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#2654682 - 06/18/17 07:56 PM How to play 32nd notes  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 186
ClassicalMan Offline
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ClassicalMan  Offline
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USA
Can someone help me with recommended technique for playing 32nd notes. I know how they work but maybe there's a better way. For 8ths, it's 1 and 2 and 3 and 4, 16ths, 1 e and a 2 e and a .... but I don't think playing the notes as fast as one can is the ideal technique as I read someplace.
Thanks in advance.


The thought of eternal efflorescence of music is a comforting one, and comes like a messenger of peace in the midst of universal disturbance--Roman Rolland, Musicians of Former Days

Vast untapped resources lie within.
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#2654687 - 06/18/17 08:23 PM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: ClassicalMan]  
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Arghhh Offline
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Arghhh  Offline
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I'm not aware of any counting method for 32nd notes. If the counting is tricky enough, I may count eighth notes instead of quarter notes, so you would be saying 1 e & a for 32nd notes, 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and for 16th notes, and 1, 2, 3, 4 for eighth notes.

Is there a specific section of a piece you are asking for?

#2654691 - 06/18/17 08:43 PM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: Arghhh]  
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ClassicalMan Offline
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Thanks Arghhh, there is no specific piece. It's just that I am thinking about an approach for music in which there are many 32nd notes, virtuoso pieces. I like your approach. It seems you are applying a quarter note beat to an 8th, a 8th note to a 16th, and a 16th note duration to a 32nd note. That would simply mean if I slow down the pieces to cut time I guess, it'll make sense then gradually speed up as the notes are harnessed and I'm more comfortable with it. Maybe a metronome is the solution here.


The thought of eternal efflorescence of music is a comforting one, and comes like a messenger of peace in the midst of universal disturbance--Roman Rolland, Musicians of Former Days

Vast untapped resources lie within.
#2654774 - 06/19/17 08:38 AM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: ClassicalMan]  
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malkin Offline
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*sigh* Salt Lake City
Subdivide.


Having power is not nearly as important as what you choose to do with it.
– Roald Dahl

#2654781 - 06/19/17 08:55 AM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: ClassicalMan]  
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Groove On Offline
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The whole 1 e & a 2 e counting method doesn't work well for me. I can effectively sub-divide to 1 & 2.

If I have to sub-divide smaller I found it much more effective to break down groups of 3 and 4 notes into a simply monosyllabic rhythm (ta ta ta OR ta ta ta ta). It's so much easier to handle in the moment, ditch the 'counting' and just play the notes to those simple rhythms. You can also read through sheet music and tap out the rhythms for practice before you play the notes..

(if your a Doctor Who fan, there's an episode where the sound of the Master's two hearts becomes a recurring clue to what's coming up - there's this constant droning rhythm ta ta ta ta - ta ta ta ta. Not sure if they were quarter, 8th or 16th notes).


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
#2654788 - 06/19/17 09:16 AM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: ClassicalMan]  
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Charles Cohen  Offline
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Richmond, BC, Canada
Rather than monosyllabic (ta ta ta ta), try "ti ka ta ka". If you set your metronome to 60 bpm, you should be able to say "ti ka ta ka" _evenly_ on each beat. Just start playing along with that, any note pattern -- c-d-e-f works fine.

If the "ti ka ta ka" are 32nd notes, the metronome is beating 8th notes. You're playing at "1/4 note = 30" bpm.

Then _gradually_ speed up the metronome.

This is possible without a metronome, but the machine will keep you honest, and even.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2654874 - 06/19/17 03:43 PM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: ClassicalMan]  
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ClassicalMan Offline
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ClassicalMan  Offline
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Thanks guys...I'm open to anyone else who wants to chime in their personal or unknown to us, unique technique.


The thought of eternal efflorescence of music is a comforting one, and comes like a messenger of peace in the midst of universal disturbance--Roman Rolland, Musicians of Former Days

Vast untapped resources lie within.
#2654922 - 06/19/17 06:33 PM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: ClassicalMan]  
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Eric399 Offline
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I thought about what I have learnt - a sort of rhythm language, of which there are quite a few. The one I like best goes ta - ta - ta - ta for quarter notes. Eighth notes are spoken tate tate (imagine all of that with German pronunciation!), sixteenth notes are tafatefe tafatefe. So all we need is a little extra syllable that goes between the 16ths. This, unfortunately, I never learned, but I would suggest something that can be spoken quickly, like for example "ga" or "ge". So a whole 4/4 bar full of 32nds would be - (takes a deep breath) -

Tagafagategefege tagafagategefege tagafagategefege tagafagategefege.

I use this with my pupils, some prefer the time-honoured one-e-and-e two-e-and-e (in German, of course....) while others feel more at ease with ta and ta-te. I just noticed that "tate" would be monosyllabic in English..... but I hope you get my drift! :-)

#2655053 - 06/20/17 08:13 AM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: ClassicalMan]  
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AZNpiano Offline
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AZNpiano  Offline
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Orange County, CA
Verbalization is great if you are doing exercises in subdivision. But, ultimately, these subdivisions need to be internalized if you want to be successful at playing music that's rhythmically challenging.

The only time I really use verbalization is in the teaching of polyrhythm.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
#2655068 - 06/20/17 09:07 AM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: ClassicalMan]  
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hreichgott Offline
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Hi ClassicalMan,

In my experience, students usually only count every subdivision out loud when they are first learning to read eighth notes.
Once they have the concept of being able to subdivide a beat into equal parts, then subdividing farther into 16ths doesn't usually require counting every subdivision out loud. Counting "1 and" is usually enough. I know of the "1 e and a" style of counting but I've only ever had one student so far who found it useful.
By the time they encounter 32nds, they have played dozens, maybe hundreds, of pieces with eighths and 16ths and going to 32nds is just more of the same task. They don't need to use any kind of complicated verbal counting for every 32nd note if they understand what they're doing. "1 and" to keep track of the middle of the beat can still be helpful, especially if the beat contains some 32nds and some longer note values, as is common in those classical slow movements mentioned above. (Also helpful if, like you say, the student is just going fast and not playing rhythmically. Knowing what notes fall on the beat is important.)

I wonder if you are trying to introduce repertoire with 32nd notes too early, with a student who hasn't yet played dozens of pieces with eighths and 16ths?

Or if you've just got a student who feels they need a complete system for everything, you could very authoritatively make up your own style of counting and pretend it is the one right way to count 32nds, and your student will be happy laugh


Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com

Working on:
Beethoven, Diabelli Variations
Corigliano, Gazebo Dances
Beethoven, Trio in E flat Op. 70 no. 2
Queen/Buc, Bohemian Rhapsody for piano trio

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
#2655086 - 06/20/17 10:47 AM Re: How to play 32nd notes [Re: ClassicalMan]  
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TimR Offline
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TimR  Offline
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Virginia, USA
An extended number of steady 32cnd notes shouldn't be a challenge to count. What might be difficult are 32cnd notes in combination with other rhythms. Double and triple dotted notes might be examples.

There is always more than one approach to rhythmic accuracy. You can count it. You may have to slow the tempo down by several factors to do so. Or, you can learn it by rote and internalize it. If you do that carefully and accurately, it's probably the best way, more accessibly to you at tempo. But you do have to get it right at first. One way is to notate it and play it back on a computer.

There are syncopated jazz rhythms that I don't have the background for. I could count them if they weren't so fast, but then they aren't played exactly as notated either. I listen hard for how the pros play them, and try to learn them by rote that way.

For most beginners, the total number of rhythms to be mastered is not that large. they should be able to memorize them all.


gotta go practice

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