Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
121 registered members (Alex Hutor, accordeur, anotherscott, 90125, AaronSF, AZNpiano, AnnInMiami, 34 invisible), 1,439 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? #2641109
05/07/17 08:33 PM
05/07/17 08:33 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1
L
liamu07 Offline OP
Junior Member
liamu07  Offline OP
Junior Member
L

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1
Just wondering how hard it is compared to the piece I am currently playing, Bach's Prelude and Fugue in C minor.

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641161
05/08/17 12:15 AM
05/08/17 12:15 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,922
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,922
Victoria, BC
The Chopin Etude is much more difficult than the Prelude and Fugue in C minor. I presume you are referring to the Prelude and Fugue in C minor from Book I of the WTC, although there is also a Prelude and Fugue in C minor from Book II of the WTC which is more difficult than that of Book I; the P&F from Book I is a 3-voice fugue while that from Book II is a 4-voice fugue.

That said, the Chopin requires a totally different technique than the Bach, so it is difficult to compare the two but, overall, the Chopin is considerably more difficult than the Bach.

If you are already playing the Bach, try the Chopin. That's the best way to find out how difficult it may be for you.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641181
05/08/17 01:55 AM
05/08/17 01:55 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member
currawong  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
I thought I'd heard all the crazy etude nicknames but that's a new one for me.


Du holde Kunst...
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: BruceD] #2641211
05/08/17 03:45 AM
05/08/17 03:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Originally Posted by BruceD
The Chopin Etude is much more difficult than the Prelude and Fugue in C minor....

Most people would consider them that way.

Quote
That said, the Chopin requires a totally different technique than the Bach, so it is difficult to compare the two....

The Bach would be harder for me.

Originally Posted by currawong
I thought I'd heard all the crazy etude nicknames but that's a new one for me.

It's an odd name (for more reasons than one) grin .....but I'd say it's.....let's see.....about the 5th most common nickname among the Chopin Etudes.

What the hey -- I'll do a count.
Sort of in order:

Revolutionary
Black Key
Winter Wind
Butterfly
Aeolian Harp
Ocean
Tristezza

I guess "Wrong Note" comes right after that. That makes it 8th.

I'm not counting things like "Octave," "in 3rds," and "in 6ths" as nicknames. If we do, then it's 11th.

So, I take it all back. It's not one of the leading nicknames. ha

Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: Mark_C] #2641214
05/08/17 04:09 AM
05/08/17 04:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 630
Estonia
N
NervousWreck123 Offline
500 Post Club Member
NervousWreck123  Offline
500 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 630
Estonia
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by BruceD
The Chopin Etude is much more difficult than the Prelude and Fugue in C minor....

Most people would consider them that way.

Quote
That said, the Chopin requires a totally different technique than the Bach, so it is difficult to compare the two....

The Bach would be harder for me.

Originally Posted by currawong
I thought I'd heard all the crazy etude nicknames but that's a new one for me.

It's an odd name (for more reasons than one) grin .....but I'd say it's.....let's see.....about the 5th most common nickname among the Chopin Etudes.

What the hey -- I'll do a count.
Sort of in order:

Revolutionary
Black Key
Winter Wind
Butterfly
Aeolian Harp
Ocean
Tristezza

I guess "Wrong Note" comes right after that. That makes it 8th.

I'm not counting things like "Octave," "in 3rds," and "in 6ths" as nicknames. If we do, then it's 11th.

So, I take it all back. It's not one of the leading nicknames. ha


A recent visit to the wikipedia page of Chopin's op. 25 no. 11 had me laughing out loud and very confused.

Apparently, "Étude Op. 25, No. 11 in A minor, often referred to as the Winter Wind in English and literarily Seasoned Plants in some other languages, is a solo piano technical study composed by Frédéric Chopin in 1836."

I'd like to know in what languages exactly is it called "seasoned plants..."


Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: NervousWreck123] #2641222
05/08/17 05:32 AM
05/08/17 05:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
W
wr Offline
9000 Post Club Member
wr  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
Originally Posted by Svenno

I'd like to know in what languages exactly is it called "seasoned plants..."



Japanese.

But I still don't know which etude this thread is about.

Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: wr] #2641223
05/08/17 05:41 AM
05/08/17 05:41 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member
currawong  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
Originally Posted by wr
But I still don't know which etude this thread is about.
Neither do I.


Du holde Kunst...
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: currawong] #2641228
05/08/17 05:55 AM
05/08/17 05:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 630
Estonia
N
NervousWreck123 Offline
500 Post Club Member
NervousWreck123  Offline
500 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 630
Estonia
Originally Posted by currawong
Originally Posted by wr
But I still don't know which etude this thread is about.
Neither do I.


Oh cmon, don't pretend you've never heard op. 25 no 5 being called the "wrong note" etude. I mean, everyone calls it that... (no sarcasm)

Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641232
05/08/17 06:07 AM
05/08/17 06:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,332
London
C
chopin_r_us Offline
2000 Post Club Member
chopin_r_us  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,332
London
Nope.

Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641234
05/08/17 06:14 AM
05/08/17 06:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 247
L
luckiest_charm Offline
Full Member
luckiest_charm  Offline
Full Member
L

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 247
Wrong Notes is arguably one of the harder etudes from all 24 of them.
The only etudes harder than that I can think of would be 3rds, chromatic, winter wind, waterfall (mainly due to ungodly large intervals), and i don't know.. maybe octaves, if they aren't your strong point.

I would place it in 70th percentile when comparing across both the opuses. For reference, I would place tristesse in 30th percentile and revolutionary in 50th. Winter wind would be in 90th, chromatic being 95th and 3rds being out of that chart.

If you're willing to continue from Bach, black keys seems more appropriate, although the possibility of hitting a lot of wrong notes at first is high. The whole RH is in black keys and they're hard to adjust with. None the less, it's a great crowd pleaser and gets all the ladies.

Or go a little easier at first with Op.10 No. 9 in F minor. That haunting melody is beautiful to listen to and presents a decent enough challenge. Then there's revolutionary.

While I haven't played any of the etudes besides revolutionary, the one I'm concurrently dealing with right now, quite of bit of the info above makes a lot of sense. As far as revolutionary is concerned, it's not giving me any major issues and is coming along great so far. I'd highly recommend it for checking the waters.

Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641237
05/08/17 06:33 AM
05/08/17 06:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 586
Australia
cathryn999 Offline
500 Post Club Member
cathryn999  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 586
Australia
Originally Posted by liamu07
Just wondering how hard it is compared to the piece I am currently playing, Bach's Prelude and Fugue in C minor.

Hello Liamu07. I don't know how hard the piece you've asked about is, but I do play the first WTC prelude and fugue, and I've played limited Chopin with limited success. Bach is to Chopin what roast beef is to sushi.

Have you played much Chopin before? If not, it sounds like, from what the others have written above, that this is one of the more difficult etudes. There are some quite accessible waltzes and preludes and even mazurkas, if you'd prefer to cut your Chopin teeth on something not so difficult. (And forgive me if I've assumed you haven't played a lot of Chopin already, when in fact you have).


The difference between dreams and reality is action.
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: NervousWreck123] #2641243
05/08/17 06:58 AM
05/08/17 06:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
W
wr Offline
9000 Post Club Member
wr  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
Originally Posted by Svenno
Originally Posted by currawong
Originally Posted by wr
But I still don't know which etude this thread is about.
Neither do I.


Oh cmon, don't pretend you've never heard op. 25 no 5 being called the "wrong note" etude. I mean, everyone calls it that... (no sarcasm)


No need to pretend - I'd never heard it called that. But thanks for identifying it.

The only nicknames for the etudes that have seemed common enough for me to know and remember, going back to my student days, are the Revolutionary, the Aeolian Harp, the Butterfly, and the Winter Wind. I think I learned the "Ocean" nickname somewhat later. I don't really think of the thirds and sixths and the black key as nicknames, since they identify technical issues involved.

I don't really much like the nicknames, since they seem to attach unnecessary extraneous ideas to the etudes, and can seem sort of childish and twee. To me, there's nothing about "the Winter Wind" that actually makes me think it even has anything to do with weather. I think it could just as easily be "the Revolutionary". Or "Splattered Arpeggios". Or "Shredded Daikon".


Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641266
05/08/17 07:56 AM
05/08/17 07:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,246
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,246
I thought Freddy was too perfect to write wrong notes. (He, unlike his pal Francis, probably never played a wrong note in his life either wink ).

Would someone like to point out the wrong notes in the Wrong Note Etude?


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: wr] #2641272
05/08/17 08:12 AM
05/08/17 08:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 279
Virginia
coaster Offline
Full Member
coaster  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 279
Virginia
Originally Posted by wr

No need to pretend - I'd never heard it called that. But thanks for identifying it.


I hadn't heard that particular nickname, either.


aka Lady Arabesque
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: coaster] #2641303
05/08/17 09:55 AM
05/08/17 09:55 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,022
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,022
Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by coaster
Originally Posted by wr

No need to pretend - I'd never heard it called that. But thanks for identifying it.


I hadn't heard that particular nickname, either.

Neither had I (I think) - however, when upon reading the thread title I knew immediately which etude was being referred to !! A lucky guess perhaps. grin


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641312
05/08/17 10:06 AM
05/08/17 10:06 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,922
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,922
Victoria, BC
The lower sixteenth-notes of the chords that fall on the beat in the right hand are called "wrong" because they are a half-tone off the expected chord. The chord is resolved a sixteenth-note later.

[Linked Image]

By the way, the melody that makes up the middle section of this Etude is, to my taste, one of Chopin's most beautiful.

[Linked Image]



One of the technical difficulties of this Etude is simply one of stretch, playing the interval of a sixth (and sometimes a seventh) with 2/5. One can't play them with 1/5 because the resolved dotted eighth-note has to be held with the thumb. This becomes even more challenging later in the Etude when those chords with the "wrong" note become three-note chords.

Regards


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: wr] #2641315
05/08/17 10:12 AM
05/08/17 10:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,326
New York City
P
Polyphonist Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,326
New York City
Originally Posted by wr
The only nicknames for the etudes that have seemed common enough for me to know and remember, going back to my student days, are the Revolutionary, the Aeolian Harp, the Butterfly, and the Winter Wind.

Another very common one is the "Cello" etude (25/7).

There are some less common nicknames I have heard for another half dozen of the etudes, but they are not in wide use.

I generally don't use nicknames when referring to any of the etudes, even the Revolutionary - I just refer to them by the number.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641320
05/08/17 10:19 AM
05/08/17 10:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,938
Finland
O
outo Offline
3000 Post Club Member
outo  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,938
Finland
When I heard that nickname the first time I immediately knew which one was meant...because it sounds like the pianist is hitting wrong notes.

Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641362
05/08/17 11:47 AM
05/08/17 11:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
For me, all of them are wrong note etudes.

Re: How hard is Chopin's Wrong Note Etude? [Re: liamu07] #2641380
05/08/17 12:45 PM
05/08/17 12:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,903
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,903
Oakland
Leonard Bernstein wrote the Wrong Note Rag.

I once tuned for a performance where Horace Silver was playing what sounded like stabbing at notes, trying to find the correct one. When he played it exactly the same way two or three times over, I thought it was one of the funniest things I had ever heard.


Semipro Tech
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
ad
Jazz Piano Online
Jazz Piano Lessons Online

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Nord Piano Monitors
by PianoManChuck. 01/21/19 05:38 PM
Questions about Pianoteq 6 and Kawai CA98
by ADWyatt. 01/21/19 01:25 PM
Question about Yamaha DGX-660
by MikeSD. 01/21/19 12:06 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics189,714
Posts2,784,457
Members92,186
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2