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#2653774 06/15/17 10:42 AM
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Is there any good way to practice jumps? Like left hand note A then jump to a chord, then jump to note B then jump to a chord, etc. That is why I ended up memorizing some pieces, just so I could look at my hands. But I am trying to break myself of that bad habit and keep my eyes on the music.

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You are absolutely right. The best way to practice jumps is just to do them without visual control. Your brain will find the optimal trajectory.

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But what exercises? Does one take the notes and chords out of the piece of music and just practice note A then jump to a chord, then jump to note B then jump to a chord maybe 5 times looking at the hands, then a number of times with eyes closed, etc, etc.

Any particular way to practice this for best results?

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Playing musical pieces with jumps is better then playing exercises.

Practically you can derive a chord progression from any song and just play the lowest note of every chord and then the full chord one or two octaves higher.

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Originally Posted by RVDowning
Is there any good way to practice jumps? Like left hand note A then jump to a chord, then jump to note B then jump to a chord, etc. That is why I ended up memorizing some pieces, just so I could look at my hands. But I am trying to break myself of that bad habit and keep my eyes on the music.


Study ragtime wink

Truthfully, the skill takes some time to develop so studying a lot of pieces that require the technique is probably the best way to obtain it. It can help you to try to harmonically analyze the LH. The root note is not random but is usually the first, third, or fifth scale degree. The accompanying chord is usually triad, a triad inversion, or a seventh inversion.

After a while, you know pretty much how far down the keyboard to go without specifically looking--the same way that your right hand probably knows about how wide an octave is.

Try not to cheat it much while practicing... when I'm getting overwhelmed by a piece, I'll start ghosting the bass and it undercuts the music.


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Originally Posted by Whizbang

Study ragtime wink

Indeed! A brilliant advice!

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Actually, I can stumble my way (quite badly) through the Maple Leaf Rag and Easy Winners. But I had to memorize these pieces for precisely this reason.

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Originally Posted by RVDowning
Actually, I can stumble my way (quite badly) through the Maple Leaf Rag and Easy Winners. But I had to memorize these pieces for precisely this reason.


Two of Joplin's best.

Don't despair. As I said, it takes quite a while. Definitely not your first piece and definitely not your second.

In my case, I am very, very bad at memorizing, so I've always stared at the page while playing. That's probably be an asset in that my prioperception doesn't seem to be particularly finely tuned so I needed lots of practice and couldn't cheat it. Don't beat yourself up.

I do think picking it up through repertoire is probably preferable to exercises. If you really want to do exercises, maybe get a book of ragtime pieces (or download some sheets from imslp.org since rags are pretty much public domain), cut out the bass lines in 8-measure sections (starting at the beginning of a section), then with glue, make an exercise book.

The more simply-structured rags usually stick strongly to a boom-chuck bass, so you might start with those first--so authors like Charles Hunter, Charles Thompson, Percy Wenrich, May Aufderheide, Scott Hayden, Tom Turpin. With these composers you're more likely to get root-chuck-fifth-chuck in the bass. Part of Joplin, Lamb, and Scott's mastery was that they were likely to mix up the bass a lot more.


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When I first first started learning left hand jumps for ragtime I looked around the internet for ways to practice and found Chung smile A controversial book, but it had some ideas that helped me.

One of them was "ghosting" - not good as you're actually playing, as Whizbang points out, but it was of enormous help to me to get the jump down. I'd play the bass and then, as quickly as I could, jump up to the chord *position* and stop, not actually playing the chord. The idea was to learn to get my hand in position directly over the chord *before* playing it, rather than trying to slide into it on the move. It took a lot of slow and then moderate practice, but it was worth every minute smile


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I don't see how that helps you hit the base to begin with. I think I may actually have more trouble hitting the base note than I do hitting the chord thereafter, although I do have issues with both.

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Last edited by dogperson; 06/15/17 02:49 PM. Reason: duplicate
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My teacher recommended a variation of 'ghosting' as well: jump to the next chord without looking at the keys..... see how far off you are from where you want to be. Repeat until you are consistently hitting the right interval. You are developing your body awareness 'proprioception' of the distance.

This body training works for me for even jumps of multiple octaves

you can do the same exercise in reverse: play the chord, guess where the bass note jump will be, check, repeat until you consistently hit it.

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Originally Posted by RVDowning
I don't see how that helps you hit the base to begin with. I think I may actually have more trouble hitting the base note than I do hitting the chord thereafter, although I do have issues with both.


Well, instead of starting with the bass you start with note/chord before it and "ghost" the bass note smile It's just a different chunk and a different bit of proprioception that's being drilled, as dogperson says.

But whatever - it worked for *me* - try different things until you find one that works for *you* -


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Forearm rotation helps send you to the next place. I do like the ghosting method Cathy talks about, playing the note or chord before the jump and moving fast to the new place without playing there. This can help activate the rotation and the feeling of being "sent" there by momentum. I also find it helpful to be very aware of *exactly* where you want to land--not just over the right key, but where on the key (e.g., long fingers may need to be further toward the fallboard, especially if short fingers will play on black keys anytime soon), where should your whole hand and arm be to play the next chord or sequence of notes, etc. This may seem perfectionistic, but it can really help improve reliability of the jump.


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Leaps are difficult, especially because we tend to tense up in our attempts at being accurate with the leap. Sometimes we don't think we can make it in time - and we can't because we're too tense - other times we are on time but not hitting the notes correctly. So it's important to build in the ability to make that leap working from a big-picture, get to the general area kind of way and refine it to get closer and closer to the actual target.

You start with an exaggerated movement without trying to be accurate at first. Start by playing ALL of your fingers in the general area where you begin the leap, and then leap way up in the air and fall onto the general area that is the target, and again, play all fingers. It will sound lovely laugh .

Keep going back and forth like this as quickly as you can reasonably, getting height to get you there rather than horizontal real estate. Once this is easy and tense-free, then you can try using the fingers in question. Again, just try to be in the general vicinity of where you start and where you begin, going back and forth with an exaggerated height, very quickly. Just let the finger land close to where you need it.

As this becomes easy, continue but now try to start and land on the actual notes. The height may become less exaggerated at this time, but it should still feel the same: you don't want to feel like you are skimming across the keys to get there, you want to feel like you are falling or dropping into the leap. Continue to go back and forth quickly, but it can slow down a bit here if need be. If you miss, fix it on the next pass rather than stopping the motion and starting over.

The idea is to focus on not feeling tension to reach the note in time or accurately, but to be able to keep the muscles free as you do it, which will increase accuracy and timing.


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Morodiene, when you're referring to leaps, do you mean specifically those of several octaves? Or do you recommend this vertical motion even moving down 1-2 octaves? I too have trouble with this and am working on it. I'm getting a little better, but I can't imagine ever getting to the right note more than an octave away from any random starting position. I find it easiest if I am going exactly an octave, for instance, or if I know I'm going from a G to a lower C, etc. But I can't imagine ever hitting exactly the correct note(s) without looking at all from any random starting place. Also, why do you suggest the vertical aspect? Boy I feel like such a beginner asking frown.


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Originally Posted by dogperson
My teacher recommended a variation of 'ghosting' as well: jump to the next chord without looking at the keys..... see how far off you are from where you want to be. Repeat until you are consistently hitting the right interval. You are developing your body awareness 'proprioception' of the distance.


What you're working on here is proprioception in the big muscles of the arm and shoulder that make the long leap. You can also do that with the computer instead of the piano. Open a scratch file in a word processor, and pick an object for the starting position of your hand. Try to leap without looking from the start object to the "h" on the keyboard. Go back to the start object and try over and over.


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Originally Posted by cmb13
Morodiene, when you're referring to leaps, do you mean specifically those of several octaves? Or do you recommend this vertical motion even moving down 1-2 octaves? I too have trouble with this and am working on it. I'm getting a little better, but I can't imagine ever getting to the right note more than an octave away from any random starting position. I find it easiest if I am going exactly an octave, for instance, or if I know I'm going from a G to a lower C, etc. But I can't imagine ever hitting exactly the correct note(s) without looking at all from any random starting place. Also, why do you suggest the vertical aspect? Boy I feel like such a beginner asking frown.
I recommend this for anything above an octave leap.

If you think about it, going horizontally is really hard to do quickly. You have to go as fast as you can and then stop on just the right spot for your finger to then press down a key. That's a really tense thing to go really fast and suddenly stop, let alone be accurate. Also, it negates any ability to use arm weight to press the key, so then it will be tense once you actually hit the note, if you hit the right one!

Going vertical allows arm weight. It's much easier to fall on the correct note than to muscle your way down there. As you actually play, you may not go as high, but you still get some height to use the arm weight and to make it easier to hit the note.

One of these days I'll make a video demonstrating this. It makes the leaps really easy. smile


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Accuracy in the performance of jumps is based on three types of memory: visual, auditory and muscular; and each of them requires development.
  Btw, precise jumps require maximum stability of the hand; however, this quality is gradually weakened at a very mature age ; It requires the selection of more moderate pace .

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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by cmb13
Morodiene, when you're referring to leaps, do you mean specifically those of several octaves? Or do you recommend this vertical motion even moving down 1-2 octaves? I too have trouble with this and am working on it. I'm getting a little better, but I can't imagine ever getting to the right note more than an octave away from any random starting position. I find it easiest if I am going exactly an octave, for instance, or if I know I'm going from a G to a lower C, etc. But I can't imagine ever hitting exactly the correct note(s) without looking at all from any random starting place. Also, why do you suggest the vertical aspect? Boy I feel like such a beginner asking frown.
I recommend this for anything above an octave leap.

If you think about it, going horizontally is really hard to do quickly. You have to go as fast as you can and then stop on just the right spot for your finger to then press down a key. That's a really tense thing to go really fast and suddenly stop, let alone be accurate. Also, it negates any ability to use arm weight to press the key, so then it will be tense once you actually hit the note, if you hit the right one!

Going vertical allows arm weight. It's much easier to fall on the correct note than to muscle your way down there. As you actually play, you may not go as high, but you still get some height to use the arm weight and to make it easier to hit the note.

One of these days I'll make a video demonstrating this. It makes the leaps really easy. smile


I have a spot right now where my left is doing this running Alberti type thing in fast eighth notes and there's a giant 11 key leap right in the middle. I'd love to see a video of how to make that not sound awful.

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