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Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2579493
10/17/16 12:41 PM
10/17/16 12:41 PM
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Hi johan_d, I'd be happy to forward the books from the USA to you. PM me with an address, and I'll PM you back with my address.


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Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2579562
10/17/16 05:04 PM
10/17/16 05:04 PM
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UK
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spanishbuddha Online content
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I'm in the UK and purchased both Chord and Pattern Play online from Wordery, they sent me a physical book, arrived within 2 weeks too.

Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2579674
10/18/16 01:23 AM
10/18/16 01:23 AM
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If you are shipping books to Europe from the US and cost is a factor, you might want to figure out the shipping cost first. I ship books internationally from Canada. From here it costs $41 for .5 to 1 kg by "small packet". By surface, it is less but can take 12 weeks. You could check by estimating the weight and going to USPS.com.

I recently started with Chord Play and like it a lot but I wish I had gotten Pattern Play first.


April
Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2609848
01/30/17 03:12 AM
01/30/17 03:12 AM
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If someone is planning to visit Europe and would buy these books for me in the USA, to take them to a local EU post office once arrived, can always pm me.

Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2610142
01/31/17 01:01 AM
01/31/17 01:01 AM
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Orange County, California
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I thought I recognized this name. He does a lot of the random arrangements and mystery pieces in the RCM sight reading books I have.


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Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2646907
05/25/17 09:26 AM
05/25/17 09:26 AM
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You can read an interview with Forrest Kinney about Improvisation on my blog: www.pianoways.com
He also has a website with a lot of interesting material.

Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: TonyB] #2649223
06/01/17 12:13 PM
06/01/17 12:13 PM
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TonyB,

In another thread, you and dmd provided in depth analyses and gave good grades to David Higginson's (DH) course. Is the Forrest Kinney (FK) material similar?

I am seriously considering DH but then the FK thread popped up. The DH course is around $300 and I don't know how much the two sets of FK books cost. It's not so much the money, although that can't be overlooked, but the thought of yet "another course".

Do you still consider the DH course worth while?

Thank you in advance,
Dommie

Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2649235
06/01/17 01:03 PM
06/01/17 01:03 PM
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Forrest Kinney introduced a new beginner method based on his previous books. So now there is:

1. Create First! (new PDFs for solos, duets +online videos)
2. Chord Play (arranging)
3. Pattern Play (improvising)

Here's the web page:
https://forrestkinney.com/shop-forrest-kinney-music/

I've worked through most of Chord Play and much of the Pattern Play books. I'd recommend these books if you have a teacher or have done "Play By Ear" lessons to a decent level. If you're self-learning from scratch or have done straight "classical" style lessons with no play by ear training, you may find these overwhelming.

(*I don't know much about the new Create First! series)


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Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2651684
06/08/17 10:03 AM
06/08/17 10:03 AM
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Chord Play just arrived yesterday from amazon and although I haven't had a lot of time with it so far I like it a lot. Thanks for this thread and for the recommendation. I have a feeling that I will be ordering the rest of these books.


Roland LX-7
Started lessons in April, 2017
In progress: Alfred's Adult All-In-One Course: Lesson-Theory-Technic: Level 2 | Fundamentals of Piano Theory - Level 2 | Hanon: The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises
Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: Dommie] #2651696
06/08/17 10:39 AM
06/08/17 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dommie
TonyB,

In another thread, you and dmd provided in depth analyses and gave good grades to David Higginson's (DH) course. Is the Forrest Kinney (FK) material similar?

I am seriously considering DH but then the FK thread popped up. The DH course is around $300 and I don't know how much the two sets of FK books cost. It's not so much the money, although that can't be overlooked, but the thought of yet "another course".

Do you still consider the DH course worth while?

Thank you in advance,
Dommie


I have both DH and FK stuff.

The FK course is more generalized which addresses various methods which may be used to develop personal arrangements of tunes depending upon the skills you develop within that course over the weeks/months/years. It is a very long term (5 books, so far) all encompassing course. If you do it in a manner where you become skilled at the various methods presented, you will be a very good player of tunes using your ideas for the arrangement you play during any particular performance. Your arrangement of the same music may and probably will change as you develop more sophisticated methods.

The DH course is more focused. It presents one method (arpeggiated chord tones) for developing an arrangement and presents you with numerous examples of how you might implement that method on those tunes. You are then encouraged to develop your own arrangements of other similar tunes using that same method. That one method is probably covered in the FK course, also ... in a more generalized form and may not show up for a while in that course. It should be noted that the DH course also helps you with playing accompaniments for singers or in groups so if you want that ... it might be a good course for you.

The DH course will probably give you a quicker result in the sense that you will be playing a semi-professional sounding tune fairly quickly. The FK course will have you "grinding away" at basic skills on folk tunes or other similar tunes while you are developing your skills.

As a very early beginner, you might be better off with the FK course so that you keep building your skill base. As an early intermediate player you may get frustrated with the slow pace of the FK course, and may wish to take the fast track of the FH course.

As always .... in either of these courses ... if you try to zip through them .... you get nothing.

Good Luck




Last edited by dmd; 06/08/17 10:42 AM.

Don

Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course - Completed Chapter 5

Pianoteq, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor
Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2651706
06/08/17 11:28 AM
06/08/17 11:28 AM
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I just got my copy. I did the first exercise and played a whole bunch of the songs by ear. I was better at it than I thought I would be. How good do you think we should be at an exercise before moving on? If I got the general gist of Danny Boy, for example, but with several mistakes, should I move on to the next page or try to get better at playing simple tunes by ear?

Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: sara elizabeth] #2651718
06/08/17 12:21 PM
06/08/17 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sara elizabeth
I just got my copy. I did the first exercise and played a whole bunch of the songs by ear. I was better at it than I thought I would be. How good do you think we should be at an exercise before moving on? If I got the general gist of Danny Boy, for example, but with several mistakes, should I move on to the next page or try to get better at playing simple tunes by ear?


Your copy of what ?


I will assume it is the Forrest Kinney book, since that is the topic of this thread. I asked because the Higgenson course is also being discussed.

I would suggest not settling for the "general gist" of things as you move through the book(s).

Pick a tune or 2 or 3 and get very good at the style you are working on. Then you will have it in your tool box for the future.

If you just get the general gist, it is like reading through the books and nodding your head and thinking you are making progress .... you are not.

As in any of these piano courses, you only get out of it ... what you put into it.

Hurrying through it usually results in a lot of knowledge about how to do things but no real skills.

Besides, that .... in your case, I thought you were going to include you teacher with your work in the books.

She will be a able to guide you as to when is enough ... enough.

Good Luck




Last edited by dmd; 06/08/17 12:50 PM.

Don

Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course - Completed Chapter 5

Pianoteq, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor
Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2651742
06/08/17 01:56 PM
06/08/17 01:56 PM
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Yes the Chord Play book. I didn't really think about doing it with my teacher, but I'll ask her about it when I see her on Friday. If she can help me that would be great. We might need a longer lesson though.

Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: sara elizabeth] #2651755
06/08/17 02:40 PM
06/08/17 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sara elizabeth
Yes the Chord Play book. I didn't really think about doing it with my teacher, but I'll ask her about it when I see her on Friday. If she can help me that would be great. We might need a longer lesson though.


Or a lesson driven by your progress or needs in whichever skills need work at the moment.

There are many options available as to how to have your teacher be supportive.


Don

Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course - Completed Chapter 5

Pianoteq, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor
Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2652497
06/11/17 07:21 AM
06/11/17 07:21 AM
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I talked to my teacher and for now I am going to work on the book on my own. Once my exam is done we may do more of it together, along with an improvisation book she has.

Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: sara elizabeth] #2652512
06/11/17 08:43 AM
06/11/17 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by sara elizabeth
I talked to my teacher and for now I am going to work on the book on my own. Once my exam is done we may do more of it together, along with an improvisation book she has.


Sounds good to me.

Enjoy !


Don

Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course - Completed Chapter 5

Pianoteq, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor
Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: dmd] #2653281
06/13/17 08:24 PM
06/13/17 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Dommie
TonyB,

In another thread, you and dmd provided in depth analyses and gave good grades to David Higginson's (DH) course. Is the Forrest Kinney (FK) material similar?

I am seriously considering DH but then the FK thread popped up. The DH course is around $300 and I don't know how much the two sets of FK books cost. It's not so much the money, although that can't be overlooked, but the thought of yet "another course".

Do you still consider the DH course worth while?

Thank you in advance,
Dommie


I have both DH and FK stuff.

The FK course is more generalized which addresses various methods which may be used to develop personal arrangements of tunes depending upon the skills you develop within that course over the weeks/months/years. It is a very long term (5 books, so far) all encompassing course. If you do it in a manner where you become skilled at the various methods presented, you will be a very good player of tunes using your ideas for the arrangement you play during any particular performance. Your arrangement of the same music may and probably will change as you develop more sophisticated methods.

The DH course is more focused. It presents one method (arpeggiated chord tones) for developing an arrangement and presents you with numerous examples of how you might implement that method on those tunes. You are then encouraged to develop your own arrangements of other similar tunes using that same method. That one method is probably covered in the FK course, also ... in a more generalized form and may not show up for a while in that course. It should be noted that the DH course also helps you with playing accompaniments for singers or in groups so if you want that ... it might be a good course for you.

The DH course will probably give you a quicker result in the sense that you will be playing a semi-professional sounding tune fairly quickly. The FK course will have you "grinding away" at basic skills on folk tunes or other similar tunes while you are developing your skills.

As a very early beginner, you might be better off with the FK course so that you keep building your skill base. As an early intermediate player you may get frustrated with the slow pace of the FK course, and may wish to take the fast track of the FH course.

As always .... in either of these courses ... if you try to zip through them .... you get nothing.

Good Luck





Well, after reading thru this thread, I've decided to invest in both the DH course and the first book of the FK series. Your explanation of the differences between the two appears to be spot on.

With that said, I'd be interested in hearing of how you (and others who have one or both of the courses) use them. For example:

Regarding DH - Are you working thru the lessons in a linear order? Or have you jumped ahead to the "Solo Piano" lessons (#61 and up) after learning a few songs in lessons #1 thru #9 (or thereabouts). I'm more interested in Solo Piano than in accompanying, so I've started Lesson #61 (Silent Night). I'm curious whether others are following this same path?

Regarding FK - I only have Chord Play Book #1 for a few days now. Based upon my current skill level, I found that working thru Explorations 1 thru 3 has been pretty easy for me. Meaning, it's easy to play the notes and variations presented. But I can't help thinking that I'm missing something, or not working thru the Explorations properly. Do variations to try get presented in later Explorations, or did I miss something about how to work with the Explorations? I would really appreciate reading some specifics of exactly what users of FK's materials do in working thru these "Explorations", other than playing what's presented on each page.

All in all, I find both courses and approaches have their merits. Sadly,I have a history of starting courses, but never finishing them. But I'm determined to get thru these. I just need a little guidance from other users.

Thanks!


Bert
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Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: newbert] #2653630
06/14/17 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by newbert
Regarding DH - Are you working thru the lessons in a linear order? Or have you jumped ahead to the "Solo Piano" lessons (#61 and up) after learning a few songs in lessons #1 thru #9 (or thereabouts). I'm more interested in Solo Piano than in accompanying, so I've started Lesson #61 (Silent Night). I'm curious whether others are following this same path?


Well, that is what I did. I do not think there is anything wrong with that. I focused on the Solo Piano stuff also.


Quote
Regarding FK - I only have Chord Play Book #1 for a few days now. Based upon my current skill level, I found that working thru Explorations 1 thru 3 has been pretty easy for me. Meaning, it's easy to play the notes and variations presented. But I can't help thinking that I'm missing something, or not working thru the Explorations properly. Do variations to try get presented in later Explorations, or did I miss something about how to work with the Explorations? I would really appreciate reading some specifics of exactly what users of FK's materials do in working thru these "Explorations", other than playing what's presented on each page.


I think if you READ the narrative which accompanies each section so you know what the POINT is of doing the exercises you will know when you have accomplished it to a level satisfactory to you. For example, the POINT of Explorations 1 & 2 is being able to play a melody BY EAR in various keys. Well, that entails you knowing your way around the keyboard well enough to play a melody BY EAR in the key of C or D or E or F or G or .... any other key you wish to feel comfortable in. In order to do that you have to know the major scales in those keys. That is significant in itself. I would spend considerable time mastering that. Pick a tune like Amazing Grace and play it in various keys .... being very mindful of the major scale you are using for your melody notes. That is the main point of those 2 explorations. You may spend weeks with that, depending upon how well you know your scales now.

So, in summary ..... as always ... you will get out of it, what you put into it. Rush through it and you get nothing.

Good Luck


Don

Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course - Completed Chapter 5

Pianoteq, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor
Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: dmd] #2653720
06/15/17 07:07 AM
06/15/17 07:07 AM
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Thanks very much for your insights, Don!


Bert
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Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2653743
06/15/17 08:29 AM
06/15/17 08:29 AM
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Twice now I have tried to add my thoughts on the DH course, but each time, for some reason my browser loses contact with the pianoworld site and I lose my entire text. I will try one more time, and keep this short, so I hope without detail, it still makes sense.

Lesson 61 in the David Higginson (DH) course is a lecture detailing his process for creating a solo arrangement, starting from the accompaniment he teaches throughout the course. Instead of passively watching the lecture, I went very slowly and carefully through each step with him, learning to play exactly what he plays ad making sure I understand what he is doing and why.

The time spent doing that is making all the difference in the depth and completeness of the learning I am getting from the subsequent lessons on playing the various tunes as solos. All the information is there in the lessons, but you really have to dig in to get it. I ripped the DVDs to my computer and use Transcribe! to slow down and endlessly loop small sections to make sure I get it all, because there is so much to get.

For me personally, this DH course is absolutely the best of everything I have (and I have collected a lot of books and courses). DH's teaching style just seems to match my learning style.

I will post a followup to this laying out the steps DH takes to create a solo. In lesson 61, he uses the song "Tammy" (theme song for the 1956 movie "Tammy and the Bachelor"). The song is not taught in the course, but the first 8 bars are used in lesson 61 to demonstrate his approach to arranging, starting with the accompaniment patterns he teaches in the main part of the course.

He does a similar thing, using the tune "Don't Blame Me" in the last lesson of the course to demonstrate using stride piano stylings to arrange solos. Since I have lots of fakebooks, I had no trouble finding the lead sheets for both of these tunes.

Make no mistake about it, the DH course is much more complete than it looks at first glance. I fully intend to stick with it until I finish the course. It is no "overnight" false promise, but instead a lot of effort to learn to really play pop music on the piano. However, due to his teaching style and ability to put together a really decent and effective course, the motivation to go all the way with this course has not been a problem for me.

Tony

Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2653746
06/15/17 08:40 AM
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As mentioned in my previous post, lesson 61 in the David Higginson (DH) course lays out his steps to turn an accompaniment to a tune into a solo with the melody. The steps he teaches are as follows:

1. Learn the tune as accompaniment, as he teaches every tune in his course. This step allows you to determine the proper chord and rhythm patterns for the tune and get the chording all worked out.

2. Play the melody alone in the right hand, working out smooth fingerings. He encourages you to write fingering notes on the lead sheet so you don't forget. He explains how he makes his choices for which fingers to use and when.

3. Play the chord arpeggio in just the left hand, moving important notes such as the third from the right hand to the left. Get this smooth through the tune before proceeding.

4. Put the left hand from step 3 together with just the melody in the right hand. Here, you work out the timing of the melody against the arpeggiating left hand, as well as the overall coordination.

5. Play as in step 4, except right hand now plays a triad under the melody for the first beat of each measure.

6. Play as in step 5, except the right hand plays a triad under every melody note to fill out the tune.

7. Play with the arrangement, now that you have it well in hand, to make it more interesting instead of strictly playing single notes, chord on first beat, or triad under every melody note.

Once you really get this and can do it along with DH in lesson 61, you will really see this at work in tune after tune as you learn the various solo renditions he teaches. This is FAR better than simply learning an arrangement by rote!

I believe that the DH course ill teach you to play solo piano. The problem is that he condenses those lessons. He doesn't leave anything out, but his presentations require you to really dig in and carefully extract everything yourself. I did this by ripping the DVDs to my computer and using Transcribe! to endlessly loop small sections of the lesson until I really get it.

As far as I am concerned, I am faring much better by focusing on this course day after day instead of flipping around between this and that or trying to work on two or more courses at the same time. The DH course is more than enough to hold my interest, and is plenty challenging enough to require my full attention until I finish it. I also have the Forrest Kinney books (three series of them), but they can wait until I finish the DH course and have the skills necessary to really make use of them.

Tony

Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: MacMorrighan] #2653942
06/15/17 07:43 PM
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One other thought on the David Higginson course - it is a real commitment. I think one thing that we self-teachers tend to do is buy into the hype, thinking that whatever course we work with is going to make the process somehow easier than it might otherwise be with a "real" teacher. When the shiny newness wears off, we are faced with the reality that this is going to be a slow and painstaking process, and there is nothing we can do to circumvent that.

I find myself very slowly going over the same movements again and again. I get them reasonably smooth one day, and the next, it is initially as if I had never encountered that movement before. Fortunately, it gets into my hands a bit faster this next time around, and each day gets a bit better, until the movement becomes a part of my vocabulary.

With this style of music, we are not really learning a specific tune, but instead building a skill set that can then be applied to ANY tune. It is a lot of focused effort, but the payoff is much bigger than just being able to play one tune. Remembering that fact, does make it easier to stay motivated. smile

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 06/15/17 07:44 PM.
Re: WOW!!! "Chord Play", by Forrest Kinney! [Re: TonyB] #2653955
06/15/17 08:45 PM
06/15/17 08:45 PM
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newbert Offline
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newbert  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,285
Upstate New York, USA
Originally Posted by TonyB
...With this style of music, we are not really learning a specific tune, but instead building a skill set that can then be applied to ANY tune. It is a lot of focused effort, but the payoff is much bigger than just being able to play one tune. Remembering that fact, does make it easier to stay motivated. smile

Tony



Agree with all of your points 100%, Tony. Especially what I bolded above. I've been searching thru methods and courses that had this stated goal in mind, so I hope that I've found it. I hope to take what I've gleaned from other courses to add to or meld into the skill set presented in this course.


Bert
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