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#2654814 - 06/19/17 11:55 AM Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives?  
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BananaBarsch Offline
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Hey Guys!

I am going to buy a new digital piano because I am not satisfied with my current P45. One piano I am considering to buy is the CP300.

1. Is the sound still enjoyable to listen to/play or is it completely outdated? Can it compete with digital pianos about the price of the CP300? I mostly play classical music, especially from the romantic era.

2. Is the CP300 too expensive and are there alternatives which are obviously much better? The highest price I am considering to pay is like ~2500€.

3. Where does the sound of pianos like the CP4 come from? If I bought it, would I need to buy speakers to hear the sound? I can't see any speakers on the pictures.

I am not playing on any gigs or something, I just want a high quality digital piano that most of the time will be in my room. Big thanks if you can answer some of the questions!
(Sorry if my english isn't the best haha)

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#2654816 - 06/19/17 12:06 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Dave Horne Offline
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I owned the CP300 and it served me well. It is a monster though.

If you're going to spend €2500 you can certainly buy the Roland RD 2000. (I paid €2350.)

The CP4 has a very good recommendation from a few folks here (though I think the placement of the headphone jack is really stupid).

For €2500 you can buy the top of the line stage piano from any manufacturer. I'd go to a large store and bring a professional set of headphones.



website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#2654820 - 06/19/17 12:23 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Dave Horne]  
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BananaBarsch Offline
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Thanks for your answer. The Roland piano seems very good to me, sounds great. I will for sure go to a music store and check it out! I have one question tho: To hear the sound, do I need to use headphones or external speakers? Are there some kind of internal speakers in that piano, and are they decent?

#2654825 - 06/19/17 12:31 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Pete14 Offline
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The FP-90 is even cheaper than the RD-2000, and it has the same action and physical modeling. It also has on-board speakers.

If it's mostly for piano playing the FP-90 is great. If you need more sounds, functionality, and tweakability than the RD 2000.

The CP-300 is good, but way too old, and therefore over-priced. It's been around for almost a decade, and still Yamaha neither discontinues nor upgrades it. I have no idea what they're thinking with this very capable, yet also very old board.

You could upgrade the CP-300's sound by running something like Pianoteq through its on-board speakers, but you can't upgrade the two-sensor, plastic action. The FP-90 uses wooden sides on the white keys. This makes the keys feel more substantial and less plastiky. Furthermore, the action is finely tuned to the physically modeled sound engine

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#2654826 - 06/19/17 12:35 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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anotherscott Offline
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The CP300 does not have top tier sound and action for the price anymore, not even by Yamaha's own standards. The board has its fans, though, I think mostly because of its powered speaker system, which gives it about the closest thing you can find to a self-contained real piano experience in a board that is still somewhat portable. I guess the new Roland FP90 (which I haven't heard) might be a competitor in that regard. Yamaha themselves would probably say that their CP4 has better piano sound and action than the CP300, for less money, if you don't need a built-in speaker system. As you surmised from the photo, not only does it not have the particularly powerful sound system of the CP300, it doesn't have anything at all.

If you want to stick with something with speakers, besides Roland, the Kawai ES8 is another nice possibility, if you don't need as much out of the internal speakers as the CP300 gives you. If you're willing to consider models without built in speakers, Kawai's best would be the MP11, up in the same "barely portable" weight range as the CP300. Another model that has its fans is the Nord Piano 3, which is unique in having a library of different piano sounds you can download into it.

#2654841 - 06/19/17 01:16 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Dave Horne Offline
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Originally Posted by BananaBarsch
Thanks for your answer. The Roland piano seems very good to me, sounds great. I will for sure go to a music store and check it out! I have one question tho: To hear the sound, do I need to use headphones or external speakers? Are there some kind of internal speakers in that piano, and are they decent?


If you audition _all_ the pianos with the same set of professional headphones, you'll do a better job of comparing one piano against the other.

Even if the piano has built in speakers, use the headphones.

I own an N3 and a RD 2000 and I only use headphones at home.



website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#2654846 - 06/19/17 01:26 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Pete14]  
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anotherscott Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14
The CP-300 is good, but way too old, and therefore over-priced. It's been around for almost a decade, and still Yamaha neither discontinues nor upgrades it. I have no idea what they're thinking with this very capable, yet also very old board.

IIRC, they actually discontinued it at one point, but there was apparently still enough demand for it from their dealers that they put it back into production. (While raising the price from $2k to $2500, I believe.) I have a feeling Yamaha isn't sure why people are still buying it, either. But I guess there was enough demand that it made sense for them to keep making it, but not so much demand that they think its worth the effort/expense of updating it. A 70+ lb self-contained "portable" seems like a niche market... but if the CP300 fits the bill for what someone wants, there's not much competition.

Last edited by anotherscott; 06/19/17 01:32 PM.
#2654858 - 06/19/17 02:27 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: anotherscott]  
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Dave Horne Offline
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I preferred the action of the CP300 over that of the CP5. The CP300 had a heavier action which I personally liked.



website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#2654861 - 06/19/17 02:38 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Dave Horne]  
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anotherscott Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
I preferred the action of the CP300 over that of the CP5. The CP300 had a heavier action which I personally liked.

Yeah, there's always some subjectivity to the action question. But if someone wants newer sounds and the same kind of action as the CP300 (GH), I believe you get that with the CP40 (no speakers) and the P255 (speakers, but not as powerful as what's in the CP300).

#2654880 - 06/19/17 03:58 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Originally Posted by BananaBarsch
Thanks for your answer. The Roland piano seems very good to me, sounds great. I will for sure go to a music store and check it out! I have one question tho: To hear the sound, do I need to use headphones or external speakers? Are there some kind of internal speakers in that piano, and are they decent?

No top-of-the-line stage models have internal speakers. (Roland RD-2000, Nord Piano 3, Kawai MP11, Yamaha CP4) They all require good headphones or speakers (monitors). Monitors cost much more than headphones for the same sound quality.

Last edited by Iaroslav Vasiliev; 06/19/17 04:01 PM.
#2654890 - 06/19/17 04:22 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Iaroslav Vasiliev]  
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Just fell in love with the Roland LX-7 today. That one good some speakers, 2x25W, 2x 7W, that's good, right?

#2654891 - 06/19/17 04:37 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Dave Horne Offline
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Originally Posted by BananaBarsch
Just fell in love with the Roland LX-7 today. That one good some speakers, 2x25W, 2x 7W, that's good, right?


That's more than the €2500 price you initially mentioned.

What a lot of folks here do is look at specifications. The list of the speakers and the amplification say nothing to me, I just go by how it sounds.



website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#2654892 - 06/19/17 04:45 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Originally Posted by BananaBarsch
Just fell in love with the Roland LX-7 today. That one good some speakers, 2x25W, 2x 7W, that's good, right?


LX-7 speaker system is "acoustic projection" and has 6 speakers as follows:

Cabinet Speakers: 25 cm (9-7/8 inches) x 2 (with Speaker Box)
Near-field Speakers: 5 cm (2 inches) x 2
Spatial Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 (with Speaker Box)


“Elizabeth was not playing for the sake of exhibiting her virtuosity: she played for joy.”
― Mary Street, The Confession of Fitzwilliam Darcy
--------------------------------------
Roland LX-7
#2654901 - 06/19/17 05:09 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Dave Horne]  
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BananaBarsch Offline
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The Roland LX-7 BW is exactly 2.499€ on Thomann.de (One of the biggest german music stores).

#2654902 - 06/19/17 05:10 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Doug M. Offline
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Products to check out (top to bottom-->high to low price.

Roland:
**V-piano (stage, old) ---PHAIII action
**RD2000 (stage)---PHA50 action
**RD800 (stage)---PHAIV pro action
**FP90 (portable)---PHA50 action

Kawai
**MP11 (stage)---Grand Feel 1 action
**MP10 (stage, old)---RM3 Grand action
**MP7 (stage)---RHII action
**ES8 (stage)---RHIII action
**VPC1 (piano controller)---RM-3 Grand II action

Yamaha
**CP1 (stage)---NW‑STAGE' hammer‑action
**Montage 8 (synth)---Balanced Hammer Action
**CP4 (stage)---Natural Wood Graded Hammer (NW-GH)
**CP5 (stage)---NW‑STAGE' hammer‑action
**CP40 (stage)---GH keyboard
**P255 (portable)---GH keyboard
**CP300 (portable, old)---GH keyboard

Casio
**PX-560 (stage)---3 Sensors Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II 3 sensitivity levels, offSimulated ebony and ivory keys
**PX-5S (synth)---Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action II
**PX-360 (stage)---3 Sensors Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II 3 sensitivity levels, offSimulated ebony and ivory keys

Nord (Heavily modified Fatar actions)
**Nord Piano 3 (stage)---‘Triple Sensor key bed with improved grand weighted action’ and features Nord’s Virtual Hammer Action Technology
**Nord Piano 2 (stage)--- fully weighted Hammer Action keybed
**Nord Stage 3 (stage)---fully weighted Hammer Action keybed
**Nord Stage 2 EX (stage, old)---fully weighted Hammer Action Keybed

Kurzweil (Fatar actions)
**Forte (stage)---Fatar TP/40L
**Forte SE (stage, light)---Fatar TP/100LR
**Artis (stage)---Fatar TP/100LR
**Artis SE (stage, light)---Fatar TP/100LR

Physis (Custom Fatar)
**H1 (stage)---TP40 Wood, but it is actually a wooden version of TP400.
**K4 (stage, midi controller)---TP40W Wood, Ivory finish , Graded, 3 sensor

Korg
**Kronos 2 (workstation)---RH3 (Real Weighted Hammer Action 3)
**SV-1 (vintage stage)---RH3 (Real Weighted Hammer Action 3)
**Kross (workstation)---NH (Natural Weighted Hammer Action) keyboard

Last edited by Doug M.; 06/19/17 05:10 PM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
#2654904 - 06/19/17 05:12 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Dave Horne Offline
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I now see that there are many flavors of the LX 7.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?bf=&sw=Roland+LX+7



website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#2654905 - 06/19/17 05:14 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Doug M. Offline
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Originally Posted by BananaBarsch
The Roland LX-7 BW is exactly 2.499€ on Thomann.de (One of the biggest german music stores).


The RD2000 and FP-90 have more functionality. The new generation Roland pianos (RD2000, FP-90, LX7/17 etc) will sound very similar via headphones.
Arguably the disappointing thing about the LX-7 is how much better the LX17 sounds: it has a much better speaker/amp system.
Perhaps you should avoid playing the LX17 lol...


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
#2654939 - 06/19/17 07:45 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Doug M.]  
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Products to check out (top to bottom-->high to low price.

Roland:
**V-piano (stage, old) ---PHAIII action
**RD2000 (stage)---PHA50 action
**RD800 (stage)---PHAIV pro action
**FP90 (portable)---PHA50 action

Kawai
**MP11 (stage)---Grand Feel 1 action
**MP10 (stage, old)---RM3 Grand action
**MP7 (stage)---RHII action
**ES8 (stage)---RHIII action
**VPC1 (piano controller)---RM-3 Grand II action

Yamaha
**CP1 (stage)---NW‑STAGE' hammer‑action
**Montage 8 (synth)---Balanced Hammer Action
**CP4 (stage)---Natural Wood Graded Hammer (NW-GH)
**CP5 (stage)---NW‑STAGE' hammer‑action
**CP40 (stage)---GH keyboard
**P255 (portable)---GH keyboard
**CP300 (portable, old)---GH keyboard

Casio
**PX-560 (stage)---3 Sensors Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II 3 sensitivity levels, offSimulated ebony and ivory keys
**PX-5S (synth)---Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action II
**PX-360 (stage)---3 Sensors Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II 3 sensitivity levels, offSimulated ebony and ivory keys

Nord (Heavily modified Fatar actions)
**Nord Piano 3 (stage)---‘Triple Sensor key bed with improved grand weighted action’ and features Nord’s Virtual Hammer Action Technology
**Nord Piano 2 (stage)--- fully weighted Hammer Action keybed
**Nord Stage 3 (stage)---fully weighted Hammer Action keybed
**Nord Stage 2 EX (stage, old)---fully weighted Hammer Action Keybed

Kurzweil (Fatar actions)
**Forte (stage)---Fatar TP/40L
**Forte SE (stage, light)---Fatar TP/100LR
**Artis (stage)---Fatar TP/100LR
**Artis SE (stage, light)---Fatar TP/100LR

Physis (Custom Fatar)
**H1 (stage)---TP40 Wood, but it is actually a wooden version of TP400.
**K4 (stage, midi controller)---TP40W Wood, Ivory finish , Graded, 3 sensor

Korg
**Kronos 2 (workstation)---RH3 (Real Weighted Hammer Action 3)
**SV-1 (vintage stage)---RH3 (Real Weighted Hammer Action 3)
**Kross (workstation)---NH (Natural Weighted Hammer Action) keyboard


This is a really good list. Many of us are hoping to see the Korg Grandstage arrive to market this year or early next. Having the Kronos sound engines trickle down to a more accessibility priced stage piano format would be a nice addition - although Korg hasn't to my knowledge been working on an upgrade to the RH3 which is only just ok when compared to some others on this list, particularly for playing acoustic piano. It's not the worst, there's just better (although I dig playing Rhodes on the SV1).

Regarding the Nord actions - I don't know why people go on about these Fatar actions being modified, or even "heavily modified". Nord has never suggested in any literature that I am aware of that mentions modification of the Fatar TP-100, TP-40, or TP8Os that they order. One would think modification would be a selling point. Now they might keep what exactly they alter or replace or lubricate with space age polymers under wraps. Or they just might stay quiet that they use stock actions from Fatar and let the internet promote hearsay and secret sauce rumors. Now what we have seen is video from inside the Nord factory where they extensively test and calibrate each action to their specifications for their sample sets and sound engines. But so do others, like Kurzweil who are clear in their literature about exactly which Fatar actions they use - unlike Nord with their HA and HP designations. At least with the NP3 we know they are using a variant of the TP-40 with triple sensor which is being used in other new products like the Studio Logic SL88 Grand. We also know that Nord passed on using Fatar's synthetic ivory for some reason (maybe inconsistencies in manufacturing or holding up to their testing process?). Either way, I've read at least 3 reviews from seemingly reputable reviewers in the last few weeks that give the NP3's action with their "virtual hammer technology" - whatever that means (custom velocity curve for their sample sets?) a thumbs up. I'm eager to play one - can't find one on a shop floor in stress free driving distance - aka I might need to go to Sam Ash on W34th street.

#2654943 - 06/19/17 07:52 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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anotherscott Offline
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I agree, no evidence that Nord "heavily modifies" the Fatar actions. Though they do seem to use stiffer springs on their semi-weighted boards, as the Nords offer more resistance than other boards that use the TP-8O action.

#2654972 - 06/19/17 09:47 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: anotherscott]  
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
I agree, no evidence that Nord "heavily modifies" the Fatar actions. Though they do seem to use stiffer springs on their semi-weighted boards, as the Nords offer more resistance than other boards that use the TP-8O action.


Here too, I can't tell if Nord swaps the springs for tighter ones or what... but that tightness alone when test driving has been why I've passed on the convenience of an Electro at least twice in the last few years. I can't get on with that tight action - definitely not when trying to occasionally bring one board and using the Electro for EPs and pianos, not just organs. Which as you know, is why I am currently using a VR-700 despite no separate out(s) for the organ engine (the most common complaint). It just has a fantastic feel to it when playing and the drawbars feel great too (particularly when compared to the VR-09). I figure, if I go Mainstage or a Gemini desktop/rack at some point, I'll already have a great playing keyboard - which is getting harder and harder to find.

#2655022 - 06/20/17 03:02 AM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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Kawai James Online content
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Originally Posted by BananaBarsch
The Roland LX-7 BW is exactly 2.499€ on Thomann.de (One of the biggest german music stores).


Yes, it seems that the 'Dark Walnut' finish is a little cheaper than the 'Contemporary Black' and 'Ebony Polish' finishes.

If you are considering a home-oriented cabinet piano (as opposed to a slab-type portable) such as the Roland LX-7, I would also recommend trying competing models from Yamaha (CLP) and Kawai (CA/CS).

Furthermore, assuming that you visited your local dealer in order to play-test the LX-7, it may be morally desirable to purchase the instrument from the same store, rather than an online retailer. Many dealers will be prepared to negotiate a little on price, some may even be willing to match the online price.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2655024 - 06/20/17 03:19 AM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
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I can believe Nord checks each Fatar action's response in terms of velocity etc. But I have a hard time believing that Nord physically adapts each hammer action. If they wanted a heavier or lighter feel then they could just specify that with Fatar - Nord must be a good enough customer of Fatar to get what they want. And other than altering the hammer weight, how else could these mass produced key action 'units' be altered in a manner that would not be prodigiously expensive and time-consuming (they come complete and 'ready to go' in a metal subframe with all dimensions/pivot points unalterable I would suggest)?

Having played the Nord Piano 3 I'm left wondering what all the fuss is about, although I would say it seemed a bit quieter than I remembered from my Nord Piano 1. I played a Dexibell S7 around the same time - also Fatar TP40 - and they felt more or less the same to me. Any difference was all about sound and sound engine/hardware interaction I would say.

Last edited by EssBrace; 06/20/17 06:44 AM. Reason: spelling
#2655036 - 06/20/17 05:40 AM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: ElmerJFudd]  
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Doug M. Offline
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Products to check out (top to bottom-->high to low price.

Roland:
**V-piano (stage, old) ---PHAIII action
**RD2000 (stage)---PHA50 action
**RD800 (stage)---PHAIV pro action
**FP90 (portable)---PHA50 action

Kawai
**MP11 (stage)---Grand Feel 1 action
**MP10 (stage, old)---RM3 Grand action
**MP7 (stage)---RHII action
**ES8 (stage)---RHIII action
**VPC1 (piano controller)---RM-3 Grand II action

Yamaha
**CP1 (stage)---NW‑STAGE' hammer‑action
**Montage 8 (synth)---Balanced Hammer Action
**CP4 (stage)---Natural Wood Graded Hammer (NW-GH)
**CP5 (stage)---NW‑STAGE' hammer‑action
**CP40 (stage)---GH keyboard
**P255 (portable)---GH keyboard
**CP300 (portable, old)---GH keyboard

Casio
**PX-560 (stage)---3 Sensors Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II 3 sensitivity levels, offSimulated ebony and ivory keys
**PX-5S (synth)---Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action II
**PX-360 (stage)---3 Sensors Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II 3 sensitivity levels, offSimulated ebony and ivory keys

Nord (Heavily modified Fatar actions)
**Nord Piano 3 (stage)---‘Triple Sensor key bed with improved grand weighted action’ and features Nord’s Virtual Hammer Action Technology
**Nord Piano 2 (stage)--- fully weighted Hammer Action keybed
**Nord Stage 3 (stage)---fully weighted Hammer Action keybed
**Nord Stage 2 EX (stage, old)---fully weighted Hammer Action Keybed

Kurzweil (Fatar actions)
**Forte (stage)---Fatar TP/40L
**Forte SE (stage, light)---Fatar TP/100LR
**Artis (stage)---Fatar TP/100LR
**Artis SE (stage, light)---Fatar TP/100LR

Physis (Custom Fatar)
**H1 (stage)---TP40 Wood, but it is actually a wooden version of TP400.
**K4 (stage, midi controller)---TP40W Wood, Ivory finish , Graded, 3 sensor

Korg
**Kronos 2 (workstation)---RH3 (Real Weighted Hammer Action 3)
**SV-1 (vintage stage)---RH3 (Real Weighted Hammer Action 3)
**Kross (workstation)---NH (Natural Weighted Hammer Action) keyboard


This is a really good list. Many of us are hoping to see the Korg Grandstage arrive to market this year or early next. Having the Kronos sound engines trickle down to a more accessibility priced stage piano format would be a nice addition - although Korg hasn't to my knowledge been working on an upgrade to the RH3 which is only just ok when compared to some others on this list, particularly for playing acoustic piano. It's not the worst, there's just better (although I dig playing Rhodes on the SV1).

Regarding the Nord actions - I don't know why people go on about these Fatar actions being modified, or even "heavily modified". Nord has never suggested in any literature that I am aware of that mentions modification of the Fatar TP-100, TP-40, or TP8Os that they order. One would think modification would be a selling point. Now they might keep what exactly they alter or replace or lubricate with space age polymers under wraps. Or they just might stay quiet that they use stock actions from Fatar and let the internet promote hearsay and secret sauce rumors. Now what we have seen is video from inside the Nord factory where they extensively test and calibrate each action to their specifications for their sample sets and sound engines. But so do others, like Kurzweil who are clear in their literature about exactly which Fatar actions they use - unlike Nord with their HA and HP designations. At least with the NP3 we know they are using a variant of the TP-40 with triple sensor which is being used in other new products like the Studio Logic SL88 Grand. We also know that Nord passed on using Fatar's synthetic ivory for some reason (maybe inconsistencies in manufacturing or holding up to their testing process?). Either way, I've read at least 3 reviews from seemingly reputable reviewers in the last few weeks that give the NP3's action with their "virtual hammer technology" - whatever that means (custom velocity curve for their sample sets?) a thumbs up. I'm eager to play one - can't find one on a shop floor in stress free driving distance - aka I might need to go to Sam Ash on W34th street.


I should point out I wasn't sure of this---customised might be a better word---but I was referring to this and other videos by Pianoman Chuck approx 1.50 minutes in.

By the way, seems Pianoman Chuck has been in a car accident, and is in recovery (out of commission) for a while.

Last edited by Doug M.; 06/20/17 05:51 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
#2655039 - 06/20/17 06:48 AM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Doug M.]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,055
EssBrace Offline
3000 Post Club Member
EssBrace  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,055
Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Doug M.

I should point out I wasn't sure of this---customised might be a better word---but I was referring to this and other videos by Pianoman Chuck approx 1.50 minutes in.

By the way, seems Pianoman Chuck has been in a car accident, and is in recovery (out of commission) for a while.


Yes Chuck often says or implies the Nord actions are heavily 'breathed on' versions of the Fatars. But I have my doubts about that. He may be right, who knows.

In any event hopefully he will be posting again on YT (and here) soon. He has built up a great resource for us all with his videos and he seems like a really nice chap too. Get well Soon PMC!

#2655047 - 06/20/17 07:51 AM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: EssBrace]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 368
Doug M. Offline
Full Member
Doug M.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 368
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Doug M.

I should point out I wasn't sure of this---customised might be a better word---but I was referring to this and other videos by Pianoman Chuck approx 1.50 minutes in.

By the way, seems Pianoman Chuck has been in a car accident, and is in recovery (out of commission) for a while.


Yes Chuck often says or implies the Nord actions are heavily 'breathed on' versions of the Fatars. But I have my doubts about that. He may be right, who knows.

In any event hopefully he will be posting again on YT (and here) soon. He has built up a great resource for us all with his videos and he seems like a really nice chap too. Get well Soon PMC!

+1 for PMC's speedy recovery.

I can think of a few reasons for Nord not to make a big deal about using "modified Fatar":
1) It makes Nord look like they can't make their own actions (their branding only once mentions Fatar).
2) It would be a a bit of an insult to Fatar if Nord were to openly advertise that they felt the need to modify the Fatar action---presumably because they think it not good enough.

TheNP3 website marketing only once says:

Quote
"The individual Fatar keybeds are meticulously calibrated at the Nord factory to ensure an even response over the whole range."


Meticulous calibration doesn't directly imply mechanical addition or modification, just tinkering with what is already there. Maybe they leaked the truth out to Chuck :-)

Last edited by Doug M.; 06/20/17 07:54 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
#2655054 - 06/20/17 08:15 AM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: BananaBarsch]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,548
ElmerJFudd Offline
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ElmerJFudd  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,548
Ha ha ha! I don't think Chuck is the source of modification-gate! smile but now that you mention it....

Actually, the forums are rife with this myth... or rumor might be a better word. Maybe hypothetical theory is even better - unproven.

Although, Chuck loves the shows, maybe he can get a Nord rep on record confirming or putting to rest the speculation.

Quote
1) It makes Nord look like they can't make their own actions (their branding only once mentions Fatar).


This is funny right? But I guess they feel perhaps (at least in the US where the Nord Stage 3 is $4499) there has to be some reason to be priced $500 over a Kurzweil Forte 88 or $800 over a Korg Kronos 88.

- on the topic of a car accident, I wish Chuck well. sheesh, just thinking about that is awful.

Quote
2) It would be a a bit of an insult to Fatar if Nord were to openly advertise that they felt the need to modify the Fatar action---presumably because they think it not good enough.


On the other hand, developers like UHL organs and Crumar are quick to point out they mess with the Fatar actions (probably spring replacement) because they are aware of how many players find the stock TP-8O feel too tight.

[Linked Image]

https://uhl-instruments.jimdo.com/

SMOOTH
The X3 SMOOTH organs are now equipped with completely modified keyboards. The original Fatar keyboard is noticeably tighter (white keys approx. 75 grams, black keys approx. 83 grams). The X3 SMOOTH plays with the modified keyboards softer and smoother - the feeling is now very close to that of the original.

For owners of pre-SMOOTH X3's:
We currently have a lot of requests for upgrading the X3's to the new SMOOTH keyboards.
This is possible - When converting to "SMOOTH" the keyboards are removed, completely modified to SMOOTH and reinstalled. The menu display remains in place on the right.
The X3's are picked up at the customer by shuttle-flight-case.
The following prices include the complete conversion, as well as the prices for the respectively insured shipping by DHL within Germany (pick-up by shuttle case and return delivery):
Upgrade SMOOTH X3-1 EUR 390,00
Upgrade SMOOTH X3-2 EUR 690,00

Last edited by ElmerJFudd; 06/20/17 08:31 AM.
#2655095 - 06/20/17 11:31 AM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: ElmerJFudd]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 368
Doug M. Offline
Full Member
Doug M.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 368
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Ha ha ha! I don't think Chuck is the source of modification-gate! smile but now that you mention it....

Actually, the forums are rife with this myth... or rumor might be a better word. Maybe hypothetical theory is even better - unproven.

Although, Chuck loves the shows, maybe he can get a Nord rep on record confirming or putting to rest the speculation.

Quote
1) It makes Nord look like they can't make their own actions (their branding only once mentions Fatar).


This is funny right? But I guess they feel perhaps (at least in the US where the Nord Stage 3 is $4499) there has to be some reason to be priced $500 over a Kurzweil Forte 88 or $800 over a Korg Kronos 88.

- on the topic of a car accident, I wish Chuck well. sheesh, just thinking about that is awful.

Quote
2) It would be a a bit of an insult to Fatar if Nord were to openly advertise that they felt the need to modify the Fatar action---presumably because they think it not good enough.


On the other hand, developers like UHL organs and Crumar are quick to point out they mess with the Fatar actions (probably spring replacement) because they are aware of how many players find the stock TP-8O feel too tight.

[Linked Image]

https://uhl-instruments.jimdo.com/

SMOOTH
The X3 SMOOTH organs are now equipped with completely modified keyboards. The original Fatar keyboard is noticeably tighter (white keys approx. 75 grams, black keys approx. 83 grams). The X3 SMOOTH plays with the modified keyboards softer and smoother - the feeling is now very close to that of the original.

For owners of pre-SMOOTH X3's:
We currently have a lot of requests for upgrading the X3's to the new SMOOTH keyboards.
This is possible - When converting to "SMOOTH" the keyboards are removed, completely modified to SMOOTH and reinstalled. The menu display remains in place on the right.
The X3's are picked up at the customer by shuttle-flight-case.
The following prices include the complete conversion, as well as the prices for the respectively insured shipping by DHL within Germany (pick-up by shuttle case and return delivery):
Upgrade SMOOTH X3-1 EUR 390,00
Upgrade SMOOTH X3-2 EUR 690,00


Yeah, Nords are expensive: I guess they make fewer units (fewer in supply), so price goes up, as well as that nice sound library and their USP (all nobs, no deep menu structure). You've a point there: not great sales point to push, having to use a factory action. Seems reasonable that my second point isn't an issue then if other manufacturers openly modify Fatar actions.

Wonder why Chucks YouTube announcement video is asking for PayPal donations? He's American right: hope he's got health insurance!!!


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
#2655098 - 06/20/17 11:59 AM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Doug M.]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,102
anotherscott Offline
4000 Post Club Member
anotherscott  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,102
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Wonder why Chucks YouTube announcement video is asking for PayPal donations? He's American right: hope he's got health insurance!!!

A lot of American health insurance is "catastrophic" or close to it... i.e. there can be high deductibles. You could have to come up with a noticeable amount out-of-pocket before your insurance kicks in. So if he's on the hook for, say, the first $5k out of $50k worth of medical bills, that's still something he could need help with.


#2655102 - 06/20/17 12:05 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Kawai James]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 5
BananaBarsch Offline
Junior Member
BananaBarsch  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 5
I definetely consider the Kawai CA-67 too.

#2655141 - 06/20/17 05:21 PM Re: Is Yamahas CP300 still up to date? Any good alternatives? [Re: Doug M.]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 777
Gombessa Offline
500 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 777
Originally Posted by Doug M.

2) It would be a a bit of an insult to Fatar if Nord were to openly advertise that they felt the need to modify the Fatar action---presumably because they think it not good enough.


Don't premium AP makers using Renner actions also have made-to-spec and meticulously factory-regulated procedures? I don't think taking a supplier part and "making it your own" has any necessarily negative perception. Nord could simply have a preference for something "different" rather than "better."


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai MP11
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