Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards How does your Kawai CS8 sound to you?

I'm hoping within a few weeks to have my brother drive me outside of town to a dealership that sells Kawai digital pianos. (I can't drive, as I'm in a medical boot that makes it difficult to get around, and a drive of 150 miles would just be too much.) In my small room I never play my current digital piano louder than the fourth notch, and so it would seem that the CS8 would give me everything that I would realistically be able to get from the CA97, sound-wise. The CS8 would cost three hundred dollars less and would have a beautiful polished ebony cabinet, which is no small consideration. And since I wouldn't be using it to play Pianoteq live, speakers shouldn't be a consideration. Or should they?

Calling the dealership, I asked the saleslady about this. She claimed to be a highly-skilled pianist who regularly plays on Kawai digital pianos, and would give me her assessment, although she cautioned me not to buy any digital piano without thoroughly testing it out. Comparing the CA97 to the CS8 she claimed that even in my circumstance speakers do indeed make a difference. The CS8 has a mellower sound, and the CA97 has a brighter and livelier sound. This can be attributed to two factors, she said: the ebony cabinet of the CS8 and the speakers of the CA97. Both pianos could be adjusted, but only to a certain point. She felt that it was absolutely necessary to play both models extensively, and ask myself which would be best for my style of play.

At this point, I would like to ask those people who have bought or tested the CS8 what their opinion is. I primarily enjoy New Age, Movie and Classical music, so it would seem that the CS8 would be okay, but please feel free to give me your opinion before I test these models on my own.

Thanks for all input and advice.

I would like to chime in and post a related question as I'm also considering CA-97 vs CS-8. I've tested the CA-97 and CA-67 and it seems CA-67 was lacking a bit in bass volume and timbre and may distort a bit more when playing bass notes loudly. The CA-97 with its soundboard obviously sounded a bit richer especially in the bass compartment. But for some reason the bass still didn't sound quite right (maybe slightly muddled) and also felt it was on the verge of distorting the bass notes when playing loudly, despite ever so slightly.

Now I much prefer the polished ebony look of the CS-8 (and CS-11 is too tall for my storage space under a bar table where it will be parked when not in use, so that's out of the question at the moment). So here's the question: would a CS-8 with a nice subwoofer sound better than the CA-97 and offer more solid and realistic sounding bass to give the full spectrum and dynamism of an acoustic piano (compared to CA-97 or Yamaha Avantgrand N1)? The CA-97 bass note feels not rock solid for some reason (maybe limited by soundboard not able to reproduce the lowest frequencies which should go down to 27hz for A0?) as say Roland LX-17 or N3 with speaker technology (which may go down a bit more with the large speaker cones)... I initially thought the soundboard would certainly surpass speakers' quality in general (though CA-67 and CS-8 built in speakers because of small sized cones would certainly have more limited bass reproduction compared to LX-17 for example the high uses a 10" woofer). But what if CS-8 was backed by a nice subwoofer (creating a speaker system similar to LX-17)? Which would sound better? I didn't feel the soundboard's effect on the CA-97's key vibration was that much more significant than CA-67's speakers' effect on its keybed (hence vibration feel is not such a critical factor in this case). Also if going for the CS-8 +subwoofer combo, would it be better to set the on-board speakers EQ to lighter on bass, and let the subwoofer take care of the lower register (similar to setting a correct crossover frequency/low pass filter), to help the seamless integration and transition of frequency between the on board speakers and the external subwoofer

Thanks

Others will give a more detained answer. But consider this.
To obtain a good bass response on any piano, it has to be a large upright, or an even larger grand. Even then you won't achieve the fundamental bass sound of some of the best digitals.
I got a surprise with my FP50; inadequate bass response despite twice the amplifation of my previous DGX piano, which had a good bass on it all things considered.

And when I played some of the acoustics in the shop from where this little beast came from, can you guess which piano they most resembled out of the two I just mentioned?

Some other examples; The CA17 seemed lacking in bass, the CN27 didn't. Most of the Yamahas didn't.

It's just the way it is. D'ya REALLY want a digital to sound like an acoustic? Do I?

Consider that most acoustics don't actually produce much below around 50Hz . Even a 9' concert grand does not have a large enough soundboard to reproduce the fundamental of the bottom notes in significant quantities.

I do wonder sometimes if people expect too much bass due to listening to music where the recording and/or the system is artificially inflating the bass in the sub woofer range.

Hello ADWyatt,

I strongly agree with the salesperson's recommendation to play both models under consideration extensively in order to truly appreciate the their different qualities.

May I ask you to clarify this point, please:



Enjoy the road trip with your brother - hopefully you can make a day/weekend out of the visit, and take in some other sights along the way!

Kind regards,
James
x

Hello Jmaktai,



Far be it for me to tell you how/where to position on your piano, however if I was to purchase an attractive instrument such as the CS11 or CS8 (or CA97/CA67 for that matter...), I would want to have it out in the open, as a piece of furniture in the room, not stored away when not in use. Also, it could be argued that sometimes it's nice to just sit down and play the piano spontaneously for a few minutes here and there. I get the feeling that that's unlikely to happen if the piano is stored away somewhere less accessible, and needs to be brought out whenever you wish to play.




I expect adding a subwoofer to the CS8 would increase the bass response beyond that of the CA97. However, I don't necessarily believe that this would make the piano sound more realistic. As Bambers notes, the lowest frequencies produced by even a concert grand piano are not super deep. Loud and powerful yes, but the sound itself is quite different from the sub-bass you hear in dance music played at clubs or action movies shown at the cinema.

Kind regards,
James
x

I bought a CS8 a few months ago. I was deciding between a CA97, CA67, the CN series, as well as the Yamahas and Rolands. Quick background: played acoustic piano off and on for almost 40 years (mostly classical, some rock/pop).

As others have said here, there's no substitute for actually playing it in person.

Example: with my experience, I thought I could extrapolate what others said on the Internet (reviews, this forum, etc) to figure out what I wanted. So initially I was thinking of the Roland FP-90, the Nord Piano 3, the Kawai ES8 or the CN series. I wasn't even considering the CA or CS series at all.

I didn't try the FP-90 but managed to try a RD2000 (same action, modeling tech, etc) and in spite of the gushing reviews especially with its action and sound, I was surprised that I didn't really like it at all for the way I played. But had I relied on forums and Internet reviews alone, I would've bought it because the positive reviews seemed to fit with what I was looking for.

Tried the Nord, but really did not like the action at all.

So I narrowed it down to the Kawai - either the ES8 or the CN.

And when I actually played the CN27 and 37 and ES8 in person, I really wanted to like either especially the CN, but wasn't particularly happy with it either for my style of playing.

Then in that same dealer I played the CA67, CA97, CS8 and CS11. Overall they really just felt right - to me, the differences between them weren't better or worse for me, just different, but overall FOR ME at least they were the closest in experience to acoustic pianos that I could get short of the Yamaha Avantgrands. But I didn't buy right away. So I went back a few weeks later.

This time, I tried the CN again because I really wanted to like it (and to save money), but still didn't. This time the dealer didn't have the CA67 in the showroom, so I tried the CA97, and CS11. As I was playing, they were unpacking and assembling the CS8 for their showroom. When they finished assembling it, I played it and loved it.

But I came back yet again a few days later, ready to pull the trigger on the CA67 because I wanted to save money. But I played that CS8 again and it felt right, and the dealer gave me a deal I couldn't refuse.

Basically, for the amount of money you are going to spend AND the years (if not a decade or more?) playing that piano, you want to make sure it's right.

Maybe the CA97 is better for you, or vice versa? Or the Kawai isn't right for you after all?

Great post greenshoe!

I say that, not just because you opted to purchase a Kawai (!), but because you revisited the dealer on several occasions to re-test the different instruments until you were certain of the piano you wanted.

Cheers,
James
x

I bought my CS8 about a year ago and my experience was quite similar to greenshoe's.
I tried a lot of digitals (Yamaha, Roland and Kawai) over the course of more than one visit, as well as plenty of acoustics for contrast.
If I could have stretched my budget to an AvantGrand that would have been my first choice, but that was out of the question for me.
Among all the rest I definitely found the Kawais just felt more "right" to me. I strongly preferred the action and just felt more connected to the music as a result.
I went expecting to fall in love with the Roland LX17 (which was also totally out of budget), but while I could admire it I just didn't fall in love with it.
CA97/CS11 were also out of range, but much as I enjoyed playing these models in the showroom, I didn't feel I was missing out in going for the CS8 instead.

I never thought I'd be one to pay a significant amount extra for the nicer cabinet, but when it came to it, I surprised myself and went for the CS8 rather than the CA67.

I dream of an acoustic grand someday, but I'm very happy indeed with my CS8.

All that said, the OP might feel the connection with a different DP, so my main point is that it is so important to try for yourself.

Thanks for your insights and observations Kawai James and owners of CS-8.

I have one slightly more technical question and one subjective question:

1) I noticed in the manual of the CS-8 that one can set a custom EQ with volume/gain adjustments for 5 frequency ranges with the lowest range being 20-100hz. If I turn this band down to the minimum possible and then plug in a nice subwoofer with the crossover set at 100hz, then would that make for a smooth transition of the frequencies among the on board speakers and the subwoofer and thereby alleviate the duty of the frequencies below 100hz from the on board speakers to the subwoofer? This sounds like a pretty viable option? Of course one would connect the subwoofer to the line out, as the line out signal is not affected by the EQ (or would the line signal be affected by the EQ? Could somebody confirm this please?

2) Given the "not so big" ~$300 difference between CA97 and CS8, can owners of CS8 elaborate what factors swayed you towards the CS8?

Regarding James's reply, I agree with you the ideal scenario would be to store and play the digital piano in an open space, which would also want to make me play more but I live in HK so my apartment is a shoebox. I'm sure you can appreciate that (I assume you live in Tokyo and so you know what the average living environment is like). Honestly the ideal scenario is to get the Novus NV-10. I don't mind spending more money for a nice action and nice sound in an all-in-one solution. The presentation you gave in Musikmesse 2017 gave me confidence in the bass reproduction that so many digital pianos are lacking. And the damper simulation on down weight (that's what we've all been waiting for these years, so thank you!). If I know that the height of the Novus is shorter than 985mm and shallower than 640mm, I would totally wait for it. I like the N1 a little more than the current Kawai offerings (barring the new Novus) but the height is 995mm and I'd need to somehow pull out a beam underneath the bar as well as disassemble the music stand of the N1 for it to fit underneath the bar table which currently has a clearance height of 985mm (can stretch to 995mm if I forcibly remove the beam of wood attached to the underside of the bar top). I would just be pulling it out around 0.5m so not the biggest hassle when playing.

Hi James,

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. To clear up your question, you had asked me to explain what I meant when I wrote "since I wouldn't be using it (the CS8) to play Pianoteq live, speakers shouldn't be a consideration (as opposed to the speaker setup of the CA97). Or should they?"

In writing this, I'd assumed that the speaker system of the CA97 would be superior enough, compared to the CA67/CS8, that Pianoteq would come shining through with live play, unlike the CS8. I do know that my CA65's speaker system cannot adequately play Pianoteq, while I've read a number of times in this forum that the CA95 has no problem in this area.

But although the CS8's speaker system is not the equal of that of the CA97, I felt that the improved sampled voices of Kawai's latest digital line would provide everything I would need, all along the octave range, to forego Pianoteq entirely. And so speakers shouldn't matter for my particular setup.

But that may be true only on paper. I would seat a new DP about six inches away from a designed cavity in my wall, allowing for greater resonance, which the CA97 could take advantage of. With its more encompassing sound, and providing a greater personal tactile feel, the CA97 might prove to be a more attractive upgrade, especially since it would cost only a few hundred dollars more than the CS8. Much depends, then, on how these models are setup in a display room. With cost aside, if I determine that these two models provide a reasonably comparable playing experience, the cabinet design of the CS8 will obviously win out.

I'm walking quite well without crutches now, and I believe that the doctor will send me back to work within the next two weeks. If so,I should be able to travel out of town sometime in July. I think one of these two Kawai models will find a place in my heart, but before buying I will have to sell off my CA65. I plan on asking for $1,800 and settling for $1,500. If I could ask you for your opinion, James, do you believe that this is a reasonable asking price?

Thanks for reading.

Jmaktai, regarding your first query, this procedure sounds plausible in theory, but I have no idea if it would lead to successful results in practise.

Kind regards,
James
x

Hello ADWyatt,



Please note that each Kawai DP is EQ'd for the built-in piano sounds, to ensure they deliver the richest sounded possible. We do of course test however this influences the Line In sound (in addition to MP3/WAV audio played from a USB device), however our focus is obviously on effectively reproducing the instrument's piano sounds.

That's not to say that the CS8/CA97's speaker system will be unable to reproduce the Pianoteq sound clearly, just that it's not the highest priority when designing and EQ-ing the instrument.



I believe you should set a price that you believe represents the value of the piano. You may also wish to search online for recent eBay and Craigslist sales in order to check the typical price set by others for the same instrument. For example, here is a recent Craiglist entry for a CA65 being offered for $2150. This doesn't necessarily mean that the instrument will sell for that price, of course.

All the best with your recovery.

Kind regards,
James
x

I played an iPhone app piano through the CS10 sound system in the piano store. It was so amazing a crowd gathered to see if their ears were telling the truth.

That said the regular CS11 sound isn't great in my carpeted apartment. I guess it still sounds better than (or has more realism than) any other onboard system. I don't think I would give it up. I'll try the VST app again tomorrow and report back. Using it in the store was as close to playing a real acoustic as I could have imagined, barring real escapement.

The cabinet was totally worth the price over the CA 96, in my opinion. I'd probably get over it had I bought the CA97 but Im glad I got what I got.

2) Given the "not so big" ~$300 difference between CA97 and CS8, can owners of CS8 elaborate what factors swayed you towards the CS8?

Very simply, to have a piece of furniture that looks beautiful
As I mentioned, I was surprised at myself for going this way, but I've never regretted it. Of course it makes no difference to the sound or the physical playing experience, but psychologically and emotionally, I enjoy seeing and playing a more beautiful instrument.

Hi Barbaram,

It seems to me that you've pretty much answered your own question, at least as regards your personal situation. In that regard, my decision on whether to purchase the CS8 or CA97 mirrors yours.

If the CA97's speaker system provides a dramatically more immersive playing experience, then I would choose that DP over the CS8. But if the two units provide fairly comparable output in my opinion, then there is no question that the superior cabinet styling of the CS8 would win the day. Furniture appearance does matter, a lot.

But making a playing comparison between these two models is going to be quite difficult. Where will each instrument be displayed in the store, and what type of flooring will the store use compared to my carpeted room? And to make matters worse, I will only be able to spend one afternoon making comparisons.

For me, it will most likely come down to Kawai's latest tone samples. I've read that the overall tones of the CA97/67 are a good step up from the CA65's. If that's true, then I believe that I would be perfectly happy with the performance of the CS8, as I would be playing in a 13'x13' carpeted room at a maximum volume of two-thirds from the bottom. In that case, the CS8 would sound great for me and would be a truly beautiful showpiece instrument.