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Originally Posted by Eduard Hanslick
I think we are going to go an entire competition without hearing a Mozart sonata. Is it possible?? Only if Rachel Kudo makes it to the Semifinals will we hear one.

Not such a bad thing. Mozart's sonatas, for reasons I have never been able to grasp, collectively comprise some of his least successful music. frown


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I'm still working through the performances I missed, and the Hamelin's holding up pretty well for me even after the 20th time or so through it.

4 years ago, with Birichino, it felt like a game of who gave the "right" performance (decoding the title and figuring out to bring out the humor). This time around, it feels like there's more latitude for interpretation, with pianists giving excellent performances that are very different from each other. Depending on who's been playing it and what aspect they chose to emphasize, I've heard echoes of everything from Scarbo to Scriabin to Gershwin. It's nice when a piece is that versatile.

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Wake up! It's back! laugh Su Yeon Kim just started playing.


They've had about two months to prepare the Hamelin. I've found this:
Quote
4. The commissioned work will be sent to pianists no later than March 25, 2017.

http://cliburn2017.medici.tv/en/page/rounds-and-repertoire


Last edited by Albunea; 05/29/17 11:17 AM.
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Originally Posted by kcostell
I'm still working through the performances I missed, and the Hamelin's holding up pretty well for me even after the 20th time or so through it.

4 years ago, with Birichino, it felt like a game of who gave the "right" performance (decoding the title and figuring out to bring out the humor). This time around, it feels like there's more latitude for interpretation, with pianists giving excellent performances that are very different from each other. Depending on who's been playing it and what aspect they chose to emphasize, I've heard echoes of everything from Scarbo to Scriabin to Gershwin. It's nice when a piece is that versatile.


I kind of agree, although did you see the video where Hamelin talked about the piece? He said there are really not many possible interpretations of it, and it should be fairly clear from the score which (fairly narrow) range of interpretations he was aiming at. The contestants get the score without dynamic markings, right? I remember a photo from the 2013 competition where they have just received the actual Birichino score and are looking at it intently to see if they guessed right about this and that.

Anyway the Hamelin Toccata has proved to be a formidable earworm. The opening bars have lodged in my brain and will not leave. Unfortunate since the opening bars are the segment I like least, I kind of like it overall.

Last edited by Eduard Hanslick; 05/29/17 11:16 AM. Reason: sip of coffee
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If Mozart is as difficult as most seem to say. wouldn't it be good strategy to include it in a solo recital IF the pianist thought they could pull it off successfully? Perhaps not in the Cliburn because of the required Mozart Concerto later in the competition, but at least in other competitions that didn't have a Mozart requirement? Or maybe even in the Cliburn in order to increase one's chances of advancing to the semifinals? After all, wouldn't it say a lot to the judges to pull off a piece that many are afraid to play? I think many/some of the pianists at this level would have the technical and musical skill to play Mozart well.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If Mozart is as difficult as most seem to say. wouldn't it be good strategy to include it in a solo recital IF the pianist thought they could pull it off successfully? Perhaps not in the Cliburn because of the required Mozart Concerto later in the competition, but at least in other competitions that didn't have a Mozart requirement? Or maybe even in the Cliburn in order to increase one's chances of advancing to the semifinals? After all, wouldn't it say a lot to the judges to pull off a piece that many are afraid to play? I think many/some of the pianists at this level would have the technical and musical skill to play Mozart well.


The thing is that while Mozart is difficult to work out musically, it is not acrobatically or acoustically impressive. The trend these days is to pick something that is lush, replete with sweeping gestures and plenty of opportunities to show off octaves, arpeggios, chords and chromatic scales at blazing dynamics and speed. That's why Prok 7, Rach 2, Liszt Sonata etc. are so popular among competitors. There is so much emphasis on volume and speed in conservatory training these days.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If Mozart is as difficult as most seem to say. wouldn't it be good strategy to include it in a solo recital IF the pianist thought they could pull it off successfully? Perhaps not in the Cliburn because of the required Mozart Concerto later in the competition, but at least in other competitions that didn't have a Mozart requirement? Or maybe even in the Cliburn in order to increase one's chances of advancing to the semifinals? After all, wouldn't it say a lot to the judges to pull off a piece that many are afraid to play? I think many/some of the pianists at this level would have the technical and musical skill to play Mozart well.


On some level I agree, but then there's the thought that even in this competition there's enough of a difference between a very good pianist and a fantastic pianist. Why not just stick to something your comfortable with and that isn't as daunting to pull off while simultaneously being glad that you're already made it quite far before exposing your playing in such a transparent way?

I guess we could use Bercu's and Kudo's Bach as an example of such a risk that in one case highlighted a pianist strengths, but then in the other case exposed weaknesses.

Last edited by MikeN; 05/29/17 11:44 AM.
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Seems like the "classical" slot on the program is being filled with mostly Haydn, or sometimes two Scarlatti sonatas, rather than Mozart. This was mostly true in 2013 too. I guess the question is why?

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Ahh, a classmate played the Vallee d'Obermann a couple semesters ago. First time I heard it, and I've loved it ever since.

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I like how the NY Steinway is getting almost no love. To me it is muddy across all registers and unable to project a singing line with clarity. Especially for Romantic repertoire like Kim's Schumann/Liszt, I can't imagine how lackluster it would sound on the NY.

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In 2013, 8 Haydn sonatas were programmed and played by 10 contestants.

11 Scarlatti sonatas were programmed, mostly in pairs. They were more likely to be programmed in the semifinals rather than the opening two rounds.

3 Mozart sonatas were programmed, plus Mozart Fantasia, Mozart Rondo, and two different sets of Mozart variations.

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Originally Posted by Spaetensonaten
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If Mozart is as difficult as most seem to say. wouldn't it be good strategy to include it in a solo recital IF the pianist thought they could pull it off successfully? Perhaps not in the Cliburn because of the required Mozart Concerto later in the competition, but at least in other competitions that didn't have a Mozart requirement? Or maybe even in the Cliburn in order to increase one's chances of advancing to the semifinals? After all, wouldn't it say a lot to the judges to pull off a piece that many are afraid to play? I think many/some of the pianists at this level would have the technical and musical skill to play Mozart well.


The thing is that while Mozart is difficult to work out musically, it is not acrobatically or acoustically impressive. The trend these days is to pick something that is lush, replete with sweeping gestures and plenty of opportunities to show off octaves, arpeggios, chords and chromatic scales at blazing dynamics and speed. That's why Prok 7, Rach 2, Liszt Sonata etc. are so popular among competitors. There is so much emphasis on volume and speed in conservatory training these days.
One could include both though. Just replace, for example, one of the Haydn Sonatas by a Mozart Sonata.

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What if all the finalists are South Korean? laugh We need this girl in the finals. There are too few girls and this recital of hers is being very enjoyable. smile

Something cute I've found out: Carroccia will play some Czerny. Hurrah!

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Originally Posted by MikeN
Ahh, a classmate played the Vallee d'Obermann a couple semesters ago. First time I heard it, and I've loved it ever since.
I heard it played by Horowitz at Carnegie live many moons ago.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Spaetensonaten
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If Mozart is as difficult as most seem to say. wouldn't it be good strategy to include it in a solo recital IF the pianist thought they could pull it off successfully? Perhaps not in the Cliburn because of the required Mozart Concerto later in the competition, but at least in other competitions that didn't have a Mozart requirement? Or maybe even in the Cliburn in order to increase one's chances of advancing to the semifinals? After all, wouldn't it say a lot to the judges to pull off a piece that many are afraid to play? I think many/some of the pianists at this level would have the technical and musical skill to play Mozart well.


The thing is that while Mozart is difficult to work out musically, it is not acrobatically or acoustically impressive. The trend these days is to pick something that is lush, replete with sweeping gestures and plenty of opportunities to show off octaves, arpeggios, chords and chromatic scales at blazing dynamics and speed. That's why Prok 7, Rach 2, Liszt Sonata etc. are so popular among competitors. There is so much emphasis on volume and speed in conservatory training these days.
One could include both though. Just replace, for example, one of the Haydn Sonatas by a Mozart Sonata.


There are many more dramatic flourishes and rhetorical gestures in Haydn's piano music than in Mozart's. Any opportunity to shock and awe!

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Originally Posted by Spaetensonaten
I like how the NY Steinway is getting almost no love. To me it is muddy across all registers and unable to project a singing line with clarity. Especially for Romantic repertoire like Kim's Schumann/Liszt, I can't imagine how lackluster it would sound on the NY.
Although I also prefer the Hamburg Steinway's sound, maybe this choice is a result of relatively few American pianists in the competition? My guess is that non American pianists would be much more familiar with and used to the Hamburg Steinway. I think it gets a little embarrassing that they announce each time that Pianist X will play the Hamburg Steinway "sent from Steinway in New York".

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I want to know if the jurors look ahead at the competitor's future programs and whether they do, or don't want to hear a particular piece played by that competitor influences their decision.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by MikeN
Ahh, a classmate played the Vallee d'Obermann a couple semesters ago. First time I heard it, and I've loved it ever since.
I heard it played by Horowitz at Carnegie live many moons ago.


I'm sure it was thrilling. I certainly wish I could've gotten such a chance.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Spaetensonaten
I like how the NY Steinway is getting almost no love. To me it is muddy across all registers and unable to project a singing line with clarity. Especially for Romantic repertoire like Kim's Schumann/Liszt, I can't imagine how lackluster it would sound on the NY.
Although I also prefer the Hamburg Steinway's sound, maybe this choice is a result of relatively few American pianists in the competition? My guess is that non American pianists would be much more familiar with and used to the Hamburg Steinway. I think it gets a little embarrassing that they announce each time that Pianist X will play the Hamburg Steinway "sent from Steinway in New York".



Good point. It doesn't help that there are no Central or South American pianists in this edition either. They should be as familiar to NY Steinways as North American pianists as that's what Steinway also supplies those regions with.

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They have started strong, because Pierdomenico is doing fantastic too. And I love it that they look comfortable and focused.

I can see the pieces in this round will be more to my taste in general. Maybe that's why there were so many banging pieces in the previous round? They are keeping a different style for the next.

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