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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708388
01/25/18 12:57 PM
01/25/18 12:57 PM
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Aberdeen, UK
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Rychubil Offline
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I already got info from Production Voices Support, that is an American version of Steinway D.
Shame, I want a German.

Last edited by rychubil; 01/25/18 01:00 PM.

Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: David B] #2708426
01/25/18 03:18 PM
01/25/18 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by newer player


Upgradeable to the full version of Concert Grand:
Concert Grand Compact is upgradable to the full version of Concert Grand (when available), should you purchase Native Instruments Kontakt at a later time. If you are a Concert Grand Compact registered user wishing to upgrade to the full Concert Grand (not yet available), please contact support and request the upgrade.


Will the full version use sforzando or some other sofware? What is Kontakt and what does is have to do with your Concert Grand Samples? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

No, obviously full version use Native instruments Kontakt program. NI Kontakt is a sampler and home for lots of sample libraries. Through NI Kontakt you can load and play piano and lots of other instruments. Kontakt is a industry standard for sample libraries. Unfortunately you must buy it separately from instrument.

Last edited by slobajudge; 01/25/18 03:23 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: slobajudge] #2708475
01/25/18 05:23 PM
01/25/18 05:23 PM
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toddy Offline
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Originally Posted by David B


Will the full version use sforzando or some other software? What is Kontakt and what does is have to do with your Concert Grand Samples? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

No, obviously full version use Native instruments Kontakt program.


Why is it obvious? There is a tendency for some major developers to circumvent Kontakt with their own platform. Sample Modelling (or a faction thereof) is a good example of this with their SWAM engine. The sfortzando player is somewhat similar to the Garritan CFX platform - indeed the cfx can be loaded into either player.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: toddy] #2708483
01/25/18 05:47 PM
01/25/18 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by toddy
[ The sfortzando player is somewhat similar to the Garritan CFX platform - indeed the cfx can be loaded into either player.


Indeed, they're both based on Plogue.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: toddy] #2708485
01/25/18 05:49 PM
01/25/18 05:49 PM
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Portland, OR, USA
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Osho Offline
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Originally Posted by David B


Will the full version use sforzando or some other software? What is Kontakt and what does is have to do with your Concert Grand Samples? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

No, obviously full version use Native instruments Kontakt program.


Why is it obvious?


Because it says so on the page:

https://www.productionvoices.com/product/concert-grand-compact/

Quote

Upgradeable to the full version of Concert Grand:
Concert Grand Compact is upgradable to the full version of Concert Grand (when available), should you purchase Native Instruments Kontakt at a later time. If you are a Concert Grand Compact registered user wishing to upgrade to the full Concert Grand (not yet available), please contact support and request the upgrade.

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Osho] #2708491
01/25/18 05:59 PM
01/25/18 05:59 PM
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toddy Offline
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Originally Posted by Osho


Because it says so on the page:



Ahh well. That is obvious enough!


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708507
01/25/18 06:41 PM
01/25/18 06:41 PM
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Post from another forum. Not sure of what the price will be at the official public launch.

"I am very excited to announce the release of Concert Grand Compact to you, our customers and subscribers ahead of the official public launch! I couldn't have made this Steinway D piano sample library without your input, feedback and support. So, what better way to thank you than to give you the best pricing and first access to Concert Grand Compact!
Starting today, Thursday January 25th, the sale begins. I will update the price each day. Hurry to get the best pricing early in the sale.

7 Day Sale:
Day 1: $19
Day 2: $29
Day 3: $29
Day 4: $34
Day 5: $39
Day 6: $44
Day 7: $49

Concert Grand Compact retails for $99. This is an excellent opportunity to save up to 80% if you get it early."

In any event, I already bought it and played a bit with it this morning. Compared to the Production Grand Compact, the sound is not as bright (no surprise), more full bodied and warm, especially in the lower registers. The hammer attack is discernible on each note whereas it is not as noticeable with PGC. I would say the hammer attack is a smidge more noticeable than the Grandeur or Vintage D. Overall, the library is very clear and unprocessed sounding.

Note to note timbre is very even across the entire range with nothing standing out. Appears this piano was is good condition and well set up. PGC had a number of notes that stood out with artifacts either due to hammer wear or other noises.

I did not come across any of the same issues with notes dropping out or sympathetic resonance sticking as with PGC (note Jason has an updated script in process which I tested that addresses these in PGC). The only issue I found was with trills or repetitions with the sustain pedal down, there is a significant release tail when you release the pedal that should not be there. This should be easily fixable in the script.

Overall, I think prefer the Concert Grand Compact over PGC. I hope to play around more tonight and compare it to some of my other libraries.

Last edited by bsntn99; 01/25/18 06:42 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708518
01/25/18 07:03 PM
01/25/18 07:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
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Thanks bsntn99 - that was enough of a kick to get me to drop 19$.

Downloading now - only 2.7GB

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708526
01/25/18 07:29 PM
01/25/18 07:29 PM
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I've downloaded it as well; not time to install it yet, but will try to do so later, or else tomorrow. I'm a bit concerned with all the messages warning us about imperfect "real" piano sounds and piano noises; I'm bracing myself for a rather distant and noisy sound, but we'll see!


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708532
01/25/18 07:49 PM
01/25/18 07:49 PM
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Joined the club. Won't have time to download and install until next week probably, and have sore eczema hands right now, so I can hardly play. I'm not really looking for a new piano VST, but because of this low starting price I pulled the trigger, out of curiosity mostly.

I like playing with those lightweight VSTis, even more than the big ones, because of the fast loading time, yet quite a lot of tweaking possibilities, especially in the case of the Production Voices libraries. Reaper gives me the chance to add EQ, so the minimal interface of Sforzando is not a big problem.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708554
01/25/18 08:40 PM
01/25/18 08:40 PM
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Aberdeen, UK
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I downloaded it as well for curiosity wink I install tomorrow hopefully


Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708557
01/25/18 08:48 PM
01/25/18 08:48 PM
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ca ching... very nice, I'm sure the full version will be even more impressive.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708562
01/25/18 08:58 PM
01/25/18 08:58 PM
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Okay, rapid first impressions based on 30 minutes playing. It's another Production Voices piano, and it sounds like another Production Voices piano. Whether or not you think that's a good thing will depend on your opinion of their previous products. It has far more common in with the Production Grand Compact (and Yamaha C7 they did) than any other Steinway D sample I have. That's not to say it doesn't sound like a Steinway D - it clearly does and that's good - but the style of recording is the dominant feature. It's distant, which is partly because it's the outside mic perspective of course, but partly also the house style judging from their other instruments.

The good:-
(1) It sounds like a Steinway D.
(2) There is, always with their instruments, good clarity of individual tones i.e. minimal smudging; this and the distinctive timbre is sign of a good attack sample.
(3) It more or less works out of the box without any *huge* flaws (but see below).

The bad:-
(1) It sounds distant and veiled; it feels much more like playing a recording of a piano than playing an actual piano.
(2) The upper register is hugely underpowered; more generally there are significant balance issues across the keyboard which undermine dynamic control and clarity. Some areas are audibly louder than others.
(3) There seems to be an issue with pedal on/off samples, such that when releasing pedal and keys more or less simultaneously, you get a sudden increase in volume (presumably when the pedal off release samples kick in, and indicating that they are significantly louder for the same velocity layers, which is a significant flaw. Dialling down the release samples seems to help a bit.

I'll give more detailed impressions when I've had time to play it a lot more, but that's the initial impression. £13.79 (which is what I paid) is less than I've paid for a pizza in the past, so I can't complain. If I'd spent $99 on it, I wouldn't be too happy.

If you're thinking of buying it, ask yourself if you like their previous offerings. If you do, and you like a Steinway D sound, you'll probably like this. If you don't, then you probably won't.

Last edited by karvala; 01/25/18 08:59 PM.

Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: karvala] #2708567
01/25/18 09:17 PM
01/25/18 09:17 PM
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Aberdeen, UK
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Rychubil Offline
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Originally Posted by karvala

£13.79 (which is what I paid) is less than I've paid for a pizza in the past, so I can't complain.

laugh laugh laugh
Absolutely right! Me too, I paid £13.79, less than today's shopping in The Morrisons wink
...but !!!
I read on email from PV, that this version expiry on 1st February 2018 frown

Last edited by rychubil; 01/25/18 09:55 PM.

Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708578
01/25/18 09:52 PM
01/25/18 09:52 PM
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Hopefully, more reviews will come in tonight. $19 is ridiculously cheap, but if I won't use it? ...


Roland FP-90; Yamaha MX49; Pianoteq 5 + most add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X; Focusrite Saffire 2i2; For performing: Yamaha PSR-S970; FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708583
01/25/18 10:38 PM
01/25/18 10:38 PM
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Orange County, California
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Probably a silly question, but I'm guessing I can get this and the free player and use it similar to Pianoteq?


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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708587
01/25/18 10:57 PM
01/25/18 10:57 PM
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The player is free, so you are only playing $19 today for the Concert Grand Compact, that's it. Now Pianoteq has way more adjustability, but is a lot more expensive.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708618
01/26/18 01:16 AM
01/26/18 01:16 AM
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Quick first impression - generally very playable and responsive. Nice value @ 19$ if you would like to sample a well-recorded Steinway D.

Concert Grand Compact mid-mics (M149) respond a bit like the Garritan CFX with close-mics only (M49/KM184). Concert Grand Compact sounds a bit more distant (probably due to outside placement) and a bit more rogue. The pianos, prep, recording and room are rather different (obviously, I suppose).

Concert Grand Compact loads quickly and seems to run efficiently (say 44.1khz with a buffer of 48 on my mid-tier laptop). Unselecting the yellow lights under "key noise", "pedal noise" etc. (Controls tab) might boost performance if you have dropouts.

I tested with two good headphones and some consumer monitors/with a sub. Tomorrow, I will try a bit of reverb etc. in Reaper DAW.

Technical note - Concert Grand Compact has 96khz recordings downsampled to 44.1khz. Sforzando Free might have a minor quirk so running sample rate at 44.1khz might provide best sound quality / lowest noise.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708656
01/26/18 04:03 AM
01/26/18 04:03 AM
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I took the plunge.

I don't like it. There's some seriously jarring velocity switching going on; one or two are utterly bizarre in soft playing.

No half pedal so I just turned the noises down.

Latency. Small but certainly very noticeable and I felt quite disconnected from it. I'm no VST veteran but I do have PianoTeq, which tonally I have come to truly hate. But it just worked utterly intuitively from the outset and the sense of connection is entirely comparable to playing a DP's native sounds. I use a Macbook Pro, 8GB RAM with SSD. So I can't imagine the computer is the issue. I used all their recommended settings.

The actual sound of the piano is nice although it is a bit brighter than I expected it to be. I think the sustain and resonances are rather good but I'll never fire it up again due mainly to the latency.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Korg G1 Air |
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: EssBrace] #2708731
01/26/18 05:31 AM
01/26/18 05:31 AM
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Aberdeen, UK
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What does it mean "Expires - 1 February 2018"?
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/mIrr3ZP


Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Rychubil] #2708738
01/26/18 06:15 AM
01/26/18 06:15 AM
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toddy Offline
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Originally Posted by rychubil
What does it mean "Expires - 1 February 2018"?
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/mIrr3ZP


The file will no longer be available for download after that date.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708742
01/26/18 06:31 AM
01/26/18 06:31 AM
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Thanks toddy smile


Roland FP-30, PV - Compact Grand, Kurzweil PC361, Yamaha Reface CP, Roland CM-110, ATH-M50X, Roland Quad capture, Cornet Olds Ambasador, Trumpet Getzen Bravura 98B.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2708745
01/26/18 07:11 AM
01/26/18 07:11 AM
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Sweden
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Originally Posted by karvala
(3) There seems to be an issue with pedal on/off samples, such that when releasing pedal and keys more or less simultaneously, you get a sudden increase in volume (presumably when the pedal off release samples kick in, and indicating that they are significantly louder for the same velocity layers, which is a significant flaw. Dialling down the release samples seems to help a bit.

This is exactly what happens with PV Kawai Estate Grand for Sforzando, and I've talked about it before. A bit irritating, that twirp which barks at you when releasing pedal and keys. This does not happen in the Kontakt versions of PV Studio Grand LE, and not in Prod. Grand 2 Gold, which leads me to conclude this is a Sforzando related problem, in the PV scripting.

Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Probably a silly question, but I'm guessing I can get this and the free player and use it similar to Pianoteq?

The similarity is also that you can load MIDI files into Sforzando, and record as audio (not MIDI like in Pianoteq) what you play. Apart from Pianoteq, Sforzando libraries and Garritan CFX, which is based on the same Aria engine as Sforzando, are the only VSTis I know of, in which you can record audio and play MIDI files.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: EssBrace] #2708802
01/26/18 11:10 AM
01/26/18 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
There's some seriously jarring velocity switching going on; one or two are utterly bizarre in soft playing.

The actual sound of the piano is nice although it is a bit brighter than I expected it to be. I think the sustain and resonances are rather good


I also thought the overall sound was good. I didn't find it quite so jarring but hear a bit of mic phasing which is tough to address with only a mic pair just outside the piano. Plus there are no ambient mics to mix in some room smoothness. I will run this in my DAW and add some reverb or room effects and see how that helps...

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Latency. Small but certainly very noticeable and I felt quite disconnected from it. I'm no VST veteran but I do have PianoTeq, which tonally I have come to truly hate. But it just worked utterly intuitively from the outset and the sense of connection is entirely comparable to playing a DP's native sounds. I use a Macbook Pro, 8GB RAM with SSD. So I can't imagine the computer is the issue. I used all their recommended settings.


Funny, I thought the latency performance was quite good and aided by very little dead space at the beginning of the samples.

The recommended settings are rubbish. Please open Sforzando again, click on TOOLS>PREFERENCES.

-- Set "sample rate" to 44.100KHz

-- Set "buffer size" as low as you can get

--Click OK

** You may need to exit Sforzando a few times to reset and lower "buffer size". After a few tries I got it to 48 on a good but not great laptop.

Last edited by newer player; 01/26/18 11:12 AM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: newer player] #2708804
01/26/18 11:14 AM
01/26/18 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Funny, I thought the latency performance was quite good and aided by very little dead space at the beginning of the samples.

The recommended settings are rubbish. Please open Sforzando again, click on TOOLS>PREFERENCES.

-- Set "sample rate" to 44.100KHz

-- Set "buffer size" as low as you can get

--Click OK

** You may need to exit Sforzando a few times to reset and lower "buffer size". After a few tries I got it to 48 on a good but not great laptop.


Okay, many thanks. I'll have a go. My experience with software instruments is almost non-existent.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Korg G1 Air |
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708815
01/26/18 11:45 AM
01/26/18 11:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
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Portugal
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toddy Offline
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Originally Posted by newer player

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Latency. Small but certainly very noticeable and I felt quite disconnected from it. I'm no VST veteran but I do have PianoTeq, which tonally I have come to truly hate. But it just worked utterly intuitively from the outset and the sense of connection is entirely comparable to playing a DP's native sounds. I use a Macbook Pro, 8GB RAM with SSD. So I can't imagine the computer is the issue. I used all their recommended settings.


Funny, I thought the latency performance was quite good and aided by very little dead space at the beginning of the samples.


Depends on which note, and how hard you're playing it. C#2 played forte (but not p or ff) is way behind its neighbours. That is disconcerting and there are other slight inconsistencies - some characterful, others annoying. Apart that, it's got a nice presence this piano, and it is a good companion to the Yamaha C7. Good for €15.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: EssBrace] #2708819
01/26/18 12:03 PM
01/26/18 12:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 801
中国
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newer player Online content
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中国
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Okay, many thanks. I'll have a go. My experience with software instruments is almost non-existent.


EssBrace - ask any questions here or feel free to PM me. Sforzando is good software and easy to use.

Jason incorporated some nice "effects" in the player that are worth checking out. Just click on "snapshot" and pick something like "Classical Recital". (Update to latest Sforzando player if they don't work). Won't do any more tweaking until / unless Jason sends some script updates.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708824
01/26/18 12:13 PM
01/26/18 12:13 PM
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Beakybird Offline
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Does Sforzando work with other VSTs?


Roland FP-90; Yamaha MX49; Pianoteq 5 + most add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X; Focusrite Saffire 2i2; For performing: Yamaha PSR-S970; FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Beakybird] #2708830
01/26/18 12:25 PM
01/26/18 12:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,592
France
Frédéric L Offline
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Frédéric L  Offline
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France
Originally Posted by Beakybird
Does Sforzando work with other VSTs?

What do you mean ?

Sforzando is a VST, and the DAW can load many VST, but this is a characteristic of the DAW, not Sforzando which won’t be aware of the other VSTs.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2708835
01/26/18 12:34 PM
01/26/18 12:34 PM
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karvala Offline
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That's correct, but just to be clear in case the meaning of the question was slightly different, Sforzando can load some other software pianos - essentially anything in aria format. Some old soundfont-based pianos (going back to the early 2000s) can also be converted and used in it. So, for example, the Garritan CFX actually works fine in it, because it's also based on Plogue's aria player. By contrast, you can't load anything that uses UVI Workstation or Kontakt Player, because they're in a different format.

Last edited by karvala; 01/26/18 12:35 PM.

Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
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