/


I don't think this trail version was previously available:

"* Concert Grand Compact DEMO allows users to try Concert Grand Compact with just a few keys. All the C's and a limited range from G3 above middle C to C5 are available to try in the demo version.

* The controls and features are near identical to the full version except that keyup and sympathetic resonance has been disabled.

* There is NO TIME LIMIT on the demo version. Only select notes are available on the demo version."



While this is better than nothing, it's little more than an octave... It sounds nice, but it's way too little to spend $200 to $280 to try the rest. Especially the bass that is completely missing from the demo...A less defensive approach would have led to more sales IMO.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2729811
04/18/18 07:17 AM
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Agreed. Pianoteq's demo removes around a half-dozen notes. This demo removes around 70 of them?
That's not a demo. That's a practical joke.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2729835
04/18/18 09:14 AM
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Well, you should have got it for $19, when you had the chance. cool The Compact version is not bad, at least well worth $19. For $49, not so sure.

I'd rather recommend the Estate Grand for Sforzando for that money, since it's got three microphone pairs, not one like the Concert Grand Compact.

I myself will probably not get the full Concert Grand, simply for the reason I don't want the third SSD into my setup, or to have to exchange one of the 240/250GB SSDs for a 500GB one.

Last edited by TheodorN; 04/18/18 09:20 AM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2729937
04/18/18 02:50 PM
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I think Production Voices quickly put this demo out this week because of the recent release of the brand new Light And Sound Concert Grand Steinway Model C software piano with 11 mic perspectives on sliders plus a separate factory "Mix" perspective. L&S full product is on introductory offer for $99 USD / £71.56 GBP until 30 April.

After all, both products are pretty similar being Steinways with a very wide choice of mic perspectives, running in Kontakt (although are PV now using Plogue?), and many customers wanting to purchase a big Steinway virtual piano this year might opt for the new L&S available now for bargain price, rather than waiting until Production Voices full version is available ?????? and paying maybe 3 times the price for that instead, so Production Voices might fear they are losing potential sales and want to remind people of their forthcoming product.
In fairness, the Production Voices Steinway Compact version is already available now for $49, but that's a significantly stripped back version of the forthcoming full product.

Obviously if you're a die hard Steinway fan like me you'll be buying both...!

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: propianist] #2730418
04/20/18 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by propianist
Obviously if you're a die hard Steinway fan like me you'll be buying both...!
I am not dying yet (hopefully) smile but I was hunting for Steinway software piano several times with no much success (Galaxy Vintage D and PV Compact don't work for me, True Keys American almost does but not fully). So I am really interested if anyone here has experience with Light and Sound Concert Grand...

EDIT: Sorry I ran too fast with my question. I later found Light and Sound Concert Grand dedicated thread that answers it very well smile

Last edited by michaelvi; 04/20/18 03:15 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: michaelvi] #2730436
04/20/18 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelvi
Originally Posted by propianist
Obviously if you're a die hard Steinway fan like me you'll be buying both...!
I am not dying yet (hopefully) smile but I was hunting for Steinway software piano several times with no much success (Galaxy Vintage D and PV Compact don't work for me, True Keys American almost does but not fully). So I am really interested if anyone here has experience with Light and Sound Concert Grand...

EDIT: Sorry I ran too fast with my question. I later found Light and Sound Concert Grand dedicated thread that answers it very well smile

Haven't you tried Ivory German D or American yet? Those are IMO the best virtual Steinways aroud.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Digitalguy] #2730507
04/21/18 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Digitalguy
Originally Posted by michaelvi
Originally Posted by propianist
Obviously if you're a die hard Steinway fan like me you'll be buying both...!
I am not dying yet (hopefully) smile but I was hunting for Steinway software piano several times with no much success (Galaxy Vintage D and PV Compact don't work for me, True Keys American almost does but not fully). So I am really interested if anyone here has experience with Light and Sound Concert Grand...

EDIT: Sorry I ran too fast with my question. I later found Light and Sound Concert Grand dedicated thread that answers it very well smile

Haven't you tried Ivory German D or American yet? Those are IMO the best virtual Steinways aroud.

Thank you Digitalguy for suggestion. Ivory II ACD is in my wishlist under N1 but not for nearest time - I already spent too much time and money evaluating a number of different software pianos (far not all are in my signature) and currently CFX Lite is my main (and almost the only) instrument for practicing. I prefer to save money for full CFX upgrade first smile. Next try will be ACD - unless by that time community opinion will shift to something new smile. I asked about Light and Sound Concert Grand not buy it immediately but because I am still collecting information for some future smile...

Last edited by michaelvi; 04/21/18 07:10 AM.

Started 2016-01-29
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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2730542
04/21/18 08:59 AM
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You can try ACD on try-sound.com... the latency is huge, but you can hear if the timbre is ok for you.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Frédéric L] #2730618
04/21/18 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
You can try ACD on try-sound.com... the latency is huge, but you can hear if the timbre is ok for you.

Thanks Frédéric! Yes, I'll probably do it.


Started 2016-01-29
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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2737934
05/19/18 10:10 AM
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I revisited the PVCGC this week.

I tried this with monitors & sub, 3 way decent computer monitors, big open-backed headphones, a few iems. It sounded much better to my ears with my good iems (JVC HA-FX850); not sure why. I would encourage owners to try this VI with nice iems (well inserted into ears for low fq response).

The VI's sampling is clean and clear and it has a lot of the character of my teacher's Steinway. The VI is responsive, fun to play, and I like the sound of the piano and the room. The distance, velocity groups, pedalling challenges were addressed by others above and I hope they are all sorted for the full PVCG release.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744509
06/14/18 06:28 PM
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Many users have been asking me about what is happening with Concert Grand, our Steinway D piano library for Kontakt. I'm happy to report that it is near completion! It has been an epic journey, but worth the wait!

I’ll have more audio demos and videos soon! Let me know if you are interested in helping create audio demos! There are incentives!

I have delivery size numbers at the following, but it may change slightly:

Concert Grand Platinum 24 Bit 96 kHz Approx. 342 GB compressed or 658 GB uncompressed
Concert Grand Gold 24 Bit 44.1 kHz Approx. 157 GB compressed or 299 GB uncompressed
Concert Grand LE 16 Bit 44.1 kHz Approx. 77 GB compressed or 200 GB uncompressed
Concert Grand Full All sample rates Approx. 576 GB
Here is what is complete:

Interface, controls and functions
Concert Grand LE and Gold samples are already uploaded on our server ready for download.


Left to do:

Keymap minor sample refinements and final adjustments. Concert Grand is very useable in its current state, but there are minor refinements to do.
Upload Concert Grand Platinum samples.
Video demos, marketing materials, audio demos etc.
Factors slowing us down:

Should this be a licensed Kontakt library that includes Kontakt Player and plays nicely with NKS? This process will take an additional two months, is an extra expense and requires a royalty payment for each product sold. My thoughts on the matter are that Concert Grand is so large and represents a higher-end product that the majority of users will already own Kontakt. The flip side of the argument is that licensing Kontakt Player may open it up to a larger audience.

Challenges:

How do you make downloading 576 GB manageable?

One of the biggest concerns that Production Grand 2 users had was downloading 207 GB and only being able to download 3 or less files at a time! We are experimenting with Continuata download manager for Concert Grand. There are challenges such as Windows users having random issues getting the newer version of the software to work based on the version of Windows users have. Hard drives are an option, but for Production Grand, European orders were not reliably delivered. Hard drives have an added expense. What do you pack them in and do customers expect an unboxing moment when the package arrives?

Pricing:

This is all subject to change, but this is likely what we are looking at for pricing without Kontakt Player licensing:

Concert Grand LE: $149
Concert Grand Gold: $229
Concert Grand Full $329
Upgrade pricing from Concert Grand Compact to Concert Grand LE will be available.
Sale pricing: Likely we will launch first to existing customers and offer discounts to Production Grand 2 owners.
Release dates:

Crossing fingers that July 2018 for Concert Grand LE and Gold. Concert Grand Full: August?

More info to come.

Thanks for hanging in here with me! Concert Grand is a great product and I can't wait for you to give it a try in your everyday playing and production.



Kind Regards,

Jason Chapman
Production Voices

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744579
06/14/18 09:55 PM
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Fantastic! I've been waiting for a long time!
I already own the Compact version, so I wonder what the upgrade price will be. Can I upgrade to LE version only?
I'm looking forward to July. smile


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744585
06/14/18 10:58 PM
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Yikes, half a TB for a Piano library?
Kinda overkill don't you think?


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VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744602
06/15/18 01:11 AM
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Very excited for this.

@Granyala - I think the "smaller" 16/44.1 version will be just fine for me. The Garritan CFX is also at 16/44.1.

The Kontakt question is complex. Personally, If getting a Kontakt Free version takes signifincat development time and money, I would rather see those resources directed at making the very best VI possible.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744628
06/15/18 05:30 AM
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I have the Compact version, and I really like it as well. However, hundreds of gigabytes, calling for yet another SSD, make it a deal breaker for me. If the upgrade path to Concert Grand LE is cheap, it's a remote possibility I'll get it.

I felt the same about this new Embertone Steinway discussed elsewhere. That one is only 34GB for each mic pair, so about 102GB for me, as I wouldn't take less than three mic positions.

Pianoteq, with the new Steingraeber, even Blüthner, might be next on my wishlist, possibly CinePiano, or Wavesfactory Mercury, which actually weighs in at about 34GB. At least I don't want another disk space gobbler.


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Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744668
06/15/18 10:41 AM
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The main difference for a Kontakt (free) Player version is that the developer has to pay NI to compile a unique nicnt file and then pay for separate licence keys for each user. He has to buy these in blocks. Then you authorize the software with your license key through Native Access and library is added to the left menu. So he would have to pass this cost on to you.

For full Kontakt, a developer has nothing to do. He just gives you the files and you open them using the browser. It's no different then if you made your own instrument library. Essentially, NI makes you pay (Kontakt Full) or the developer pay (Kontakt free). Either way NI gets their money.

I'm getting concerned as well with the size of some of these libraries. I passed on the Synchron CFX because of the size and don't really need all the mics and velocity layers. I like the ala carte option on the Walker Steinway. I know here Jason is giving you a lot of mics, thus the size, even though there are just 12 velocity layers. Like above I am somewhat interested in the LE version, but getting to the point I have to invest in another SSD.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744672
06/15/18 10:50 AM
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Just when I thought that 100 Mbps internet service was fast enough ... and now comes a library sized at 250GB !
That's a five hour download. frown

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744677
06/15/18 11:12 AM
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MacMacMac I was thinking the same thing. Only way I would ever consider this Mega Piano library is if it came on a
SSD hard drive. Really makes my decision to go will Pianoteq look good. I figure modeling for me is the future.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744690
06/15/18 12:23 PM
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I can download the LE overnight so like that option. But for those with "slower" internet service, a regular USB 2.0 key at 128GB for LE is a good option in my view.

A decent 128GB USB key is robust, easy to ship, almost universal, and retails for around $25. It provides a nice backup for the consumer. If you can get the LE compressed files closer to 64GB, say by throwing away a mic pair, the 64GB USB key is half the price.

Of course USB 3.x is faster but it still has some Windows compatability issues and might be a bit more expensive. Those with USB-C can provide more colour for that connector.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744691
06/15/18 12:26 PM
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About the Kontakt 5/Kontakt Player issue, the reason Jason gives for wanting to have his new Steinway only for Kontakt 5, is the library is very large, representing a higher-end product, and it's likely the majority of users will already own Kontakt. See his email, which Cinjero publishes here earlier.

So it seems his niche is the professionals, or semi-professionals, though the line between an amateur and a (semi)-professional, can be blurry. There is nothing wrong with that, and it's one way to cut costs, and get the selling price down.

As we've discussed, the major stumbling block of this new VSTi, is it's huge size, not the Kontakt 5/Player issue. Actually the RAM might be another bottleneck. I got extra 16GB for my computer, to be able to load all microphone positions of the Production Grand 2 Gold, which is a lot smaller library than Production Steinway D Concert Grand.

Anyhow, I recommend getting the full Kontakt 5, at least for those who qualify for the crossgrade price, €124,50, when it's 50% off. Not because of PV's new Steinway, but because it opens the doors for many other interesting libraries, like from Cinesamples, and Chocolate Audio.

I've read some comments elsewhere, stating that Kontakt 5 is problematic for virtual piano instruments, but I've not experienced it. Don't know if that's because I am tone deaf or not, ha ha!


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Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: EPW] #2744696
06/15/18 12:50 PM
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There are alternatives. I got google internet a year ago. They offer 1000 Mbps. So that would be a 30 minute download.
But at the time I figured that 100 Mbps was enough.
Originally Posted by EPW
I was thinking the same thing. Only way I would ever consider this Mega Piano library is if it came on a
SSD hard drive. Really makes my decision to go will Pianoteq look good. I figure modeling for me is the future.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744700
06/15/18 01:32 PM
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Not in my neck of the city. Don't think it is coming anytime soon.
Sad part is I'm in a big metro area. Most I can get is 100Mbps

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744712
06/15/18 02:44 PM
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I know a number of folks here who do not have full Kontakt and so this is an issue for them. As far as getting the crossgrade pricing which is currently on sale for $125, ironically it only works if you have a third party library they recognize and already has a Kontakt player version. So for most, they would have to pay full price and would not qualify for the discount pricing. NI has some really convoluted pricing policies.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744718
06/15/18 03:01 PM
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Agreed NI has some opaque and expensive pricing schemes. That is an issue here.

I have seen this Kontakt $125 crossgrade trick a few places (but haven't tried myself):

Originally Posted by Fleer
You can get the crossgrade price with the free Sennheiser drummic'a (http://de-de.sennheiser.com/drummica).


http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...layer-vs-kontakt-5-full.html#Post2626829

https://www.native-instruments.com/...akt-5-player/kontakt-player-vs.-kontakt/

Last edited by newer player; 06/15/18 03:09 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744722
06/15/18 03:49 PM
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Think I qualified for the crossgrade price after I got Galaxy German Grand, at €80. Didn't buy it just to get Kontakt 5 at a reduced price, think I bought a few more Kontakt Player compatible instruments after that. Never had the intention to get Kontakt 5, but then suddenly did one day, guess it's called G.A.S by some.


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Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2744725
06/15/18 04:21 PM
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Expensive, yes.
But not opaque. They tell you straight up: You gotta pay a lot!
Originally Posted by newer player
Agreed NI has some opaque and expensive pricing schemes. That is an issue here.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2744740
06/15/18 05:28 PM
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I've used Continuata as a download manager for other products; its reliable which I would hope what he decides to go with, download links are 80s tech.

342 is a lot of pianos (2 x the Yamaha)---- I could squeeze it onto my SSD (2) ~ 2tb or my SSD (3) ~1t, either have the space... hmm what to do...

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2748704
07/02/18 06:13 AM
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What day will the release date be? I am eagerly awaiting this. I can't wait to hear the demos smile


Garritan CFX full, VI Labs Ravenscroft 275, VI Labs True Keys, EWQL Pianos Platinum, PV Studio Grand LE, PV Concert Grand Compact, WS 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand, VSL Vienna Imperial, VSL Yamaha CFX Full, UVI Grand Piano Collection, AS C7 Grand, Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D Lite
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751074
07/12/18 05:46 PM
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Is there any chance that by the miracle, soundwise final release of the Production Voices Concert Grand can be as good as Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D? Demo here doesn't sound as good...

https://vimeo.com/222850726/6293497e54

Should I wait for a release?


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751085
07/12/18 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Is there any chance that by the miracle, soundwise final release of the Production Voices Concert Grand can be as good as Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D? Demo here doesn't sound as good...

https://vimeo.com/222850726/6293497e54

Should I wait for a release?


The demo sounds okay to me but I did notice that it was posted a year ago. The more or equally important question is how playable is the piano library going to be. Embertone has received some criticism in this aspect on this forum although I think i read somewhere that Embertone are working on updates.



Last edited by Jay017; 07/12/18 06:42 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751090
07/12/18 06:57 PM
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Maybe this is a better representation of Production Voices Concert Grand. Still an early demo from 9 months ago.

But has several mics. It might requre headphones for proper sound with Ambisonics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gGmoZ604J8

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751097
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Thanks. Saw this demo... Sounded flat to me. Hate that video. He said: "Cracks caused by a computer, not by a Concert Grand library" and this cracks are on their other videos too. I haven't seen such an unprofessional attitude elsewhere. Guys, if your computer is so weak, then you need to buy a new computer! Customers will not believe you or will think your software is so "Heavy" that will not run on their laptop. You have to buy 12 Core Xeon but don't even mention about the cracks! I suspect that they even don't have an 88 key keyboard during the demos... Look at the limited key range they press...

PV shines on "How you should act to prevent the selling of your products". Their demos are Zero informative! 90% of sounds played the Middle and the High register. Buyers want to hear the Low register too! Please, do something with your demos! Just find one good pianist and tell him to play all the keyboard long and post these videos.

They spent their time in things as "ambisonics" and "under the piano mics"...



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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Max_Forte] #2751106
07/12/18 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
newer player

Thanks. Saw this demo... Sounded flat to me. Hate that video. He said: "Cracks caused by a computer, not by a Concert Grand library" and this cracks are on their other videos too. I haven't seen such an unprofessional attitude elsewhere. Guys, if your computer is so weak, then you need to buy a new computer! Customers will not believe you or will think your software is so "Heavy" that will not run on their laptop. You have to buy 12 Core Xeon but don't even mention about the cracks! I suspect that they even don't have an 88 key keyboard during the demos... Look at the limited key range they press...

PV shines on "How you should act to prevent the selling of your products". Their demos are Zero informative! 90% of sounds played the Middle and the High register. Buyers want to hear the Low register too! Please, do something with your demos! Just find one good pianist and tell him to play all the keyboard long and post these videos.

They spent their time in things as "ambisonics" and "under the piano mics"...



Not flat to me.
However, that demos are a long time ago, not even demos after the release.
It is not too late to criticize the product after the official demos.
In other words, it's too early to judge everything with incomplete demos. Let's wait for the release.

Last edited by angmyu; 07/12/18 08:55 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Max_Forte] #2751115
07/12/18 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Maybe this is a better representation of Production Voices Concert Grand. Still an early demo from 9 months ago.

But has several mics. It might requre headphones for proper sound with Ambisonics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gGmoZ604J8


Thanks for posting this. Sounds quite nice to me, just hope the playability is as good as Galaxy or CFX.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751185
07/13/18 07:48 AM
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I have to say that the playability of Production Voices' pianos is great, the samples are clean and UI design of the Production Grand 2 is the best in my opinion. It's a pity their demos don't show the actual level of their software. I purchased Production Grand 2 only because of the advice of users ( BTW thanks guys) on this forum, demos were useless. Now it is my second favorite piano VSTi (after Vintage D).


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Max_Forte] #2751201
07/13/18 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Thanks. Saw this demo... Sounded flat to me.


The PVCG Compact does not sound flat to me and the lower registers have quite a bit of energy. There are some issues with what I call a *beta release Compact which are noted clearly above. This beta released 6 months ago shows a lot of promise if the quirks are ironed out.

Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Hate that video. He said: "Cracks caused by a computer, not by a Concert Grand library" and this cracks are on their other videos too


The computer pops and crackles are probably from trying to run the video software and piano together. I found them distracting as well. One of the early videos has an apparent L-R balance issue. But I would prefer Jason focus on getting the VI as good as possible so I do not care about the video updates or ambosonics so much.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751295
07/13/18 05:41 PM
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Audio demos. Sounds much better than on early videos.

Playlist on Sound Cloud:

https://soundcloud.com/productionvoices/sets/concert-grand


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2751428
07/14/18 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player

The PVCG Compact does not sound flat to me and the lower registers have quite a bit of energy. There are some issues with what I call a *beta release Compact which are noted clearly above. This beta released 6 months ago shows a lot of promise if the quirks are ironed out.


The lower registers are indeed not bad. It's the upper registers that concern me; very weak and decaying far too quickly. I do hope he finds a way to address that.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751450
07/14/18 10:30 AM
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Thanks for posting those demos Max Forte.

Interestingly, the third demo was posted 2 years ago and has no, "Kontakt scripting or "magic" done to the samples."

The other four demos were posted 17 days ago with "no processing (no EQ, no reverb, no compression)."

You can see the details written in soundcloud if you click on the track name. . .

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Max_Forte] #2751479
07/14/18 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Audio demos. Sounds much better than on early videos.

Playlist on Sound Cloud:

https://soundcloud.com/productionvoices/sets/concert-grand


Thanks for posting. I agree, piano sounds better again via these audio demos.

Last edited by -Jay-; 07/14/18 12:48 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: -Jay-] #2751537
07/14/18 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by -Jay-
Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Audio demos. Sounds much better than on early videos.

Playlist on Sound Cloud:

https://soundcloud.com/productionvoices/sets/concert-grand


Thanks for posting. I agree, piano sounds better again via these audio demos.


You are welcome. it is really interesting as they sounds really different. Maybe it's because of their traditionally bad quality walkthrough videos.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751575
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Is it possible to rename this thread to "Production Voices - Concert Grand" ?
This product will become very popular, so it will be great to collect all the useful information in this thread.

With all the respect to OP, the present name of the thread is confusing as it looks like it was posted in "Digital pianos" forum by a mistake.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Max_Forte] #2751580
07/14/18 10:05 PM
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Max_Forte - That makes sense but only a moderator could change that.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751662
07/15/18 09:23 AM
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I want to share with you an exceptional video of a recorded Yamaha C7 with Neumann KU 100 Dummy Head Microphone.

Youtube video is under the spoiler. Use your high-quality headphones and start the video from 2:03. It is incredible! This is the beauty of a real acoustic instrument that we don't hear in the VSTis...

I'd like to get one this mic perspective in my VSTi instead of ambisonic, under the piano, 2 rooms, outside etc! It is not very difficult.

String resonance triggered by a voice sounds so beautiful!



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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751663
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I meant mic position named "# 5 position Under the Hood" in the video, usually "Close mic" in many VSTis


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Max_Forte] #2751692
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
I want to share with you an exceptional video of a recorded Yamaha C7 with Neumann KU 100 Dummy Head Microphone.

Youtube video is under the spoiler. Use your high-quality headphones and start the video from 2:03. It is incredible! This is the beauty of a real acoustic instrument that we don't hear in the VSTis...

I'd like to get one this mic perspective in my VSTi instead of ambisonic, under the piano, 2 rooms, outside etc! It is not very difficult.

String resonance triggered by a voice sounds so beautiful!




very beautiful sound that I wanted to get from Piano VSTs.
But they usually don't have this nuance.


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: angmyu] #2751700
07/15/18 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by angmyu
Originally Posted by Max_Forte
I want to share with you an exceptional video of a recorded Yamaha C7 with Neumann KU 100 Dummy Head Microphone.

Youtube video is under the spoiler. Use your high-quality headphones and start the video from 2:03. It is incredible! This is the beauty of a real acoustic instrument that we don't hear in the VSTis...

I'd like to get one this mic perspective in my VSTi instead of ambisonic, under the piano, 2 rooms, outside etc! It is not very difficult.

String resonance triggered by a voice sounds so beautiful!




very beautiful sound that I wanted to get from Piano VSTs.
But they usually don't have this nuance.

Exactly how Embertone Steinway D sounds. Main mics plus close mics gives you everything that you hear from this video. And there is binaural above the shoulder also.Thats why I love them the most. They record that resonance like you are there. Thanks Max, fantastic video.

Last edited by slobajudge; 07/15/18 12:50 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751703
07/15/18 12:58 PM
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Excellent recording. Neumann binaural set very impressive indeed. Beautiful sound and a rare case (for me anyway) of binaural that actually works: the sound is outside your head, outside the phones, over there and all around. Great!


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751704
07/15/18 01:00 PM
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That guy has some interesting binaural recordings on his site. Worth checking out a few videos.

I think the Neumann binaural head is a bit hit-or-miss. I don't think it is very compelling on the Garritan CFX (although I like the default mics).

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751705
07/15/18 01:15 PM
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I think the Neumann binaural head is a bit hit-or-miss. I don't think it is very compelling on the Garritan CFX (although I like the default mics).
Binaural has always been hit and miss for me, but this youtube recording worked for me. The most effective binaural recording I ever heard - it sounded just like real solid objects in real space - was made by me using two matched but very cheap dynamic microphones and my own head as the dummy. This suggests that the system is dependent on one's own psycho-acoustic make up, and one's own acoustic memory.


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Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2751708
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Now after you've listened to it try another Interesting thing with the same video: Watch it without headphones! Yes, use your speakers! smile I use my JBL - LSR305.

It sounds on speakers very good too!

I think this point shows the potential of binaural recordings in the sampling technology and the unused power of sampling itself! We see that much higher quality samples can be recorded. And much higher quality can be achieved in VSTis. As in any other field, needed engineers with the fresh mind and thoughts.


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Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyerdynamic DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Max_Forte] #2751715
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Now after you've listened to it try another Interesting thing with the same video: Watch it without headphones! Yes, use your speakers! smile I use my JBL - LSR305.

It sounds on speakers very good too!

I think this point shows the potential of binaural recordings in the sampling technology and the unused power of sampling itself! We see that much higher quality samples can be recorded. And much higher quality can be achieved in VSTis. As in any other field, needed engineers with the fresh mind and thoughts.


Yes, it sounds good on speakers. There is an immersive, upfront real-life sound that you don't normally get. However, the full binaural effect, which is quite impressive - even shocking - at first, can only be got with (reasonably) good stereo phones. I'm not sure that you'd always want this sound perspective in a VST piano, but it's certainly a useful option to have.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: toddy] #2751720
07/15/18 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by toddy
Yes, it sounds good on speakers. There is an immersive, upfront real-life sound that you don't normally get. However, the full binaural effect, which is quite impressive - even shocking - at first, can only be got with (reasonably) good stereo phones. I'm not sure that you'd always want this sound perspective in a VST piano, but it's certainly a useful option to have.


Exactly! You can easily mix it with other perspectives or use alone on headphones as binaural! Great option to have instead of "under the piano", "ambisonics" or another useless in my opinion mics.


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Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyerdynamic DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2752829
07/20/18 02:08 PM
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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2752891
07/20/18 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
New videos from Production Voices Concert Grand (Steinway D) covering presets and Ambisonics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cUAHd148X0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRKkRMTfx5o

Video description says August 2018 release. Jason also stated Concert Grand & Production Grand 2 shared same: studio, equipment, mics (but Concert Grand has a few additional mics)

Updated website includes:

Full $??? (24/96.0, 1.1TB)
Gold $249 (24/44.1, 299GB)
LE $149 (16/44.1, 200GB)

9 mic positions. Kontakt 5.7 and above (not for Kontakt Player).


Hmm, I don't see those specs....

Concert Grand Platinum 24 Bit 96 kHz Approx. 342 GB compressed or 658 GB uncompressed
Concert Grand Gold 24 Bit 44.1 kHz Approx. 157 GB compressed or 299 GB uncompressed
Concert Grand LE 16 Bit 44.1 kHz Approx. 77 GB compressed or 200 GB uncompressed
Concert Grand Full All sample rates Approx. 576 GB

This is all subject to change, but this is likely what we are looking at for pricing without Kontakt Player licensing:
Concert Grand LE: $149
Concert Grand Gold: $229
Concert Grand Full $329
Upgrade pricing from Concert Grand Compact to Concert Grand LE will be available.
Sale pricing: Likely we will launch first to existing customers and offer discounts to Production Grand 2 owners.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2752972
07/21/18 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Cinjero
Hmm, I don't see those specs....


I quoted uncompressed size from the website - your data is more relevant as that is actual disc storage required.

Jason updated prices but I'll take your prices too!
____

Main Mics Walkthrough video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhKAziI2GAE

Master FX Walkthrough video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1iHmXKCRPA

Settings Page Walkthrough video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxkl8O9x1xc

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2753048
07/22/18 12:07 AM
07/22/18 12:07 AM
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angmyu Offline
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Is the release date is August, not July?


Garritan CFX full, VI Labs Ravenscroft 275, VI Labs True Keys, EWQL Pianos Platinum, PV Studio Grand LE, PV Concert Grand Compact, WS 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand, VSL Vienna Imperial, VSL Yamaha CFX Full, UVI Grand Piano Collection, AS C7 Grand, Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D Lite
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: MacMacMac] #2753264
07/23/18 01:14 AM
07/23/18 01:14 AM
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Shelter Cove, CA, USA
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
There are alternatives. I got google internet a year ago. They offer 1000 Mbps. So that would be a 30 minute download.


I'm in a *very* rural location - so I pay $1/Gb ... which makes the download cost greater than cost of the software!

hmmm...


Kawai MP11SE | K&M 18950 | Pianoteq Pro (Bleuthner, Steingraeber, Petrof, Steinway D, Electric Pianos, K) | Sennheiser HD600 | Direct Sound EX-29 Plus (isolation headphones)
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: jackifus] #2753312
07/23/18 08:58 AM
07/23/18 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jackifus
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
There are alternatives. I got google internet a year ago. They offer 1000 Mbps. So that would be a 30 minute download.


I'm in a *very* rural location - so I pay $1/Gb ... which makes the download cost greater than cost of the software!

hmmm...


Me too! I have satellite internet, so I only get 80 GB a month to use. -_-

Hopefully the full version will come on a hard drive. I believe the full version of Production Grand 2 was available on a hard drive?

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2753510
07/24/18 05:29 AM
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Great sound with the demo links. Problem is of course speculation on You-Tube "sound" and what equipment he's using... I would imagine it would sound better once in our own hands. Also interesting was the mics "on" but the sliders down or nearly down; I've seen that w/the C7 but didn't make much sense, now it does... although after trying it I wouldn't say it adds a lot.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2753661
07/24/18 06:50 PM
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https://www.productionvoices.com/product/concert-grand-gold/

Concert Grand Gold
$249.00

Available Soon!
Concert Grand Gold is a premium 299 GB, 9 microphone piano sample library sampled from a Steinway D New York 9' Concert Grand Piano built for the full version of Kontakt 5.7 and above (not for Kontakt Player).

If you listen to classical or jazz piano recordings, chances are that is a Steinway D, the iconic king of the concert stage. For decades, performers have requested the warmth and grandeur of the Steinway sound. It is in heavy contrast to bright pop production pianos found in many recording studios. It’s elegant and refined. Every engineer has a slightly different way of recording such a large instrument and every player wants to hear a different aspect of the sound. This is why Concert Grand’s 9 microphone control is so important. You can dial in a variety of tones with microphone placements that are time-tested by audio engineers. Concert Grand let’s you take control of your sound unlike any piano library before it. The ambisonics channel is a leap forward in sample library flexibility. Be warned! Concert Grand captures all this Steinway has to offer including its thumps and bumps and louder than most mechanical noises. We didn’t strip away the imperfections, but let them contribute to the authentic piano sound.

Concert Grand Gold takes the 24 bit 44.1k samples from the larger Concert Grand, our 1.1 TB Steinway D piano library, and makes for a faster loading, amazing sounding virtual instrument piano that is easy to use and inspiring to play!

Out of stock

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2753921
07/26/18 04:19 AM
07/26/18 04:19 AM
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How much of a difference in sound is there via the 16 bit vs 24 bit versions if your DAW is set to 24 bit anyway ?

Anyone know the bit-depth of Garritan CFX Concert Grand samples?

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: -Jay-] #2753936
07/26/18 07:01 AM
07/26/18 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by -Jay-
How much of a difference in sound is there via the 16 bit vs 24 bit versions if your DAW is set to 24 bit anyway?

Anyone know the bit-depth of Garritan CFX Concert Grand samples?


Sound and the can of worms----- sound is subjective to the person, as many would say. I prefer 96/24; but for notable sound differences, it could vary with systems/speakers, etc.

Not sure about the bit version w/CFX.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2753940
07/26/18 07:37 AM
07/26/18 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Cinjero
Originally Posted by -Jay-
How much of a difference in sound is there via the 16 bit vs 24 bit versions if your DAW is set to 24 bit anyway?

Anyone know the bit-depth of Garritan CFX Concert Grand samples?


Sound and the can of worms----- sound is subjective to the person, as many would say. I prefer 96/24; but for notable sound differences, it could vary with systems/speakers, etc.

Not sure about the bit version w/CFX.

I think that CFX samples are 16 bit 44.1khz

Last edited by slobajudge; 07/26/18 07:39 AM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: slobajudge] #2753969
07/26/18 10:35 AM
07/26/18 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bsntn99
The samples are 16/44 for the CFX.


http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...an-cfx-sample-frequency.html#Post2710075

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: -Jay-] #2753971
07/26/18 10:59 AM
07/26/18 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by -Jay-
How much of a difference in sound is there via the 16 bit vs 24 bit versions if your DAW is set to 24 bit anyway ?


From a practical perspective, your amps, speakers, headphones and ears will see zero difference between 16 and 24 bit.

24 bit files are huge so require bigger SSDs. But for music producers, 24 bit provides some technical advantages.

As Cinjero notes, higher sample rates can provide benefits; some DAC and output stages "reproduce" sound more "correctly" using sample rates of say 48 or 96KHz.

PianoTeq is a different beast than sampled pianos; the Pro version "synthesizes sounds" more effectively at 192KHz vs the typical 48KHz of cheaper versions (there is a thread on the PianoTeq site with some files you can compare a few notes). That is different than sound reproduction in the previous paragraph.

Last edited by newer player; 07/26/18 11:06 AM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754036
07/26/18 04:53 PM
07/26/18 04:53 PM
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Now, 550GB SSDs only need to go down to $50, and this VSTi might become an option. cool


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: TheodorN] #2754039
07/26/18 05:03 PM
07/26/18 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
Now, 550GB SSDs only need to go down to $50, and this VSTi might become an option. cool


Cool. My only concern is this piano seems to be even more rich than the C7 ---- so what DAW/Kontakt issues will arise? Adding reverb or other plug-ins seem to randomly cause issues (cracking, etc) with PG2. Kontakt alone is pretty solid (just the piano).

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754108
07/27/18 04:59 AM
07/27/18 04:59 AM
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Meant to say 500GB, the typing error devil crept in on me. I know Crucial MX300 is 525GB, but I don't think there are any 550GB SSDs.

I haven't tried my PG2 Gold with any external reverbs or plug-ins, but it's a sin if it causes crackles. I've felt I'm giving my CPU enough work with four or five microphone pairs on, so I've not been taxing my system with anything more on top, not that I recall at least.

Last edited by TheodorN; 07/27/18 05:02 AM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754409
07/28/18 05:37 PM
07/28/18 05:37 PM
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Concert Grand Release Date: August 7th
Many Production Voices users have been asking what’s going on with Concert Grand, our soon to be released 9-mic Steinway D piano sample library for Kontakt 5.7 and higher.

We’ve gone through beta testing and have had great responses with users raving about Concert Grand’s sound and playability! This makes the nearly three years of work worthwhile! Check out the audio demos below to hear what Concert Grand can do.

I have been working hard at putting the finishing touches on it and making sure that this massive piano sample library can be downloaded without any trouble.

Some PC beta testers had issues getting our downloader to work and we had some website issues with codes not being delivered properly, but we’ve worked these out and I’m happy to say that will be ready to launch Concert Grand on August 7th.

Audio Demos Available Now
I’d love if you would check out the demos on Soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.com/productionvoices/sets/conce...

Concert Grand Features:
9 microphone perspectives
Ambisonic 3D sound control
Binaural player mic position
24 bit 96k source samples
Round-robin pedal noise samples with normal and loud settings
Sampled key up mechanical noises from the actual keyboard action
Sympathetic Resonance with on/off and volume controls
Burl Mothership boutique-quality A/D converters used
20+ velocities pedal up per key
20+ velocities pedal down per key
16 velocities release samples
Advanced half-pedal control with catch
Custom installer to automate the installation process


Stay tuned for videos, intro pricing and Concert Grand Compact upgrade pricing!


Kind regards,

Jason Chapman

Lead Designer

Production Voices

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754415
07/28/18 06:03 PM
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Hi Jason:) The soundcloud link you provided is broken. I think you cut some words from the link while pasting it.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754416
07/28/18 06:21 PM
07/28/18 06:21 PM
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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: tdwctdwc] #2754588
07/29/18 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc


Hi Jason:) The soundcloud link you provided is broken. I think you cut some words from the link while pasting it.


Yeah, Jason probably didn't get that but I guess the link didn't paste over correctly. rach3master provided the correct one.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754595
07/29/18 07:53 PM
07/29/18 07:53 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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I don't think Cinjero is Jason, is he?

If not, it would perhaps have been better to enclose Jason's message using the quote function of the forum, to make this point clear.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Kawai James] #2754602
07/29/18 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I don't think Cinjero is Jason, is he?

If not, it would perhaps have been better to enclose Jason's message using the quote function of the forum, to make this point clear.

Kind regards,
James
x


No he is not. Laugh,

That post was just a copy I took from an email I got (being a Production Grand owner). Just passing on the update/info.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754603
07/29/18 08:12 PM
07/29/18 08:12 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Yes, that's what I thought - thanks for clarifying. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754667
07/30/18 05:48 AM
07/30/18 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Cinjero
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc


Hi Jason:) The soundcloud link you provided is broken. I think you cut some words from the link while pasting it.


Yeah, Jason probably didn't get that but I guess the link didn't paste over correctly. rach3master provided the correct one.

Probably didn't get that? Trying to be funny? Next time please put a quote on your message so we know it was not Jason or just write " i got an email/update from PV saying..." .

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754761
07/30/18 12:58 PM
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"He's a direct link with some apparently updated information."

https://www.productionvoices.com/product/concert-grand-gold/

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754774
07/30/18 03:04 PM
07/30/18 03:04 PM
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I don't think it's reasonable to be bothered by the criticism, Cinjero. That's what your quotation marks would suggest.
In all fairness, your post at the top of the page is signed with "lead designer...". That's misleading. Just something worth keeping in mind smile

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: mcoll] #2754815
07/30/18 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mcoll
I don't think it's reasonable to be bothered by the criticism, Cinjero. That's what your quotation marks would suggest.
In all fairness, your post at the top of the page is signed with "lead designer...". That's misleading. Just something worth keeping in mind smile


Reasonable?

Really??

Yeah, it's not unreasonable to know how to read a forum and understand how it works. Did you check page 1, post 1?

OMG.... wow. EOL.

Quote
Production Voices (production grand) has announced / updated the progress @90%. With released possibly in the FALL.

Total library (all versions 24/96, 24, 16) nearing 580 gigs. (gulp) ~ 16 bit alone is 100 gig.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754825
07/30/18 07:33 PM
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Ok - let's revert back to the VI discussion.

Thanks for the updated links. As this was recorded at 24/96, I am tempted to grab the Gold. But the SSD requirements are a bit large and I am not sure this would play on my older laptop.

So I would like to see a "player special" version at 16/48 because:

+ much less SSD space required

+ easier to use with older computers

+ 48KHz might sound better than 44.1KHz (48KHz easily derived by dividing by 2 & more headroom for our DAC filters)

+ 16 bit samples provide plenty of dynamic range for consumers who are not producing/editing music

- Will require more SSD space & more computer horsepower than 16/44.1

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2754848
07/31/18 12:34 AM
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So I was right to perceive your quotation marks as sarcasm ha
But I didn't expect you'd take offense that much... Especially at a friendly remark. Sorry for the offtopic...

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2754866
07/31/18 04:32 AM
07/31/18 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player

+ 48KHz might sound better than 44.1KHz (48KHz easily derived by dividing by 2 & more headroom for our DAC filters)


I'm glad you picked up on that; I noticed that as well, and it does seem a bit strange. Downsampling to 48Khz to save space and have essentially no impact on the sound makes a lot of sense, but downgrading to 44.1Khz just because it's the CD standard, and introducing small aliasing effects while doing so and potentially increasing further distortion from any subsequent filtering, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756435
08/07/18 09:29 AM
08/07/18 09:29 AM
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out now


Garritan CFX full, VI Labs Ravenscroft 275, VI Labs True Keys, EWQL Pianos Platinum, PV Studio Grand LE, PV Concert Grand Compact, WS 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand, VSL Vienna Imperial, VSL Yamaha CFX Full, UVI Grand Piano Collection, AS C7 Grand, Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D Lite
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756541
08/07/18 03:47 PM
08/07/18 03:47 PM
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To buy or not to buy. That is the question.

$99 for Concert Grand LE, tempting.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756550
08/07/18 04:50 PM
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Really hard to buy another one piano VSTi if you already own so many that you even can't mention all of them in your signature...


Casio PX-350
Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyerdynamic DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756567
08/07/18 05:17 PM
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Now I want to buy something that sounds like a real instrument (Ok, ok, as close as it's possible smile ).

Watch this incredible video. Priceless content. These guys caught a "soul" of each instrument with a very simple setup without dozens of microphones.

Especially listen from 00:59 Body and soul of Steinway D at all its beauty!




Casio PX-350
Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyerdynamic DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756570
08/07/18 05:19 PM
08/07/18 05:19 PM
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Hard to buy more you say?
Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Really hard to buy another one piano VSTi if you already own so many that you even can't mention all of them in your signature.
Unfortunately, Max, that's not true.

That's why this fool and his money were often parted ...
- 4Front True Pianos
- 8DIO 1928 Steinway
- 8DIO 1929 Legacy Piano
- 8DIO 1969 Legacy Piano
- Alicia's Keys
- Amore Grand Piano
- Analogic Piano
- Aria Maestosa
- Berlin Concert Grand
- Cinesamples Piano in Blue
- Galaxy Steinway
- Galaxy Vienna Grand
- Galaxy Vintage D
- Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
- Garritan Steinway
- Imperfect Samples Fazioli Ebony Concert Grand
- Imperfect Samples Old Black Grand Pleyl
- Imperfect Samples White Baby Grand
- Jonathans Glockenspiel
- Kawai EX Pro
- NI Berlin Concert Grand
- NI New York Concert Grand
- NI The Gentleman
- NI The Giant
- NI The Grandeur
- NI The Maverick
- NI Vienna Concert Grand
- NI Vintage Organs
- Pianissimo
- Realsamples Italian Harpsichord
- Salamander Piano
- Sampletekk WG2 Studio Grand Piano
- Signature Piano
- SoniMusicae Blanchet 1720
- Sonivox Harpsichord
- Synthogy Ivory 1.5 Bosendorfer
- Synthogy Ivory 1.5 Fazioli
- Synthogy Ivory 1.5 Steinway
- Synthogy Ivory 1.5 Yamaha
- XLN Audio Addictive Keys 1.0.6

Last edited by MacMacMac; 08/07/18 05:20 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756571
08/07/18 05:24 PM
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I completely understand you MacMacMac . That's why I want something different, not similar to what I already have.


Casio PX-350
Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyerdynamic DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756577
08/07/18 05:50 PM
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My favourite demo tracks of Production Voices - Concert Grand

https://soundcloud.com/productionvo...y?in=productionvoices/sets/concert-grand

https://soundcloud.com/productionvo...1?in=productionvoices/sets/concert-grand

On these tracks, I can feel the body of the Grand piano. I think adding some reverb (not built-in) will increase that feeling.


Casio PX-350
Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyerdynamic DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756582
08/07/18 06:19 PM
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TheodorN Offline
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Max_Forte, did you really think I'd let the short space for the signature stop me? cool Though your list is longer.

Otherwise, MacMacMac nailed it. Interesting to see the list over his GAS attacks. wink I've actually considered the majority of those piano VSTs at some point in time.

One question though, isn't the Old Black Grand Pleyel from AcousticSamples? I don't see any mention of a Pleyel on the ImperfectSamples website.

I like the video from Stefan Mendl, and have seen it before. Seems they just put microphone pairs above the hammers, but a little back, maybe a mixture of what is called hammer and far/room microphones, by the VSTi companies.

Well recorded, and captured, by the Synchron Stage Vienna guys, not saying it isn't, but I don't think it's anything the VSTi companies can't capture, or haven't, at least not the big names in the business.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756651
08/07/18 11:48 PM
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Wow, Mac, that's an impresive (/disturbing) list. If there's an average price of 100e/VST, you're looking at some top-of the line digitals or a nice used acoustic.
Albeit, you have 40 pianos there, not just one.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2756686
08/08/18 03:28 AM
08/08/18 03:28 AM
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I don't remember what I paid for these pianos. Some were cheap. Some were even free.
It was not surprising that the freebies were of poor quality.
But it WAS surprising that some of the high-priced ones were crap.

I think I may have outgrown the G.A.S syndrome. I haven't bought a piano this year, nor last.
But this board and the many threads where new pianos are discussed make it hard!

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757156
08/09/18 01:54 PM
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I am really happy that this is out. I can relate to what some people here say about having too many VSTs and about not wanting to invest too much more into even more libraries. Thing is, this library right here has been in the making for years, and no matter how it will actually turn out, the work that went into it is probably unprecedented. Or perhaps VSL CFX might come close with its ten mics and hundreds of gigs. But from what I can tell, this is a one man show. Blows my mind how he was able to pull this off. With all the delays I thought that perhaps he's gonna quit, but now it is finished! Awesome. Much respect.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757161
08/09/18 02:25 PM
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I might go for this eventually but honestly i'm at the point where i can safely say without hesitation or "only ifs" that i found my go-to piano in the VSL CFX.

It took me a long time to find a piano that not only excels in tone and playablity, but also sounds amazing and full in the final mixdown on any system you throw it in (car stereo, PA system, phone, ipad, laptop speakers, you name it...).

You know that signature cologne you put when you go out on any occasion because you know it will be appropriate no matter what. That's how i feel about the VSL CFX.

The only reason why i might got for this Steinway D in the future is out of curiosity, to see if all the hard work put in making it translates and lives up to the specs.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757195
08/09/18 05:14 PM
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I will most likely pass on the introductory offer. If it goes on sale later down the line, I might get it, and might even pick it up at the full price, if it will be considered good by other users.

I'm talking about Concert Grand LE, as I'm reluctant to go for libraries occupying more SSD space, which is still rather expensive.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757288
08/10/18 04:15 AM
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I've already got the Production Voices Steinway Concert Grand COMPACT version, but it has the following serious issues...
For me, unless those issues are 100% working (in the full version), it's a deal-breaker, so not I'm buying it.
Anybody able to confirm either way, please?


1. Cannot play a note silently, no matter how slowly I depress the key.

2. Sympathetic string resonance doesn't really work...
Without sustain pedal, hold down any key like middle C (almost silently!), then briefly strike any related notes in the harmonic series ABOVE or BELOW and they should cause the held-down middle C note's undamped string to start resonating in sympathy at its fundamental or harmonic pitches, depending which note pitch excited their resonance... and you'll hear their resonant ringing continuing as long as you keep holding down the silent middle C key. We all know this, right?!
But on PV Concert Grand Compact, it's not working properly... It only works for notes ABOVE (eg. strike a high C octave ABOVE and you hear that high C's pitch ringing from middle C's undamped harmonic) whereas for any related notes BELOW it doesn't work, eg. strike lower octave C and it should excite middle C's undamped fundamental pitch, at least, to ring in sympathy, but IT DOESN'T WORK.


Perhaps Production Voices can comment on this, or release an update to fix things. Otherwise I assume it's the same for the full version too....???

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757313
08/10/18 07:19 AM
08/10/18 07:19 AM
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Cinjero Offline OP
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First Impressions...

(No I am not Jason, just to make that clear)

There are 72 RAR files (2gig each, until the last one). Great move to use the download manager (I've used it with other products). So, for myself, it took maybe 45 minutes or less (250 ~ 425mbs) and the downloader also unpacks and installs everything. Next, get the presets from your email link----- pretty easy (pretty much the same setup if you have the Production Grand). Load up Kontakt...

This impression is from only Kontakt, not my DAW where I could add additional speakers----- so with that; the sound is very clean, crisp, sharp. Some same problems with loading a preset (like PG) you might wind uploading everything even though you're only using a few mics; this seems to be caused by turning all the volumes down on unused mics but still loading the samples; just something to be aware of if your system temporarily freezes.

Issues from this:

Quote

1. Cannot play a note silently, no matter how slowly I depress the key.

2. Sympathetic string resonance doesn't really work...
Without sustain pedal, hold down any key like middle C (almost silently!), then briefly strike any related notes in the harmonic series ABOVE or BELOW and they should cause the held-down middle C note's undamped string to start resonating in sympathy at its fundamental or harmonic pitches, depending which note pitch excited their resonance... and you'll hear their resonant ringing continuing as long as you keep holding down the silent middle C key. We all know this, right?!
But on PV Concert Grand Compact, it's not working properly... It only works for notes ABOVE (eg. strike a high C octave ABOVE and you hear that high C's pitch ringing from middle C's undamped harmonic) whereas for any related notes BELOW it doesn't work, eg. strike lower octave C and it should excite middle C's undamped fundamental pitch, at least, to ring in sympathy, but IT DOESN'T WORK.


-1------ Not sure what you mean; slowly eventually there is a faint sound and maintained if held. Of course, pressed harder----- sound is louder.
-2------ As above, I don't believe this is a problem.

In addition, I have both the PG and this compact version----- there "compact" for a reason, hence smaller samples and functionality.

I've only briefly played with the inside (max) and outside (3/4) and it sounds just as good and better than the demos. I think Jason has refined this piano from lessons learned with the C7, I'm pretty impressed anyway.

$149, yeah a good deal.

If there's any specific question---- I can try to test it for anyone.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: propianist] #2757373
08/10/18 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by propianist

1. Cannot play a note silently, no matter how slowly I depress the key.

2. Sympathetic string resonance doesn't really work...

The reason for #1 was that the sympathetic resonance was not working properly with a silent note, so Jason set the minimum velocity at I think 2 - so no silent note, but the sympathetic resonance issue went away. This actually was something I emailed him on in the Production Grand Compact. This is a unique issue with the soundfont in Sforzando and not Kontakt.

For #2, the programming is set to trigger sympathetic resonance only on matching harmonics above the note pressed as you indicate. I can't remember exactly how this is scripted, but it may be easy to change. I'll take a quick look tonight as I also have Concert Grand Compact.

I was initially going to get the Concert Grand LE, but I am a bit ticked off right now on the upgrade policy. When I bought Concert Grand Compact during the launch, the marketing clearly said it would be upgradable to the Kontakt version. After some back and forth emails with Jason, he essentially told me I didn't pay enough to get upgrade pricing, so I was out of luck. Essentially then this is false advertising. He admitted he marketed this poorly, but is holding his ground. I also own 3 other libraries, and not even any consideration for this. I was only looking for a $5 or $10 dollar discount. So at this point, I am not inclined to buy any more products from him since he doesn't seem to honor his commitments. It's really a matter of principle to me and not the money here being asked for. Other developers I have bought from have always stepped up and did the right thing. So pretty mad at the moment on this.

I've spent a lot of time with CGC and as far as the sound quality in various compositions (working on Debussy Reverie currently), I find the bass a smidge weaker then some of my other vsts. It has quite a hard attack which takes away a bit in terms of delicacy. There are some upper notes, especially at forte levels that have excessive metallic ringing. Other than this, the sound is very clear, almost clinical, with good stereo presentation.

Given my current state of mind and from comments I read here and elsewhere, I am inclined to spend my money (and ssd space) on the Embertone Walker once I know the pedalling and other issues have been addressed.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: bsntn99] #2757407
08/10/18 01:13 PM
08/10/18 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bsntn99

I was initially going to get the Concert Grand LE, but I am a bit ticked off right now on the upgrade policy. When I bought Concert Grand Compact during the launch, the marketing clearly said it would be upgradable to the Kontakt version. After some back and forth emails with Jason, he essentially told me I didn't pay enough to get upgrade pricing, so I was out of luck. Essentially then this is false advertising. He admitted he marketed this poorly, but is holding his ground. I also own 3 other libraries and not even any consideration for this. I was only looking for a $5 or $10 dollar discount. So at this point, I am not inclined to buy any more products from him since he doesn't seem to honor his commitments. It's really a matter of principle to me and not the money here being asked for. Other developers I have bought from have always stepped up and did the right thing. So pretty mad at the moment on this.


bsntn99
PayPal dispute helps well in such cases. I've opened cases on PayPal several times. Works just great. Human has to hold responsibility for his words. But be ready to prove all stated with email screenshots etc.
Open a dispute and inform the Pianoworld community about the progress.


Casio PX-350
Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyerdynamic DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757437
08/10/18 02:38 PM
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Thanks Max Forte, but this is really not something I want to get into as the dollars are pretty insignificant here and probably would come across as very petty on my part if not already. I understand Jason's position that he has to recoup the money spent on developing CGC and that the intro price was very cheap, but I think myself and others are getting to the point where we buy many products from a developer and expect some acknowledgement of our loyalty. Not looking for a freebie, just some way of saying thanks for supporting us over the years. There have been some discussions over at vi-control on this topic. Just venting my frustration here which I probably shouldn't.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757449
08/10/18 02:55 PM
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Hi bsntn99,

Did you perhaps buy PV Concert Grand Compact back when it was crazy cheap at launch like $19....?
If so, I think you've probably already had all the discount you're ever gonna get - more than most people!!! Remember many other people will have paid the full $99 retail price for Compact in the later inbetween months, before it went back on sale again, so PV has to maybe compensate those people some money back to tempt them to upgrade. Especially because their pricing has fluctuated down and up and down so much even 80% discount in a short space of time, and customers will feel a bit ripped off if they've paid far more than others, then see it back on sale again afterwards. Annoying.

I myself paid $44 (= £ 34.65 GBP ) sale price recently (end of July) and am pretty happy with it as a Steinway D multisample for that price. Can't complain, except for those two aforementioned issues...

1. Cannot depress a key silently, no matter how slowly I move the key.
2. Sympathetic string resonance doesn't work for notes below, only for notes above.

Thank you for confirming those two issues DO exist in the full Kontakt version.
And obviously you understand, like I do, why these unrealistic behaviour bugs are a serious issue which would bother a pianist, if they're used to acoustic pianos or other nice stage pianos / software libraries that work right - and indeed, many do; it's one of the first basic quality tests I'll do with any new digital piano I try.

I think the Soundcloud factory demos sounded okay - not blown away - but not sure if I need dozens of mic perspectives at a 300GB size. Storage is expensive when you're running Samsung 960 Pro NVMe SSD drives!
I'm normally suck a sucker for Steinway D libraries I would have jumped in head first and bought the max spec version, but having downloaded the free Compact demo first, then being promised a financially fair upgrade route, I just decided to start at the cheapest option first this time, as I've bought three or four software libraries this year already which I've been far less than 100% impressed with.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: bsntn99] #2757465
08/10/18 03:53 PM
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Is it possible to resell Production Voices' VSTis? If I don't like it, what can I do? Is there license transfer policy? I know EU laws force all vendors to allow license transfers, but what if they refuse?


Casio PX-350
Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyerdynamic DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757474
08/10/18 04:14 PM
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Yeah the upgrade policy isn't what you would expect as a long time customer, but on the other hand I can also kind of understand it. As ProPianist said, getting the Concert Grand Compact for 20$ is more of a discount than the introductory price for the LE edition would grant its buyer. I think the developer just wants to avoid giving away too much for a way too low price.

From what I understand, the upgrade policy is that, as an owner of Concert Grand Compact, you get a discount for the price you paid for it, minus 20$. These 20$ are conveniently just the amount that the Compact Edition cost on its first day release special sale. When I first saw that I was a bit mad, but then I understood that, had I actually paid or would I pay the full price for both the Compact and LE/Gold editions, I would have paid twice the full full retail price. So that made it easier to accept.

I have only seen a couple of short videos from the developer, and he doesn't come off maliciously in any way to me. He rather seems a bit reserved. I don't know, it doesn't seem like he is trying to mislead people. In his case, I'd personally give him the benefit of the doubt but I also don't know much about him either.

@Max Forte
I don't know about the license transfer policy, but you might want to consider this (from the terms and conditions page):

"Production Voices samples have been watermarked with a unique ID code identifying you as the user. Any illegal copying and distribution of these files will result in legal action."
https://www.productionvoices.com/terms-and-conditions/

On the product page of the Concert Grand it says that you have to backup your files on your own. I assume that you won't be given more download codes in the future. Considering the section quoted above it makes sense: The samples must probably be rendered or produced every time for each individual buyer, and then served to him.
So if you ever transfered your license, and if he would refuse to render new sample files (for the simple reason that it said so on the product page), your buyer would have your ID Code in the files, tieing you to those files. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me because then you have no more control over what happens with that and that would open the door for a lot of unpleasant possibilities.

Last edited by Grazilerimba; 08/10/18 04:17 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Grazilerimba] #2757486
08/10/18 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
your buyer would have your ID Code in the files, tieing you to those files. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me because then you have no more control over what happens with that and that would open the door for a lot of unpleasant possibilities.

Sure,
That's why I asked about the legal license transfer.

But I think some vendors force users to act as they think they are right.


Casio PX-350
Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyerdynamic DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757495
08/10/18 05:15 PM
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Thanks for the first impressions review, Cinjero. Quick question: how similar is the overall sound/feel of this to the Compact version? Obviously this will be more flexible with the different mic settings, but would you say the Concert Grand Compact is representative of the full versions?

Looking forward to reading more reviews here. The demos sound more or less okay, if nothing particularly special, but we all know that sound demos can be highly misleading so I'm not putting much store by them. I'm not generally a fan of the PV style, so I'm not sure this is for me, but I'm somewhat curious. I picked up the Concert Grand Compact dirt cheap for $19 (so no upgrade discount for me either!), which was fine for the money but had some serious flaws that I described much earlier in the thread. If the full versions are similar, but with more mic settings, then I might take a pass. If they're significantly better, though, it might be worth a punt for the LE verison.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: karvala] #2757513
08/10/18 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by karvala
Thanks for the first impressions review, Cinjero. Quick question: how similar is the overall sound/feel of this to the Compact version? Obviously this will be more flexible with the different mic settings, but would you say the Concert Grand Compact is representative of the full versions?


I would say the compact version is just that---- maybe a tease, a sample of the beast beneath while the full version is the beast in all its glory. The sound is simply louder, rich and full--- em, like a piano. :-)

Unfortunately, I would have to review this like some pre-Production Grands (C7) I have---- this is really good---- to wow, now that is some power. hehe, Eh, the Prius was nice, but the Mustang Shelby---- yeah. lol

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: bsntn99] #2757541
08/10/18 08:41 PM
08/10/18 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bsntn99

I was initially going to get the Concert Grand LE, but I am a bit ticked off right now on the upgrade policy. When I bought Concert Grand Compact during the launch, the marketing clearly said it would be upgradable to the Kontakt version. After some back and forth emails with Jason, he essentially told me I didn't pay enough to get upgrade pricing, so I was out of luck. Essentially then this is false advertising. He admitted he marketed this poorly, but is holding his ground. I also own 3 other libraries, and not even any consideration for this. I was only looking for a $5 or $10 dollar discount. So at this point, I am not inclined to buy any more products from him since he doesn't seem to honor his commitments. It's really a matter of principle to me and not the money here being asked for. Other developers I have bought from have always stepped up and did the right thing. So pretty mad at the moment on this.

I've spent a lot of time with CGC and as far as the sound quality in various compositions (working on Debussy Reverie currently), I find the bass a smidge weaker then some of my other vsts. It has quite a hard attack which takes away a bit in terms of delicacy. There are some upper notes, especially at forte levels that have excessive metallic ringing. Other than this, the sound is very clear, almost clinical, with good stereo presentation.

Given my current state of mind and from comments I read here and elsewhere, I am inclined to spend my money (and ssd space) on the Embertone Walker once I know the pedalling and other issues have been addressed.


I agree.

As a compact owner, I was also embarrassed about the rationality of pricing upgrades to LE. It is technically the price is not an "upgrade" price. I inquired of him, but his answer was obvious. Especially I waited for a year for PV's Concert Grand launch though the release is delayed continuously. On account of my great expectations of the release, disappointment is also big regardless of the quality of Concert Grand.
I'll buy a full version of Embertone like you, maybe.

Last edited by angmyu; 08/10/18 08:48 PM.

Garritan CFX full, VI Labs Ravenscroft 275, VI Labs True Keys, EWQL Pianos Platinum, PV Studio Grand LE, PV Concert Grand Compact, WS 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand, VSL Vienna Imperial, VSL Yamaha CFX Full, UVI Grand Piano Collection, AS C7 Grand, Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D Lite
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757544
08/10/18 08:58 PM
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I may be unfair to throw Jason under the bus, especially when he's not the driver, just the sound engineer who works for a company; which in turn needs to make currency.

I'd agree that some of the "promises" fell short; for instance a discount to Production Grand owners---- I don't recall being asked/contacted with any discount, yet it was probably in the fine print: contact customer support (yet oddly it appears only to be Jason).

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: propianist] #2757565
08/10/18 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by propianist

1. Cannot depress a key silently, no matter how slowly I move the key.
2. Sympathetic string resonance doesn't work for notes below, only for notes above.

I had a chance to play around a bit tonight with CGC. For #1, I was able to set a silent key by setting the minimum velocity to 2 for every appropriate sample in the script. This means a light touch equals a velocity of 1 and no sample plays. But, if you hit a correct harmonic, you will get the sympathetic resonance. The problem with Product Grand Compact is when this was set up like this and you released the key, the sympathetic resonance would continue to play. This does not seem to be an issue with the Concert Grand Compact.

I checked for #2 and sympathetic resonance is set up to play at 1x8va, 1x8va+fifth, 2x8va, 2x8va+fifth, and 3x8va above the note. So five resonances per note possible. I checked my CA-95 and the resonances trigger at one adjacent note above and below, octaves above and below, and some mixture of thirds, fourths, and fifths It is possible to add this programming, but is quite a bit of work. Not sure how the Kontakt version will be set up.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757596
08/11/18 05:52 AM
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Thank you bsntn99.

Re: number 1.
I don't suppose you could elaborate, or walk us through exactly what you did editing the script, or where we find the relevant line entry to edit? Do you mean edit the sfz file in a text editor like notepad?
I'd like to have a little play around with it for myself - out of curiosity.

Re: number 2
Yes, my Kawai MP8 does the same, above and below and immediate chromatic neighbours. Actually the chromatic notes are rather annoying - real piano's don't do that!!!!
But obviously if you're hold a big juicy right hand chord and playing some bouncy staccato bass notes underneath it, you want each bass note to excite a bunch of resonant harmonics from the held chord, which PV Concert Grand is NOT doing, so it sounds unrealistic to me.
I could maybe forgive the cut-price Compact version, in Sforzando, because I know it's meant to be a limited, streamlined version without all the features, possible to lure you to pay for full-price version, but if even the main Kontakt version can't do it properly, I think it's a pretty poor show from P.V. and they need to fix it ASAP. I won't buy it otherwise, that's for sure.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757642
08/11/18 10:30 AM
08/11/18 10:30 AM
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That upgrade scheme from Production Voices Compact Grand was rather misleading.

But Jason is a music guy without corporate infrastructure so I will give him some leeway relating to areas outside his core skills, including: marketing, customer service, and finance.

I can understand how some people may be upset but I don't think Jason did this with any bad intentions or malice. This is a minor blunder which could (and probably should) be remedied easily. Regardless, my $20 CGC "investment" gave me a good "feel" for the piano; it is an unexpected sunk cost but I'm not going to hold a grudge there and just move on.

At the end of the day, I find the $99 introductory price for a 16/44.1 piano which I have tested (and quite liked in early beta form) a compelling offer.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: propianist] #2757643
08/11/18 10:31 AM
08/11/18 10:31 AM
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bsntn99 Offline
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Originally Posted by propianist

Re: number 1.
I don't suppose you could elaborate, or walk us through exactly what you did editing the script, or where we find the relevant line entry to edit? Do you mean edit the sfz file in a text editor like notepad?
I'd like to have a little play around with it for myself - out of curiosity.

Yes, I am talking about editing the sfz file in the programs folder. First, back this file up somewhere safe. Then, open in a text editor. I just use wordpad in windows usually. Globally replace lovel=0 with lovel=2. This affects all the lowest velocity samples which I think is the right way to go. Now save the file back. Do not use "save as" since this will change the file format potentially to something other than sfz and cannot then be read. Now, open in Sforzando and test. As always make sure you have a back up of your install package in case things go horribly wrong. If you have problems, PM me so as to not take up too much space here.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757650
08/11/18 10:58 AM
08/11/18 10:58 AM
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I'm sure you're both aware, but as an alternative in case you don't want to change the instrument files (which is probably the most elegant solution), it is very quick and straightforward (=30 seconds), if you don't mind using an intermediary host such as Savihost, to remap input values below your choice of lowest sounding input velocity (e.g. 3) to an output of 'off', which will have the same effect.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757660
08/11/18 12:52 PM
08/11/18 12:52 PM
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In the strictest sense of the word, the upgrade scheme was indeed misleading, as it implied that customers would get the price of the Compact subtracted when upgrading to the full version.

Then it can be said that the first $20 of the price paid for the Compact, not being subtractable towards the full Concert Grand, is not a big deal, excluding customers buying it for $19 from the additional discount.

That includes myself (in that exclusion!) since I got the Compact at the lowest $19, which was in and of itself a good deal, and I don't regret going for it.

Maybe Jason can say - or meant - that the price for Compact would qualify as discount for the full version, at it's full price.

If we see it that way, Jason has actually delivered more than he promised. Concert Grand LE is discounted $50, and Gold is down $100. I don't see any info on the biggest full version.

Then you can subtract [price paid for Compact - $20] = up to $79 more discount. I hope I don't owe Jason one dollar. cool

Last edited by TheodorN; 08/11/18 12:53 PM.

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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757720
08/11/18 04:51 PM
08/11/18 04:51 PM
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just felt like chiming in.
let me first say that I like reading all of what you guys post.
so not meaning anything negative against any of you at all.
ok, that said:
I bought a library from Jason last year.
he was extremely nice.
he went the extra mile and then some to help me.
also, I too bought Concert Grand Compact for $19.
and would not get any discount on upgrading to the newly released full library.
(I could have got 5% off on the first day, but I didn't.)
and thats all I have to say. which I'll repeat.
I think Jason is a super cool, very good guy.
and I'm guessing that I will be buying Concert Grand Gold soon.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: karvala] #2757722
08/11/18 05:12 PM
08/11/18 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by karvala
I'm sure you're both aware, but as an alternative in case you don't want to change the instrument files (which is probably the most elegant solution), it is very quick and straightforward (=30 seconds), if you don't mind using an intermediary host such as Savihost, to remap input values below your choice of lowest sounding input velocity (e.g. 3) to an output of 'off', which will have the same effect.

Unfortunately it's not that easy if you want to have silent key functionality and still have the resonances respond appropriately. You really need to get under the hood and do what I outlined. It only took me a couple of seconds using global replace. Currently the vst treats any velocity as a note on and plays the note. If you set certain velocities to note off with remapping, then the resonances will not respond as the sound engine sees the note as off.

You need the sound engine to see the note as on, but not play the sample. Having the sample only play with a velocity of 2 or higher means with a velocity of 1 (very light touch), the sound engine sees the note as on, so resonances play, but the sample on that key will not play, thus silent key.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2757747
08/11/18 07:01 PM
08/11/18 07:01 PM
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Yeah, that's a good point about the resonances; they wouldn't work with velocity remapped to 'off'. Your method is definitely preferable.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: propianist] #2758133
08/13/18 10:50 AM
08/13/18 10:50 AM
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Boylan Offline
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Originally Posted by propianist
Hi bsntn99,

1. Cannot depress a key silently, no matter how slowly I move the key.



Changing the preset to Authentic Dynamic or changing the touch response to 100 fixes that, at least on my kit. Don't know if it helps with the resonance issue that's been raised. Maybe you'd still need to change the velocity to 2.

As for the upgrade discussion. I paid $19! At that price I'm not complaining about anything. I did assume that the $19 would go towards an upgrade should I chose that path, but as I don't have Kontakt and won't be buying it - sooner put the money towards a real piano - it would have to be a sforzando upgrade. Add a mic or two to that and I would pay for it.

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