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Kayserburg or zimmerman #2641945
05/10/17 05:07 AM
05/10/17 05:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
C
Christenson Offline OP
Junior Member
Christenson  Offline OP
Junior Member
C

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
Hi guys,

Having a hard time to decide which of these two.

Kayserburg UH123
5799sgd

Or

Zimmermann S6
5999sgd

Is it true that the parts of these 2 are from germany and assembled in china? Kayserburg by pearl river and zimmermann by hailun.

Its so hard to decide because

Kayserburg got a lighter key while zimmermann got a heavier key but sounds abit nicer as it is taller.

Any quality issues from this 2 factories?





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Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: Christenson] #2642067
05/10/17 10:55 AM
05/10/17 10:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,939
J
joe80 Offline
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,939
It's true that both of these pianos are made in China. It's true that both of these pianos use some German parts in their construction.

Basically these pianos are now pretty good bang for the buck - the Kayserberg is getting rave reviews from pianists, technicians and dealers. I know less about the Zimmerman but Hailun is a good factory.

I think in this situation it's probably just as well to go for the piano you like the best over all. The keyboard shouldn't really be all that much heavier on one rather than the other, perhaps the piano just needs some regulation or perhaps the tone is different and gives a different perception of the touch (as can happen, strangely).

They're both good factories, good pianos, you probably won't make a bad decision with either of them.

Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: Christenson] #2642297
05/11/17 03:54 AM
05/11/17 03:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
C
Christenson Offline OP
Junior Member
Christenson  Offline OP
Junior Member
C

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
Did a bit of research yesterday

Zimmermann is bought over by C.bechstein, but to make it more affordable, they worked together with Hailun. C.bechstein did not mention where the parts comes from but will go through a check by C.bechstein technicians before assembly at hailun. After assembly, the german technicians will do a QC check as what they did in C.bechstein factory before leaving the factory. As far as i understand, zimmermann is still under C.bechstein. They are also listed in C.bechstein website.

kayserburg is a brand by pearl river, but design by L.Thomma. In the pearl river factory, there is another small factory to produce the kayserburg. The staff are specially picked and trained and they use stated of the art machine to manufacture the kayserburg. Not sure where they take their parts from but i guess some from german. Before they leave the factory, the piano will go through a QC check again. Kayserburg is owned by pearl river.

I could be wrong as I am very new to piano. So please correct me or share your knowledge. Thank you.

Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: joe80] #2642299
05/11/17 04:02 AM
05/11/17 04:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
C
Christenson Offline OP
Junior Member
Christenson  Offline OP
Junior Member
C

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
Hi Joe,

To be honest I would want to get the zimmermann but the feel of the keys are making me hesitating. My friend says it can be adjusted. Is it true? He is not a piano player but a guitar player so I dont really believe him.

It is not very heavy that i need to use a lot of strength. And also there is a knock on the keys when i release it. The kayserburg is not so noticeable with the knock.

Also both are using laminated sound board. They do sound good now but people are teling me the sound will become worst or flat in future. Does this really happen?

Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: Christenson] #2642418
05/11/17 11:41 AM
05/11/17 11:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,642
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,642
Atlanta, GA
On the Zimmerman, the action parts will be Hailun's as they produce action parts for all Bechstein brands for quite a few years now. Hammers are a different story and can be spec'd differently from Japanese hammers, German-felted hammers or Abel (German) hammers. I don't know Zimmerman's specs for hammers. Choices are made in part for cost, but often for the right pairing for sound, so it's not strictly a tiered quality choice.

I didn't see much Renner when I visited the Hailun factory 5 years ago. The strings are probably Roslau (German). The use and inclusion of a modern laminate soundboard is a good thing, designed to last longer and be more resilient to humidity fluctuations. There is no logical reason to think it would fail faster than a solid board, given the same environment and lifespan.

If you research this site regarding modern laminate boards, you will see that the educated consensus is that they are very positive for mass produced instruments, but that in marketing of traditional instruments, lack of knowledge can hold back consumers.

If there is a knocking sound, that surely can be improved. On an upright, there may or may not be obvious ways to make the changes you prefer. It's not so easy to speculate. General regulation may bring it to your liking or it may just be firmer. It could also be the damper settings...if they are off, they can greatly affect the feel, but are relatively simple to adjust.

I cannot speak directly about the Kayserburg. I enjoyed the few I played at NAMM, though it is not the place to make fine distinctions.

Good luck in your search.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
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Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: Christenson] #2642530
05/12/17 05:17 AM
05/12/17 05:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
C
Christenson Offline OP
Junior Member
Christenson  Offline OP
Junior Member
C

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
If the parts are from hailun it will be great. Heard hailun piano are comparable to yamaha and kawai. Maybe not all but some. Just thought the manufacturer be more transparent about where the major parts came from.

I will be doing the weight test on the keys to see if it is within the range. Mot sure if this is the norm for zimmermann piano but there is a 2nd hand, same model which feels the same. I will ask them if they are able to do the adjustment.

About the knock, it is not a sound. It happens when i depress the keys and i move up my finger slowly, when the key reaches the top, there seems to be something knocking back. Not sure what it is. It happens with the kayserburg too.

Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: Christenson] #2642716
05/12/17 01:52 PM
05/12/17 01:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,080
H
huaidongxi Offline
1000 Post Club Member
huaidongxi  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,080
did you take the front cover off the pianos, and have someone else depress the key and release slowly as you did, while watching the different parts of the action at work ? that is the best way to learn how the action mechanism is transmitting that extra contact. it might be part of the escapement that enables rapid repetition of the notes, which was a critical part of the evolution of the piano.

Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: Christenson] #2642840
05/12/17 11:10 PM
05/12/17 11:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 392
Memphis, TN
M
Michael Taylor Offline
Full Member
Michael Taylor  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 392
Memphis, TN
I happen to own a Kayserburg UH123. I bought it about 5 or 6 years ago. I play my piano almost everyday (normally 20 minutes or so). I have had it professionally tuned atleast once per year. After several years of ownership, I am still happy with it. I would consider buying another Kayserburg/Rittmueller. Actually, I am pining for a grand piano, but it doesn't fit into the budget.

The only complaint that I have had with my piano is the sustain pedal. It made a god-awful squeak the first couple of years. Either it has stopped or I have become tone-deaf to it.....but I think it stopped.

I have used 2 different piano tuners. One was a bit skeptical of Chinese piano's but was very complementary of how well my Kayserburg maintained its' tune.

I would like to say that (after 7 years) I have become a pretty good piano player, but that is just not that case! I am an average to mediocre beginner.....but I still love to play. If I had it to do all over again, I think I would have bought a grand piano. Convincing my wife to go along with buying a second piano has proven to be a bit of a challenge!

Best wishes!


Piano obsession started November 2010.
Ragtime Butcher
Kayserburg U123
[Linked Image]
Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: Christenson] #2642900
05/13/17 04:58 AM
05/13/17 04:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
C
Christenson Offline OP
Junior Member
Christenson  Offline OP
Junior Member
C

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 13
I settled for the zimmermann in the end. Not to say that kayserburg was not good. I really liked both of them. But i find kayserburg abit too sharp. Zimmermann is more mellow which I prefer more.

I tested the key weight, the down weight is about 52 to 56. Up weight was 20. In grams.

I think the chinese are really catching up very fast in terms of quality stuff, that is if they will put their effort in it, like hailun, kayserburg and zimmermann. Not just pianos, many other things included.

Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: Christenson] #2642939
05/13/17 07:04 AM
05/13/17 07:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 196
North Tx
D
dhull100 Offline
Platinum Subscriber
dhull100  Offline
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D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 196
North Tx
Congratulations. You will definitely perceive a variety of touches on various pianos. Barring some real problems with the action, you will adjust readily. Consider it a bit of a work out for now. Soon it will feel normal as your muscles adjust.

Re: Kayserburg or zimmerman [Re: Christenson] #2642988
05/13/17 10:00 AM
05/13/17 10:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 392
Memphis, TN
M
Michael Taylor Offline
Full Member
Michael Taylor  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 392
Memphis, TN
Congratulations!


Piano obsession started November 2010.
Ragtime Butcher
Kayserburg U123
[Linked Image]

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