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Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2640559
05/06/17 06:33 AM
05/06/17 06:33 AM
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FrostyKeys Offline OP
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Hi. Still here, still following the thread and still using the course. I have had a busy week at work so I have not been able to practice much. So far I have done the accompaniment to the first 2 songs and started working on adding the melody to the first. I am still debating if I should just finish follow the lessons in order and learn to add the melody after I have a solid foundation on the chords. One thing I have been doing as DH suggested in a you tube video, was sit down even for 5 minutes reviewing the chords to get the feel for them. I think this does help, but I need to devote more time.

As far as my thoughts on accompiament vs. solo, I would say the I think the course does teach both, but he makes frequent comments about accompianmemt is how the professionals play, which is true assuming you are in a pop group or band.

I personally want to focus on solo. And like I said before it seems that it is covered in depth, but fast. One thing I wish is that the course could be downloaded, or streamed. Currently I use my laptop(yes I have an old one with a cd drive lol), because for the solo part, I have to watch him do a bar or two, pause it, go back a few seconds and repeat.

In terms of the statement that not all songs are made for solo, I strongly disagree. You can find someone doing virtually any song on you tube. I have even seen rap songs that sound good as solo piano.

I have not gone through the whole course, but I do not think it teaches how to play by ear or improvise, but I can't confirm that. I think there is a large amount of good information in this course, I don't think this course would be the only training you need or that you will become a pro when you are done. That's unrealistic for any course. I think the course will give you a good strong solid foundation so that you can apply the ideas to other songs. I will probably buy the supplements later on as I am deeper into the course. I imagine at least the rhythms would be a great addition.

While they promote that you do not Have to read music, that is only true for the accompianment part, however, if you do know basic theory it will help a great deal.

Last edited by FrostyKeys; 05/06/17 07:22 AM.
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Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2640606
05/06/17 09:48 AM
05/06/17 09:48 AM
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I agree that this isn't the only course a person would study. What I would say is that this course gives a good foundation from which a person will have enough experience to make wiser choices as to what to study next, depending on what a person wants to do.

As for his statement that not every song is suitable for solo performance, I agree with him that his method probably doesn't apply well to every song. However, that is part of where the idea of further study comes in. Clearly, we have seen Youtube videos with most any style of song getting solo piano treatment. So, if a person wants to play a song that doesn't fit the style taught by this course, that person now has the facility to learn other techniques that allow him or her to learn to play that tune and expand the repertoire and tool set accordingly.

Every musician has to do this, which is why I didn't even think to mention it my posts. It is the lifelong process of continuing to grow as a musician. anyone who really believes that one course does it all and then we are good to go forever and ever, really needs to reconsider such beliefs. It is this lifelong learning process that makes music such a worthwhile pursuit.

To me, this is why having several courses is advantageous. We can get many perspectives as well as new information and teaching from each. It really does never end. If it did, we would get bored eventually.

When I talked to David Jr. on the phone, he was quite adamant that I would be surprised at how often a piano player must accompany somebody else, and that this is something not often focused on by courses like this (i.e. self-study). I don't have to agree with everything the teacher says as long as I am getting what I need from the teaching.

to me, there is an element of common sense we each apply to these courses, We don't have to follow them in blind faith. We are adults making choices for ourselves in every area of our lives, and this area should be no different. So, when I post, this is (to me) a foregone conclusion that should not need to be stated. Instead, I can focus on what the course does provide. Maybe I am wrong in this assumption?

I mentioned in earlier posts that I ripped the DVDs and therefore have MP4 videos of each lesson individually on my Microsft Surface PC. I run these in Transcribe! whee I can slow them WAY down, and loop small sections. As I attend to a given lesson, I go through and mark loop sections so I can focus on each in turn, playing it over and over slowly, and gradually speeding up to full speed. This is the technology we have today, and is quite easy to use. Since I am not giving these to anybody else, I see nothing wrong with doing this if it helps me to learn.

My approach to these sorts of problems (i.e. the DVD lesson goes too fast), is to find a solution and apply it. Again, I assume that folks are aware of the technologies available to do this (perhaps wrong assumption?). This is how I knew how complete the solo section really is. Repeated viewings at slow speed is like peeling through the layers to get all the information embedded in the lesson. These solo lessons are quite dense.

Tony



Last edited by TonyB; 05/06/17 09:51 AM.
Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: TonyB] #2640693
05/06/17 02:45 PM
05/06/17 02:45 PM
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FrostyKeys Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TonyB


As for his statement that not every song is suitable for solo performance, I agree with him that his method probably doesn't apply well to every song. However, that is part of where the idea of further study comes in. Clearly, we have seen Youtube videos with most any style of song getting solo piano treatment. So, if a person wants to play a song that doesn't fit the style taught by this course, that person now has the facility to learn other techniques that allow him or her to learn to play that tune and expand the repertoire and tool set accordingly.



Yeah, I should have been more clear. Almost any song can be played as a piano solo in general , but not all fall into the patterns taught here. But I think with some altercations, you may be able to make it work. For example in the first solo lesson, you pick up missed right hand notes with the left hand, or melody notes. This is where some theory knowledge will help.

Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2640724
05/06/17 04:21 PM
05/06/17 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by FrostyKeys


Yeah, I should have been more clear. Almost any song can be played as a piano solo in general , but not all fall into the patterns taught here. But I think with some altercations, you may be able to make it work. For example in the first solo lesson, you pick up missed right hand notes with the left hand, or melody notes. This is where some theory knowledge will help.


Yes, I agree with you. I am saying that there are other techniques not taught in this course to handle many more styles that would allow you to play songs that may not work in this style. As an example, stride would work very well with the very tune he uses as an example of what won't work in the style taught by DH. Boogie woogie styling may work with still other tunes.

I definitely disagree with the idea that most piano playing is to accompany other people singing or playing. There are many folks who play for their own enjoyment or a few friends who will always play solo, or at least much of the time. So do those who play piano bars and cocktail lounges.

So you and I are definitely in agreement about that. However, in defense of this course, I think one of its strengths is that it is able to do a very good job of limiting the scope of what it teaches so you get the entire skill set intended, and only that. Too many of these courses try to teach too much and end up not doing a very good job of any of it.

Tony


Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2640979
05/07/17 12:52 PM
05/07/17 12:52 PM
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With self-study, it is all too often difficult to know when it is time to move on to the next lesson. DH gives some ideas about that, saying that when you can play a given tune 5 times in a row without mistakes, you can move on.

Here is another idea I am finding useful...

Play the tune along with the "Listening CD". If you can do it at full speed without stumbling or making other mistakes, then you know the material. From the song "Today" on, he moves along at a pretty good pace, so this is good test of how well you REALLY know these chords and can smoothly change from one to another.

Instead of sailing along and maybe getting through a tune within a week or two, the above test may prove you need 4 or 5 weeks to get through it. However, the good thing in this is that you then know you are really getting what you should from the course.

We often tend to sell these self-study courses short, when in fact, we may be not spending the time to really learn the material before moving on. At the end of the course, assuming we stick with it that long, we may find that we really didn't accomplish what we had hoped, and then blame the course. This is one place where a "real" live teacher can make a HUGE difference because s/he can hold us accountable for really doing the work properly, as long as it takes to do so.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 05/07/17 12:53 PM.
Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: TonyB] #2641016
05/07/17 02:22 PM
05/07/17 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyB
We often tend to sell these self-study courses short, when in fact, we may be not spending the time to really learn the material before moving on.


Absolutely !

Those of us who have been through a few of these courses know this to be true.

The problem is that we get impatient and the "promise" of some other course appeals to us instead of the same old stuff we have been working on for a couple of months. So we leap into that ... only to find that it, too, is not perfect. Then, we may go back to a course we quit on 2 or 3 years ago and find it appealing again.

My solution for that is to employ a teacher periodically to evaluate my skill set and give me direction. I will work with a teacher for a bit (2 or 3 months) and then take a break and do my own thing for a bit and then back with a teacher. That seems to work for me now.



Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2641026
05/07/17 02:55 PM
05/07/17 02:55 PM
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That idea of using the services of a teacher for short periods seem like a really good idea. I would have to find one that is both willing to do that AND teach me material that is consistent with whatever method I am working on.

Tony


Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: TonyB] #2641032
05/07/17 03:11 PM
05/07/17 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyB
That idea of using the services of a teacher for short periods seem like a really good idea. I would have to find one that is both willing to do that AND teach me material that is consistent with whatever method I am working on.

Tony



Well, first of all ... the teacher does not have to know you are going to be employing them for short bursts. I just find one on the internet and work through Skype. I have 3 or 4 that I move around between periodically. They are all jazz piano professionals and they pick me up where I am and make suggestions as to what they think I should be doing and we work on that for a bit (few weeks). The time I work with them depends upon how I think things are going and whether or not I think I need a break to do MY OWN THING for a bit. I may go for a month or 6 months ... I really do not know going in how long I will stay.

And the part about being consistent with the method you are working on ... that will be more difficult. I usually do not force that. I let them lead ... which is what I am paying them for ... and just see how it goes. Usually, I am pleased with what they come up with. If not, I jump ship and move on.

As far as which teachers to use, you will just have to find them ... try them ... and keep the best and discard the rest.

There are a ton of them available on the internet.



Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2641042
05/07/17 03:41 PM
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Thanks DMD. Good points. I had not thought about using the internet for that. Skype would be a good tool for lessons. I took a 15 week guitar class via an online meeting site that was held every Sunday morning (for my local time) for 3 hours. The person teaching the class was located in Thailand (originally from Finland), and there were 12 students, all from different parts of the world. The intent of the class was to teach how to rally hear a recording and quickly figure out the key and the chords, and the melody by ear, and then make a solo fingerstyle arrangement of the tune. It was an interesting experience with surprisingly few glitches.

Tony


Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2641107
05/07/17 09:18 PM
05/07/17 09:18 PM
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Hi all, this is my first post on this forum. Not sure if this info has already been mentioned here,but I'm an adult beginner, and learning keyboard using a British online system called Gigajam. It is a system used by over 1000 schools in uk, focus on pop music education, and they can issue grade 1-5 keyboard certificate (with London college of music). I found it very helpful.

Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2641113
05/07/17 09:59 PM
05/07/17 09:59 PM
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Thanks for the info,Ralph and welcome to the forum! Currently, I am fully immersed in the David Higgonson course and am also learning the style I want to play by ear off of CDs. If I run out of steam, I will certainly consider Gigajam. I would guess that others here would be interested in another online resource too. If any other threads about self-study courses pop up, feel free to bring your information up there too.

I looked at the gigjam.com site and it looks interesting.

Thanks...

Tony


Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: TonyB] #2641121
05/07/17 10:21 PM
05/07/17 10:21 PM
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No problem, enjoy!

Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2641256
05/08/17 08:41 AM
05/08/17 08:41 AM
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There really isn't any more for me to say about the DH course. Hopefully, questions have been answered and I am certain there is more than enough information about the course both here and on the course site for folks to decide whether or not it is for them.

There really isn't a need for a study group. all you have to do is sit down at the piano every day and do what David Higginson says to do in the course. Time away from the course spent on the internet talking about the course really doesn't do anybody much good, since it has already been discussed many times over here and in other threads.

It now simply comes down to either a person reading this thread decides to bu the course or not. If not, then this thread has no more use to that person. If so, then this thread also has no more use because from the point of decision on, it is a matter of getting and doing what the course says. The motivation comes from the desire to learn, and not from gabbing about it in a forum.

Tony


Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: TonyB] #2645717
05/21/17 01:21 PM
05/21/17 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyB
There really isn't any more for me to say about the DH course. Hopefully, questions have been answered and I am certain there is more than enough information about the course both here and on the course site for folks to decide whether or not it is for them.



Might be too late but I will try to sneak in one more question.

TonyB I appreciate your detailed description and analysis. Do you know enough about the Willie Myette program to be able to compare/contrast to the DH course? I watched a YouTube video of Myette and he has an appealing teaching style, and I think that he may offer supplementary Skype lessons which would seem to be beneficial. However Myette is the ongoing subscription model as opposed to buying the materials like DH and I prefer the latter, although this part would not be the deciding factor for me.

Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: tm3] #2645804
05/21/17 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tm3
TonyB I appreciate your detailed description and analysis. Do you know enough about the Willie Myette program to be able to compare/contrast to the DH course? I watched a YouTube video of Myette and he has an appealing teaching style, and I think that he may offer supplementary Skype lessons which would seem to be beneficial. However Myette is the ongoing subscription model as opposed to buying the materials like DH and I prefer the latter, although this part would not be the deciding factor for me.


I have utilized both and would say this ....

First, of all .... Willie Myette focuses mostly on jazz piano topics and Higgensen is more with pop piano.

Higgensen relies on arpeggiating the accompaniment with a combination of left hand and right hand techniques while fitting the melody in during that arpeggiating.

Myette presents a multitude of methods for playing and accompanying. He basically just shows you how to play things and you copy what he shows you. He also has a ;program where he will tell you which videos you should do next in order to receive the education you are looking for. He is very good and thorough. However, I could never find a "path" to follow so that I felt I was getting somewhere. I always felt that I was just jumping around and hoping for the best. That might have been my impatience at work, so you may wish to try his stuff for a while and see for yourself.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: dmd] #2645867
05/21/17 10:24 PM
05/21/17 10:24 PM
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Thanks, dmd. My impression from the www site was that it seemed somewhat disorganized and hard to follow. Sounds like his course might be the same way.

Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: dmd] #2646044
05/22/17 02:21 PM
05/22/17 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by tm3
TonyB I appreciate your detailed description and analysis. Do you know enough about the Willie Myette program to be able to compare/contrast to the DH course? I watched a YouTube video of Myette and he has an appealing teaching style, and I think that he may offer supplementary Skype lessons which would seem to be beneficial. However Myette is the ongoing subscription model as opposed to buying the materials like DH and I prefer the latter, although this part would not be the deciding factor for me.


I have utilized both and would say this ....

First, of all .... Willie Myette focuses mostly on jazz piano topics and Higgensen is more with pop piano.

Higgensen relies on arpeggiating the accompaniment with a combination of left hand and right hand techniques while fitting the melody in during that arpeggiating.

Myette presents a multitude of methods for playing and accompanying. He basically just shows you how to play things and you copy what he shows you. He also has a ;program where he will tell you which videos you should do next in order to receive the education you are looking for. He is very good and thorough. However, I could never find a "path" to follow so that I felt I was getting somewhere. I always felt that I was just jumping around and hoping for the best. That might have been my impatience at work, so you may wish to try his stuff for a while and see for yourself.




I have been out of town for the past week and am only now starting to catch up with emails and internet, so it is a good thing that DMD stepped in.

I agree with DMD's assessment. DH's course is very focused and therefore covers a rather limited range of material. On the surface, this may not sound very good, but it really is - if what he covers is what you want to learn. In my case, the DH course is a good match. The course is getting me on my feet, so to speak so that my hands are doing what I want them to do. After I have completed this course, I will be ready to tackle Willie Myette's materials.

As DMD said, you will be pretty much guiding yourself through Willie Myette's (WM) materials, but WM is a great teacher. You just need to be ready to tackle it. Another way to prepare would be to tkae his basic piano course.

Tony

Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2646104
05/22/17 05:19 PM
05/22/17 05:19 PM
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Can someone make a video of what they can play after doing these types of courses? I'm very curious. I learned classically but I can read lead sheets.. it's just a melody line and I improvise arpeggios for the chords. I wonder how these courses get enough material to teach.


~piano teacher in training~
Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: hello my name is] #2646150
05/22/17 07:50 PM
05/22/17 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hello my name is
Can someone make a video of what they can play after doing these types of courses? I'm very curious. I learned classically but I can read lead sheets.. it's just a melody line and I improvise arpeggios for the chords. I wonder how these courses get enough material to teach.


Here you go ... (Not me)


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...FCED9B1C416D&fsscr=0&FORM=VDFSRV

Last edited by dmd; 05/22/17 07:51 PM.

Don

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Re: Best way to learn pop piano? [Re: FrostyKeys] #2646192
05/22/17 10:03 PM
05/22/17 10:03 PM
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Thanks DMD! Is there rhyme or rhythm to the choice of how the arpeggio is played? I mix mine up myself as well, but I'm not sure how I would explain it to someone else as to why I do what I do.


~piano teacher in training~
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