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Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor #2643742
05/15/17 01:16 PM
05/15/17 01:16 PM
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I brought my iLoud Micro Monitor speakers to a local music store that had a Roland LX-17 and a Roland HP-603.

The LX-17 sound was light years ahead of the HP-603. I then attached the iloud Micro Monitor speakers to the HP-603 placing them on top of the HP-603 using the tilt up rubberized legs to aim right at the ears and the LX-17 was maybe only one light year ahead!
I will not claim that the iloud Micro Monitor speakers make the HP-603 sound as good as the LX-17 but considering the price of the speakers - $299.99 the improvement was enormous.
My guess is that a HP-603 with the iloud Micro Monitor speakers AND a subwoofer could get the HP-603 get fairly close to the LX-17 at a fraction of the cost.

If you own a HP-603 or the DP-603 you must try the iloud Micro Monitor speakers!


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Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644014
05/16/17 08:29 AM
05/16/17 08:29 AM
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Falsch Offline
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Even if extra monitors improve the HP603's sound, the LX-17 will still be cleaner/smaller and nicer to look at. The sound placement of that piano won me over. I was in the following situation.

Shortlist:

- Yamaha CLP-585
- Kawai CA-67 and CS-8
- Roland LX-7

The Yamaha dropped off the list in like 10 minutes. Resonances were shorter than the ones in my MP7, the Bösendorfer sound was miked from too far away, and customizability was zilch.

The keyboard of the CA-67 and CS-8 were wonderful. I liked the piano's through my headphones; obviously I was a bit biased because of the MP7 in that regard.

The resonances and tone interaction in the LX-7 through the headphones... wow. Compared to that, the Kawai sounded a bit... shortchanged.

However, I didn't like the sound through the speakers. Too muffled, not enough definition. The LX-7 was the worst of the lot, despite the much higher price than the CA-67 and CS-8. I didn't try the CA-97 or the CS-11... because even if they were the perfect piano, I couldn't get one of them into my apartment as they are single piece units.

Seeing the rave reviews online with regard to the LX-17, I took a huge chance and bought it sight unseen.

The keyboard is not bad, but I lament the fact that it's not a fully woodden keyboard with long sticks like the Kawai. It doesn't play worse; just different. And, my brain keeps wallowing in the raving reviews the Kawai keyboard gets. I feel that it *could* be better. What is also the case is that Kawai is an acoustic piano maker, and Roland isn't. I just like Kawai as a brand (price/performance ratio), and I like their sound. I'd probably e completely happy with a CA-97 or CS-11... if they had been in two pieces.

But the LX-17 delivers on the sound placement. It's the very best digital piano I ever heard. Is it as good or better than the CA-97/CS-11? Don't know, didn't try, as the latter two weren't an option. The LX-17 sounds awesome.... except for some notes between G5 and D6. There, something is off, with some combinations of sound board, lid setting, and note character. That needs tweaking, and it cost a lot of time to get it right. Fortunately, the Roland Piano Designer is as extensive as the Kawai Virtual Technician in that regard, and I created two very different custom piano's starting from exactly the same base. In time, I'll create another two.

If you take the time to customize the LX-17, it sounds awesome, and I think it's very hard to beat.

Last edited by Falsch; 05/16/17 08:59 AM.

Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: Falsch] #2644024
05/16/17 08:54 AM
05/16/17 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Falsch
Even if extra monitors improve the HP603's sound, the LX-17 will still be cleaner/smaller and nicer to look at. The sound placement of that piano won me over. I was in the following situation.


I agree completely with your statement. If I had deeper pockets I would have a LX-17 at my house now.
I was told that the store had a LX-17, LX-7, HP-605 and a HP-603. I brought the iLoud Micro Monitor speakers to see how much of an improvement it would make on the HP-603 and the HP-605 but alas there was no HP-605.
I didn't plug the iLoud Micro Monitor speakers into the LX-7. I liked to looks of the Walnut finish but it seemed overpriced and not in the same league with the LX-17.

If anyone reading this post has a HP-603 you really should consider the iLoud Micro Monitor speakers. They cost $299.99 but I found an open box for $249.00. If you have a HP-605 It might be worth a try also.
I would like to try the iLoud Micro Monitor speakers with the Roland FP-90. Beakybird said that the FP-90 sounds great with a subwoofer. Interesting.

At this point in time I am waiting to see if Roland can get the keyboard action working correctly on the majority of their RD-2000's and FP-90's.


The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644029
05/16/17 09:05 AM
05/16/17 09:05 AM
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The LX-17 was extremely expensive compared to even the CS-11 when I bought it. The only reason I was able to afford it is because:

- I had a year old Hammond clone organ to trade in, with matching stand and bench.
- I got a matching (mid-end) bench for free (Normally €175).
- I got the LX-17 at the German price, and another €150 off of that.

So my actual out of pocket cost was very, very low.

The only two things on the LX-17 I don't like is the C5-C6 range of notes with the default settings. The default note character, soundboard 1 or 2, and a lid position of 6 don't go together very well. You will have to change *something* (either the soundboard, the lid, or note character, or more than one) in that range, or there will be some very bad notes. They Kawai's are better, out of the box, but if you take the time to fix this problem, the LX-17 will be better in the way of resonances, responses, and sound placement.

The other weak point (IMHO), is the damper pedal. I'm now used to it, but I had had a choice, I'd prefer the much longer throw on my my MP7's 10H pedal, or even the CLP-585 pedal. I don't remember the CA-67/CS-8 pedal very well, to be honest,


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
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Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644047
05/16/17 10:32 AM
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Interesting post, brooster. I think it's great idea to add external speakers, especially as the HP603 has the same sound engine (and keys) as the top of the line LX17. (If you have the cash, I still get buying the LX for the speakers and the looks.)

I'm currently still using my Yamaha P45 and have it hooked up to an old (but rather good) 2.1 external PC speaker system. It sounds great, much better than onboard, and on par / slightly better than mid range cabinet DPs like CLP535/CN series/HP603. To my ears anyway.

I read a lot of good reviews about the iLoud Micro speakers. However, I think you pay a lot of extra for portability and for the very small size. If you use it for other purposes, and/or size really matters to you, then great, otherwise I think it's better to spend that 2-300 on a 2.1 setup.

One question - did you plug in the speakers to the headphones socket, thereby muting the speakers of the HP, or to the line out, to complement the on-board speakers?


Adult beginner, playing since October 2016
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Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: alphonsus] #2644051
05/16/17 10:51 AM
05/16/17 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by alphonsus

One question - did you plug in the speakers to the headphones socket, thereby muting the speakers of the HP, or to the line out, to complement the on-board speakers?


I plugged into the line out.
I was reading a review of the KRK subwoofers and it mentioned that the way to set it up is to use the line out into the subwoofer and then run lines out of the subwoofer to, in this case, the iLoud Micro Monitor speakers which is good because the HP-603 only has one set of line outs. I will have to try this.


The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644058
05/16/17 11:03 AM
05/16/17 11:03 AM
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Usually you will want to go through the sub woofer to the monitors as the sub will have a crossover.

A sub woofer is not to just add more bass, they are also used so the smaller mains don't have to work reproducing those bass signals, which suck up a lot of power and clarity.

Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644196
05/16/17 07:41 PM
05/16/17 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by brooster
Originally Posted by alphonsus

One question - did you plug in the speakers to the headphones socket, thereby muting the speakers of the HP, or to the line out, to complement the on-board speakers?


I plugged into the line out.
I was reading a review of the KRK subwoofers and it mentioned that the way to set it up is to use the line out into the subwoofer and then run lines out of the subwoofer to, in this case, the iLoud Micro Monitor speakers which is good because the HP-603 only has one set of line outs. I will have to try this.


That's the normal setup for a subwoofer in this scenario. The sub will play anything below the crossover frequency, filtering that out of the incoming signal, and send the rest to the speakers.

Subs connected to a receiver normally use an LFE (low frequency effects) connection. A DVD / Blu-Ray has an effects track that goes there (explosions and stuff). When playing stuff that doesn't have such a track (music), the receiver uses the crossover to split the signal into subwoofer and sattelite speakers. (I rarely hear the sub when playing music. The crossover on mine is set at 60 Hz, so it'll only start playing at around C2 and lower notes.)

In this scenario (sub and speakers connected directly to the receiver, speakers not going through subwoofer) the subwoofer's own crossover will be disabled or set to the highest possible value, so it actually plays what it receives. If you set the receiver to 100 Hz crossover, and the sub is set to play everything below 60 Hz and send out the rest to sattelite speakers, you'll lose the 60-100 Hz range. The sub receives it, but doesn't play it, and sends it to speakers that aren't connected to it.


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644202
05/16/17 07:51 PM
05/16/17 07:51 PM
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The KRK sub is gigantic and is really more for shaking your house than playing a piano. I had one, I couldn't find a single music I liked that would benefit from it. But any brand name active cinema sub that has adjustable frequency and volume will work wonders with d. piano. You can find those used online for $50 or so. It has to be active, not passive and it is important that you can adjust the crossover frequency, so you will find the sweet spot when the missing bass rolls over to the sub.


Casio PX-860, PX-150, Casio XW-P1, Roland jd-xi
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644207
05/16/17 08:21 PM
05/16/17 08:21 PM
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What kind of pianos do you guys play? I've never felt any need for a sub.

A piano is not a bass guitar. Nor a church organ. There really isn't much in the low end.

Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644332
05/17/17 09:44 AM
05/17/17 09:44 AM
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I have an HP605; but been looking to possibly upgrade the sound with a pair of Yamaha HS8, maybe first starting with a pair of JBL Pro LSR308s.

How would you rate those monitors against iLoud? Or how do you think the sound is against a LX17 to a HP605?

Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: Cinjero] #2644337
05/17/17 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
What kind of pianos do you guys play? I've never felt any need for a sub.

A piano is not a bass guitar. Nor a church organ. There really isn't much in the low end.


For me it's perhaps because I play at relatively low volume, in the evenings once kids are asleep upstairs. I used to be OK with the onboard speakers, but since I added a sub they sound really hollow and thin (mind you I have the P45 with just two 6w speakers). I love the extra depth it adds at these low volumes, but it's personal and I love bass. I play mostly classical music, I love the added bass in e.g. Chopin A minor waltz or Eb Nocturne where a lot of the left hand is way down low.

Originally Posted by Cinjero
I have an HP605; but been looking to possibly upgrade the sound with a pair of Yamaha HS8, maybe first starting with a pair of JBL Pro LSR308s.
How would you rate those monitors against iLoud? Or how do you think the sound is against a LX17 to a HP605?

Those monitors would be far superior to the iLoud, but they're massive and could be a bit unsightly on top of the piano. The 605 should have a really good speaker setup, are you unhappy with it?


Adult beginner, playing since October 2016
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Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644343
05/17/17 10:01 AM
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The HP-605 should be an excellent candidate for a 8 - 10" subwoofer.


The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: MacMacMac] #2644353
05/17/17 10:13 AM
05/17/17 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
What kind of pianos do you guys play? I've never felt any need for a sub.

A piano is not a bass guitar. Nor a church organ. There really isn't much in the low end.


It depends on the piano. If you have one with only two speakers, and no cabinet speakers, everything below 60, or even 100 Hz will be weak. The bass isn't really powerful. Therefore it can be useful to add a sub on the line-out, but in my case, that would only be a thing if the line-outs are on the back; or the cables will be unsightly.

If you play something like an LX-17 or a CLP-585, they'll blow your head off. I know the LX-17 does, especially when using soundboard 3. (1 is 'normal', 2 is same but fatter/fuller, 3 is bassy, 4 is upright, 5 is thin.)


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644358
05/17/17 10:24 AM
05/17/17 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by brooster
The HP-605 should be an excellent candidate for a 8 - 10" subwoofer.


I had the 605 for a bit. Honestly, if anything it would benefit more from a couple of small speakers for clarity/air more than a sub. It's has a decent bass response, just all the speakers hidden in the box.

Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: Zilthy] #2644359
05/17/17 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Zilthy
Originally Posted by brooster
The HP-605 should be an excellent candidate for a 8 - 10" subwoofer.


I had the 605 for a bit. Honestly, if anything it would benefit more from a couple of small speakers for clarity/air more than a sub. It's has a decent bass response, just all the speakers hidden in the box.


iLoud Micro Monitors would be worth trying with the HP-605. They can sit right on the top of the piano.


The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644381
05/17/17 11:35 AM
05/17/17 11:35 AM
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Unfortunately they seem to look ugly on the photos

Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2644387
05/17/17 11:49 AM
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Beauty is in the Ear of the Beholder.


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and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: alphonsus] #2644414
05/17/17 01:26 PM
05/17/17 01:26 PM
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Quote
Originally Posted by Cinjero
I have an HP605; but been looking to possibly upgrade the sound with a pair of Yamaha HS8, maybe first starting with a pair of JBL Pro LSR308s.
How would you rate those monitors against iLoud? Or how do you think the sound is against a LX17 to a HP605?

Those monitors would be far superior to the iLoud, but they're massive and could be a bit unsightly on top of the piano. The 605 should have a really good speaker setup, are you unhappy with it?


Let's just say, there are some suspicious sounds that occur, missing some clarity I think is a good adjective. As a small test, I hooked up a small pain of Bose and was impressed, granted their the tiny $350 pair but the sound was smooth. I would gather some facts that aren't the piano's fault---- speakers inside (obvious), can be muffled as others have noted, the bass is good, I suppose I like the clean sound; you watch youtube and sound in demos is smooth. Lastly, probably the speakers and etc are tuned to the Roland sound (modeled).

I would probably not put them on the piano itself, just next to.

Last edited by Cinjero; 05/17/17 01:27 PM.
Re: Roland LX-17 vs HP-603 and iLoud Micro Monitor [Re: brooster] #2645592
05/21/17 01:46 AM
05/21/17 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by brooster

At this point in time I am waiting to see if Roland can get the keyboard action working correctly on the majority of their RD-2000's and FP-90's.


I haven't followed the forum in quite a while. I know I'm a little off-topic, but what do you mean? Are there problems with the action in those models?

And on-topic: for the HP504, the difference in sound with a pair of LSR305 is there, but not enough to warrant using the internal sound engine. Other aspects I don't like are the somewhat low output of the line out (I have to turn the internal volume up a good bit, to hear the LSRs as well) and the noise on the output. For quite some time now, I exclusively use VSTs, most of the time on headphones (which sound better than the LSRs), and on speakers only when playing for friends.
Maybe the sound (and volume/noise) in the newer HP compares favorably enough to use it as is through monitors, but haven't had the chance to test that.


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