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Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 #2651900
06/09/17 06:47 AM
06/09/17 06:47 AM
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Montrix Offline OP
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Hi everybody from italy,
I'm very indecisive about my next purchase, I'm looking for a digital plan and I'm undecided between: Kawai CN37 and Yamaha CLP 635
I'm a classic pianist, I think very important mechanics and in case of recording I have already decided to use the vst RAVENSCROFT 275 which I think of a span above all.
Considering this and that the price of the two digital plans is pretty much the same, noticing a lot of differences as features, i wonder for your opinion.
What do you recommend me? Thank you

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Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Montrix] #2652474
06/11/17 03:31 AM
06/11/17 03:31 AM
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Hendrik42 Offline
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If you plan to use a VST, the keyboard action is probably the most important thing to you? And given that using a VST is done best with headphones or speakers driven by PC, you would not need the four speakers of the CN37 and you can get the same good action from the CN27, and spend less money.

Of course, if you will often use the DP with the on board sound, the four speakers of the CN37 make a difference.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Montrix] #2652671
06/11/17 07:15 PM
06/11/17 07:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,348
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Montrix, welcome to the forum.

Both the CN37 and CLP-635 are very good mid-range instruments - arguably the best available in this price range. In terms of keyboard action, both models feature triple sensor detection, let-off simulation, and Ivory-like key surfaces. However, the CN37's 'Responsive Hammer III' keyboard action perhaps has the edge, due to the inclusion of counterweights in every key.

As Hendrik notes, if keyboard action realism is your priority, and you intend to play and record using a software piano such as Ravenscroft 275, I would recommend considering a dedicated piano controller such as the VPC1. Its 'RM3 Grand II' keyboard action is even more realistic than that of either the CN37 (RHIII) or CLP-635 (GH3X), while costing ~350 euros less. Of course, the VPC1 would also required a good quality stand (e.g. K&M 18950) and monitor speakers, however I believe such a setup would be preferable to a standalone console digital piano with built-in sounds and speakers.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Montrix] #2653051
06/13/17 08:32 AM
06/13/17 08:32 AM
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Ethereality Offline
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Hello y'all

New to the forum this is my first post. Writing because I'm in desperate need of your help in deciding between this two pianos. Within the next week or two I will be buying either the Yamaha CLP 635 or the Kawai CN 37, but before I write down my concerns let me explain a bit of context.

I don't play piano, I play guitar, but I've always wanted to have a piano at home to fool with it and learn, I'm 40 now but it's never to late I guess. My 4 year old son is interested in playing piano and has started going to the local Yamaha kiddie class ( it's with Electones - which I hate with a passion- but this class is just temporary until I put him on a proper PIANO class). So as much as I'm excited about buying a piano please keep in mind that FIRST AND FOREMOST, THIS PIANO IS FOR MY SON, not for me.

Yes I know, if it's for my 4 year old I could buy a cheaper YDP or whatever lower end Casio and it would do for the time being ... but then again, the key word is precisely " FOR THE TIME BEING". I dunno if yet if my son would ever become get serious learning piano, but If I buy something now I want it to be something that I wont regret later, as in " his teacher is telling me now that I must get him an acoustic piano cuz the clakkety clickkety plasticky keyboard of this YDP won't cut it anymore" kinda thing. . Yes I know DPs get outdated quickly in their samples, sound engine, etc, but one thing that more or less will stay the same is how Clavinovas or CN series emulate/simulate the feel of a real piano, i.e escapement, etc. If in the future I'm not happy with it's sound anymore I can plug it via MIDI to the newest FOTM grand piano VST or whatever. So, in a nutshell, my main concern is the action of these two pianos and how they will help/hamper the learning of a 4 year old.

I live in Japan, and pricewise, buying the CN37 in amazon here is about 1420 USD or so (after amazon point rebate). Yes, in Japan DPS are CONSIDERABLY cheaper than in the US. The CLP 635 is a bit more expensive because I would also have to buy that bluetooth dongle thingy for being able to use it with my iPad ( for the CN i dont need to buy an extra, it already has bluetooth). However, I happen to know the local Yamaha rep and she's giving me an even cheaper price for the CLP, it would be 1280 USD or so if i buy it at their shop in a mall that has double point rebates on fridays. I really hate it that she gave me this deal because before it I was dead set on the CN 37. I haven't actually played it ( no local dealer of in my town... even if there were I wouldn't know if the action is better/worse than the CLP as I am not a piano player). But I was sold on its features : speaker configuration, number of voices (350!!!), concert magic feature, sounds better to my untrained ears when I compare online demos of both the CN and CLP. Yes I know that if I am concerned about number of voices I could just get more by plugging it via MIDI to a PC. Same goes with interactive learning features such as "concert magic". However, having it all in one single package as the CN does is attractive to me. Nevertheless it would come disassembled ( I would need to assemble) while the Yamaha will be delivered and assembled by Yamaha at my home.

So herein the question. The dilemmas explained in the previous paragraph ( price, voices, features, etc) are MY dilemmas, not my son's. And remember, this is gonna be my son's piano, not mine (even if I might as well learn along with him too). Thus, please, please please help me:

For the hands of a 4 year old, which action is better ( and future proof) ? Kawais RHIII or Yamaha's GH3X?

Please don't reccommend me any other piano besides these two, I have already exhausted all other options and pricewise ( 1450 or so is as much as I can afford) and featurewise there no other better options, at least in the town where I live. Thanks in advance for your replies.

Ethereality

Last edited by Ethereality; 06/13/17 08:34 AM.
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Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Montrix] #2653074
06/13/17 09:43 AM
06/13/17 09:43 AM
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MacMacMac Offline
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You cited price, voices, features, future proof as your decision drivers.
In my opinion the only one of those that matters (in your situation) is price.
- Features don't matter. It's a piano. All pianos have the 88 necessary features. The rest are fluff.
- Voices don't matter. If your son is to learn piano, he needs one voice: piano. The rest are fluff.
- There is no such thing as future proof.

On balance, I'd suggest you buy the one you like the best.
- Which looks better?
- Which sounds better?
- Which has the better warranty?
- Which is cheaper?
Those are the drivers I'd suggest for this situation.

Edit: I just noticed that Ethereality hijacked this thread, started by Montrix.
My comments above are meant for Ethereality.
Montrix's situation is a bit different because he intends to use VST instruments.

Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: MacMacMac] #2653090
06/13/17 10:33 AM
06/13/17 10:33 AM
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Ethereality Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You cited price, voices, features, future proof as your decision drivers


You forgot the most important one I mentioned, ACTION. Which action is better for a 4 year old? Kawai's or Yamaha's?

Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Ethereality] #2653154
06/13/17 01:49 PM
06/13/17 01:49 PM
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by Ethereality
You forgot the most important one I mentioned, ACTION. Which action is better for a 4 year old? Kawai's or Yamaha's?


These two options are really quite close together, to the point where it is going to be more a matter of personal preference. I like Kawai's actions better generally, but play on a variety of Yamaha actions as well and they're good too.

I personally think Yamaha has a bit higher resistance needed to get the key moving, but once it does move the rest of the travel is very light. Kawai's are closer to the acoustics I've played, which feel like more constant force against the hammer mechanism.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Gombessa] #2653226
06/13/17 05:37 PM
06/13/17 05:37 PM
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Ethereality Offline
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Originally Posted by Gombessa

I personally think Yamaha has a bit higher resistance needed to get the key moving, but once it does move the rest of the travel is very light. Kawai's are closer to the acoustics I've played, which feel like more constant force against the hammer mechanism.


Thank you for your reply. So if i interpret your post correctly, if the Yamaha GH3X has more resistance then it would be harder on the fingers of a 4 year old boy's hand? Meaning the Kawai would be better for my son? Or would a "higher resistance" be a better thing for a 4 year old (developing his hand muscles or sumth)? - sorry for my ignorance, I'm pretty much a Neophite when it comes to DP and early childhood piano learning.

Ethereality

Last edited by Ethereality; 06/13/17 05:44 PM.
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Montrix] #2653233
06/13/17 06:03 PM
06/13/17 06:03 PM
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MacMacMac Offline
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When evaluating piano actions there's another (surprising) consideration.
Two pianos from the same manufacturer and the same action ... can feel very different.
I don't know why. Is it manufacturing variation? Or something else.

So I'm reluctant to conclude that the action on model CLP-xxx is "heavier" than on model CLP-yyy.
It seems that even on sample of CLP-xxx differs from another one! Strange.

There is one take-away from this. If you try a piano and like it, buy THAT ONE, not another one from the warehouse.

Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: MacMacMac] #2653244
06/13/17 06:42 PM
06/13/17 06:42 PM
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Ethereality Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
When evaluating piano actions there's another (surprising) consideration.
Two pianos from the same manufacturer and the same action ... can feel very different.
I don't know why. Is it manufacturing variation? Or something else.

There is one take-away from this. If you try a piano and like it, buy THAT ONE, not another one from the warehouse.


I totally relate with this. As I mentioned on my OP, I am not a piano player but a guitar player, and it's exactly the same. If you like a guitar you've demoed, buy that one cuz even another one of the same brand, exact same model can have widely different action.

Unfortunately, I cannot play the Kawai one before buying it, as there's no local dealer. I can play the Yamaha one but even if I did, I would have no idea of how good or bad is its action because again, I am a complete Neophite when it come to piano playing, I have no point of reference whatsoever of what is a good/bad action.

That is why I ask you at this forum. Which one is best, IN GENERAL TERMS (yes I understand there might be slight differences between DPs of same model same brand) , for the hands of a four year old boy? For example, Kawai's RHIII key are all 88 of them individually weighted, while,Yamaha's GH3X is zone weighted if I understand correctly. How would this difference translate in one being easier/harder to play for a 4 years old?

Thanks

Last edited by Ethereality; 06/13/17 06:46 PM.
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: MacMacMac] #2653255
06/13/17 07:11 PM
06/13/17 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac

There is one take-away from this. If you try a piano and like it, buy THAT ONE, not another one from the warehouse.


Well, if this is true it makes me feel better about buying the piano that was on the showroom floor. I really love how the action feels whenever I sit down to play. Perhaps if I had not bought this one, the action would feel slightly different. Something to think about.


Roland LX-7
Started lessons in April, 2017
In progress: Alfred's Adult All-In-One Course: Lesson-Theory-Technic: Level 2 | Fundamentals of Piano Theory - Level 2 | Hanon: The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Montrix] #2653257
06/13/17 07:19 PM
06/13/17 07:19 PM
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I feel that in general terms, any quality digital piano like the ones to are looking at will have realistic actions that are just fine for young children to learn on. Remember, a lot of people learned (and a lot still do) on decades old hand me down instruments with terrible actions, and they learn just fine.

As your kids learn they will get experience in a number of different actions, some heavy, some light, some smooth and some ratchety.

RH3 is not individually weighted TMK, and even in general I don't think it would make a lick of difference.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Montrix] #2653339
06/13/17 11:41 PM
06/13/17 11:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,348
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Ethereality, welcome to the forum.

As I explained to Montrix earlier in the thread, the two models that you are considering are among the best available in their price range, with good quality sounds and realistic keyboard actions. I believe either piano will be suitable for your son to learn on. Again, the CN37's RHIII action incorporates in each key - a feature that no other instruments in this price range offer, while the 4-speaker system is also superior to competing models.

I would not be swayed too much by the discount being offered by your local Yamaha rep, nor the offer to pre-assemble the instrument. I believe it's more important to purchase the piano that you believe is best.

May I ask where are you based in Japan? Kawai has quite a strong network domestically, with stores and teaching schools in most cities. In addition to Kawai-run shops, digital pianos such as the CN and CA series are also available from electronics retailers such as Bic Camera, Yamada Denki, and musical instrument retailers such as Shimamura gakki, found in larger AEON malls.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Kawai James] #2653413
06/14/17 08:14 AM
06/14/17 08:14 AM
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Ethereality Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

May I ask where are you based in Japan?


Funny that you ask, cuz I actually tried to PM you to ask you precisely about buying options in Japan, but it said that your inbox had exceeded private message topics or sumth like that. How about you PM me and we can discuss where to buy it Japan?

Originally Posted by Kawai James

Again, the CN37's RHIII action incorporates in each key - a feature that no other instruments in this price range offer,


So just to be completely sure, the RHIII keys are indeed individually weighted as opppsed to Yamaha's GH3x which are zone weighted right?

Last edited by Ethereality; 06/14/17 08:39 AM.
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Ethereality] #2653415
06/14/17 08:25 AM
06/14/17 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ethereality

Originally Posted by Kawai James

Again, the CN37's RHIII action incorporates in each key - a feature that no other instruments in this price range offer,


So just to be completely sure, the RHIII keys are indeed individually weighted as opppsed to Yamaha's GH3x which are some weighted right?


I saw that too, and thought he just a word.

My guess is that he meant to say each key in the RHIII action incorporates a counterweight in each key, not individual weighting versus zone weighting.

[Linked Image]


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Ethereality] #2653611
06/14/17 07:17 PM
06/14/17 07:17 PM
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Posts: 14,348
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Hello Ethereality,

Originally Posted by Ethereality
I actually tried to PM you to ask you precisely about buying options in Japan, but it said that your inbox had exceeded private message topics or sumth like that.


Ah, sorry about that. I asked Frank if he could increase my PM limit, but I've yet to receive a reply.

Originally Posted by Ethereality
How about you PM me and we can discuss where to buy it Japan?


Yes, that should work. I don't have any involvement in the domestic sales side of Kawai Japan's business, but I can probably ask some of my colleagues downstairs if they have any suggestions, once I learn where you're based.

Originally Posted by Ethereality
So just to be completely sure, the RHIII keys are indeed individually weighted as opppsed to Yamaha's GH3x which are zone weighted right?


No, the RHIII keys are also weighted in grouped zones, sorry if I was not clear on this point.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Montrix] #2653715
06/15/17 06:28 AM
06/15/17 06:28 AM
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MacMacMac Offline
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KJ: IIRC, this is not the first time you've encountered your PM limit. And it's not surprising. No doubt it's because people here trust your judgement. You are the Cronkite of Piano World.

Perhaps you would be given a higher limit if you were a board administrator? I know that's true of the board my wife manages, but I don't know whether that's true of PW.

Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Montrix] #2653716
06/15/17 06:29 AM
06/15/17 06:29 AM
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Maartin Offline
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Can't he just delete old PM's to free up space or doesn't it work like that?

Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Maartin] #2653725
06/15/17 07:30 AM
06/15/17 07:30 AM
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by Maartin
Can't he just delete old PM's to free up space or doesn't it work like that?


Yeah, but it tends to be a pain with typical forum software. They count the messages you receive, and the copies of messages you send, separately in the PM count, and you have to go through those lists separately when trying to delete stuff. It's a not-fun process that takes up way more time than it's worth, unless you cut your losses and just mass-delete everything in every inbox beyond a certain date.

Originally Posted by Maartin
Perhaps you would be given a higher limit if you were a board administrator?


IMHO, while I think KJ is one of the most valuable members here (and also one of the most scrupulous and honest), his employment with Kawai would cast an unnecessary shadow across an admin/moderator role here. It's not my call of course, but I feel the the same responses/advice he gives today would unfortunately be viewed in a different light if he had elevated access.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Kawai James] #2653803
06/15/17 11:05 AM
06/15/17 11:05 AM
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Posts: 117
Fort Walton Beach, FL
Paul in FWB Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
... I would recommend considering a dedicated piano controller such as the VPC1. Its 'RM3 Grand II' keyboard action is even more realistic than that of either the CN37 (RHIII) or CLP-635 (GH3X) ....


Hi James -

Should I assume that the Grand Feel II action of the CA series is superior to the RM3 Grand II action of the VPC1?

Thanks,

Paul


Proud Owner of a Kawai Rosina (SI-16)
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: MacMacMac] #2653943
06/15/17 07:47 PM
06/15/17 07:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,348
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
KJ: IIRC, this is not the first time you've encountered your PM limit. And it's not surprising. No doubt it's because people here trust your judgement. You are the Cronkite of Piano World.

Perhaps you would be given a higher limit if you were a board administrator? I know that's true of the board my wife manages, but I don't know whether that's true of PW.


Thank you for the kind words Mac! wink

Yes, this has happened in the past, and at that time the moderators increased my PM quota. I'm reluctant to delete messages, in case I need to reference them again at a later date. I feel the correspondence that they contain is valuable, much like emails (which I never delete either).

Fortunately, the moderators have again agreed to increase my PM quote, which should keep me going for another few years, so that's the way it is. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Gombessa] #2653956
06/15/17 08:51 PM
06/15/17 08:51 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
IMHO, while I think KJ is one of the most valuable members here (and also one of the most scrupulous and honest)...


Wow, thank you! blush

Originally Posted by Gombessa
...his employment with Kawai would cast an unnecessary shadow across an admin/moderator role here. It's not my call of course, but I feel the the same responses/advice he gives today would unfortunately be viewed in a different light if he had elevated access.


Yes, I totally agree.
I'm perfectly happy with the current situation, of just being a regular member like everyone else.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN37 Vs Yamaha CLP 635 [Re: Paul in FWB] #2653958
06/15/17 08:57 PM
06/15/17 08:57 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by Paul in FWB
Should I assume that the Grand Feel II action of the CA series is superior to the RM3 Grand II action of the VPC1?


In terms of realism, yes, the 'Grand Feel II' keyboard action is superior to that of 'RM3 Grand II'.
It features longer keys and a longer pivot point, in addition to Ebony Touch black key surfaces, and full 88-key counterweights, among other enhancements.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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Is Kawai CN37 Worth The Extra Money?
by yarinch. 11/15/18 04:05 AM
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