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Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2646011
05/22/17 12:17 PM
05/22/17 12:17 PM
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TheodorN Offline
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Thanks for this update, bsntn99. I'll try your settings. If Waves issues an update in the scripting and the programming, I'd even be willing to pay a small amount extra for that, because the basic sound is not bad.

Edit I'm also interested in whatever you'll have to say about the CFX, after playing with it. It's still an option, as far as I'm concerned, thought the crying out for an extra SSD, does put me off, and is the biggest single factor, that is keeping me from it.

Last edited by TheodorN; 05/22/17 12:22 PM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
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Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: TheodorN] #2646129
05/22/17 06:48 PM
05/22/17 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
Thanks karvala, for your detailed response. It seems the dynamics of this VSTi, are all over the place. The Giant, and the Galaxy German Baby Grand, both respond in a more normal way, dynamically.


Thanks, it's very helpful to know it's not just me. Is the Galaxy German Baby Grand any good? I quite like the Garritan CFX (it can sound gorgeous at its best), but not quite convinced about its long-term potential in all of my repertoire (it can also sound distant and noisy at times), so I'm curious to know what people are preferentially using.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: karvala] #2646185
05/22/17 09:20 PM
05/22/17 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by karvala
Did you adjust the Timbre setting at all? It has that effect, quite systematically, presumably related to the fact that that the setting causes it to effectively play a different note and transpose it back to the one you asked for, to get the different timbre.


I know this thread has moved on the the CFX, but I just wanted to update and say that you were spot on about the timbre. The preset I was using did have a timbre adjustment that just plays havoc with the display on the CFX. On some settings, if you press C, the display will show D# pressed, and then a split second later it'll add F to the mix on its own. That's just odd!


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Gombessa] #2646210
05/22/17 11:43 PM
05/22/17 11:43 PM
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Karvala, the Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand is pretty good. It has warmth, and maybe suppressed sound, but I understand that's how baby grands often sound. I would prefer it to have a bit more body, or vibration, but that goes for almost all the piano VSTs out there.

The Galaxy Vintage D is probably more upfront, with a clearer and brighter tone. Nevertheless, I have a feeling the Blüthner can be made to sound similar to the Vintage D, and I think it's good for jazz. I'm considering getting a USB audio interface, like Focusrite 2i4, hoping to improve the sound of all my libraries, also the onboard voices of my PX-5S. Now I'm using the built-in sound card.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
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Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: karvala] #2646213
05/23/17 12:02 AM
05/23/17 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by karvala
...I quite like the Garritan CFX (it can sound gorgeous at its best), but not quite convinced about its long-term potential in all of my repertoire (it can also sound distant and noisy at times), so I'm curious to know what people are preferentially using.

An interesting point you bring up there. I've heard many say, it's better to get one good VSTi, than many mediocre ones. There is some truth to that, but I don't think any single VSTi can fulfill every genre or needs, not even the CFX, as good as it probably is.

That's why I'll probably keep getting new ones, there'll always be some new (or old) piano VSTs out there, which appeal to me. $100 or a bit more, sometimes less, isn't that much money to spend on a good piano library, every now and then.

Last edited by TheodorN; 05/23/17 12:11 AM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2646358
05/23/17 12:41 PM
05/23/17 12:41 PM
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When I first touched the CFX, I noted some hiss in the samples. I looked into this a bit more last night and indeed, it seems the lower velocity samples have a lot of noise from the signal chain in the samples. If you turn up the volume and play very lightly with sustain, especially with the reverb turned off, the hiss really jumps out. So this could be an issue for pp-ppp playing. Usually the low velocity samples are recorded with some de-noising applied in post if needed. This doesn't seem to be the case with the CFX unless the signal chain was just unusually noisy. I checked my other libraries and they are clean in this regard. So this may be unique with this library. It may be possible to go back and de-noise the samples or use higher velocity samples to cover the low velocity range. I was wondering if anyone has seen this with other libraries.

Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: bsntn99] #2646364
05/23/17 12:50 PM
05/23/17 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bsntn99
When I first touched the CFX, I noted some hiss in the samples. I looked into this a bit more last night and indeed, it seems the lower velocity samples have a lot of noise from the signal chain in the samples. If you turn up the volume and play very lightly with sustain, especially with the reverb turned off, the hiss really jumps out. So this could be an issue for pp-ppp playing. Usually the low velocity samples are recorded with some de-noising applied in post if needed. This doesn't seem to be the case with the CFX unless the signal chain was just unusually noisy. I checked my other libraries and they are clean in this regard. So this may be unique with this library. It may be possible to go back and de-noise the samples or use higher velocity samples to cover the low velocity range. I was wondering if anyone has seen this with other libraries.


Yeah, it's pretty hissy alright; I notice that in quiet passages as well. A shame really; that would have been relatively easily removed in sound processing without interfering with too much else, so it is a bit strange that they didn't do it. But then I guess it's very "present" sound (relative to other piano librariesI've heard, which are not that many from the current generation in all fairness), and perhaps they were concerned that any filtering, even in that range, would have interfered with that.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Gombessa] #2646365
05/23/17 12:51 PM
05/23/17 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by karvala
Did you adjust the Timbre setting at all? It has that effect, quite systematically, presumably related to the fact that that the setting causes it to effectively play a different note and transpose it back to the one you asked for, to get the different timbre.


I know this thread has moved on the the CFX, but I just wanted to update and say that you were spot on about the timbre. The preset I was using did have a timbre adjustment that just plays havoc with the display on the CFX. On some settings, if you press C, the display will show D# pressed, and then a split second later it'll add F to the mix on its own. That's just odd!


Yeah, it's certainly a bit strange. I suppose it might be useful to know which tones are actually be used to generate the timbre, but I'm not entirely convinced it's an intentional feature (as opposed to a bug!). laugh


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: TheodorN] #2646367
05/23/17 12:55 PM
05/23/17 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
Karvala, the Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand is pretty good. It has warmth, and maybe suppressed sound, but I understand that's how baby grands often sound. I would prefer it to have a bit more body, or vibration, but that goes for almost all the piano VSTs out there.

The Galaxy Vintage D is probably more upfront, with a clearer and brighter tone. Nevertheless, I have a feeling the Blüthner can be made to sound similar to the Vintage D, and I think it's good for jazz. I'm considering getting a USB audio interface, like Focusrite 2i4, hoping to improve the sound of all my libraries, also the onboard voices of my PX-5S. Now I'm using the built-in sound card.


I guess the Blüthner is true to life in that sense; the few Blüthners that I've played have always been relatively quiet and even slightly muffled, so suppressed sounds about right. It does give me pause, though, since that's something I generally dislike; the CA67 that I have has a couple of new sampled pianos (SK-EX Concert Grand and SK5 Baby Grand), which are perfectly serviceable within the constraints of their sample sizes, but both come across as very suppressed and muffled, and need to be artificially brightened just to give them reasonable presence, but in doing so their tone is ruined. The Vintage D might be more my thing; I'll check it out. Thanks. smile


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2646436
05/23/17 03:47 PM
05/23/17 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by karvala
Yeah, it's pretty hissy alright; I notice that in quiet passages as well. A shame really; that would have been relatively easily removed in sound processing without interfering with too much else, so it is a bit strange that they didn't do it. But then I guess it's very "present" sound (relative to other piano librariesI've heard, which are not that many from the current generation in all fairness), and perhaps they were concerned that any filtering, even in that range, would have interfered with that.


Agreed.

Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: newer player] #2646437
05/23/17 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player

Agreed.



Same here, I actually like it because it sounds more like an authentic recording. I've actually wondered (only half-jokingly) whether it would be possible to add a filter that throws in a random muffled cough here and there during quiet passages, which would really give off that "playing in front of an audience" vibe.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Gombessa] #2646477
05/23/17 05:31 PM
05/23/17 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Same here, I actually like it because it sounds more like an authentic recording. I've actually wondered (only half-jokingly) whether it would be possible to add a filter that throws in a random muffled cough here and there during quiet passages, which would really give off that "playing in front of an audience" vibe.


Most of these guys have a view on adding random noise but you don't know until you try

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/post-production-forum/469578-scoring-stage-noise.html

This is a free script if you have full Kontak

http://www.beladmedia.com/scoring-noise-free/

Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2646478
05/23/17 05:32 PM
05/23/17 05:32 PM
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I always thought the goal of these piano vsts was to make you think you are playing are real acoustic grand, not a recording of one. smile

Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: bsntn99] #2648859
05/31/17 11:59 AM
05/31/17 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bsntn99
I always thought the goal of these piano vsts was to make you think you are playing are real acoustic grand, not a recording of one. smile


Well, if we're going to go there, why are there other environmental effects, like reverb smile? Miscellaneous noise happens, which is WHY it ends up on a recording (though I'm really just kidding, I don't think this would be a great feature).

One question after playing the CFX for a couple of weeks now--is there a way to automate the startup process a bit on a Mac? Every time I start CFX, I have to wait for it to load, then go to Preferences, select the MIDI-in instrument, hit Apply, then navigate to my user preset and select that. I use the same preset every time so I'd really prefer if there was a way to load it on default.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Gombessa] #2648914
05/31/17 03:33 PM
05/31/17 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
One question after playing the CFX for a couple of weeks now--is there a way to automate the startup process a bit on a Mac? Every time I start CFX, I have to wait for it to load, then go to Preferences, select the MIDI-in instrument, hit Apply, then navigate to my user preset and select that. I use the same preset every time so I'd really prefer if there was a way to load it on default.


At the top of the screen there is a dropdown called "file- save as default." After you set preferences to your liking, I think clicking "file-save as default" locks everything in for future restarts.

Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by bsntn99
I always thought the goal of these piano vsts was to make you think you are playing are real acoustic grand, not a recording of one. smile


Well, if we're going to go there, why are there other environmental effects, like reverb smile? Miscellaneous noise happens, which is WHY it ends up on a recording (though I'm really just kidding, I don't think this would be a great feature).


There is a well-known classical music audiophile named Romy who has dedicated decades to building an "end-game" audio system. It sounds spetacular. He states that trying to reproduce a live concert experience at home is an unrealistic goal with today's audio equipment & technology. His "audio" goals are significantly less ambitious.

http://goodsoundclub.com/

Unfortunately, we have it a bit more complex, as we have to deal with both the "audio" and the "playing experience."

Last edited by newer player; 05/31/17 03:35 PM.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: newer player] #2648930
05/31/17 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
At the top of the screen there is a dropdown called "file- save as default." After you set preferences to your liking, I think clicking "file-save as default" locks everything in for future restarts.


Thanks! Duh, save as default. I was too busy futzing with that nested preset pulldown that I didn't even think to go to File.

Originally Posted by newer player
There is a well-known classical music audiophile named Romy who has dedicated decades to building an "end-game" audio system. It sounds spetacular. He states that trying to reproduce a live concert experience at home is an unrealistic goal with today's audio equipment & technology. His "audio" goals are significantly less ambitious.


I can imagine this is a Herculean goal. But while we're talking about playing and not recording, there may be something to be said about simply being able to reproduce a mic'd auditorium experience from the listener's perspective, using headphones. Frankly I bet this is as close as some of us will ever get to a real concert grand in professional venue.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2650741
06/05/17 11:43 AM
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So I've been running CFX Full (compact) for a few weeks now from my MBP13, and it's great. But I had a problem where I'd regularly hear very quiet popping/clicking sounds, as if the headphones were clipping. The odd thing was that I couldn't really get it to go away even with changes to the buffer size, pre-cache and RAM allotment, and it always seemed to happen more if I started playing more forcefully, so it didn't seem like a CPU/RAM limitation.

On a whim, I unclicked the "limit" button which is default-on on the master volume slider. The popping COMPLETELY went away. Everything seems to work perfectly now. I can drop my buffer size to 128, adjust RAM and cache settings, enable the EQ function, and no audio artifacts. I didn't even realize until it stopped how it was affecting my playing (I realized that I was "cringing" a bit before passages that I knew would trigger the popping).

I think part of it is that the output from CFX is extremely quiet on my Mac. I have to completely max out the mic perspectives and the master volume in order to get a reasonable volume, and also throw in some EQ boost too. Even then, on Mac I had to push the master volume up past 50%, which caused system notifications to absolutely blast in my ears when they fire. Apparently the "Limit" function was clipping what it thought was excessive volume, but in reality just causing noise when it does.

While I wish the volume could be equalized a bit, it's a minor issue, and I'm a happy camper with CFX now.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2650749
06/05/17 12:01 PM
06/05/17 12:01 PM
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That's cool, there are so many users of the CFX experiencing that this VSTi is choking their system(s). Just turn off the Limit option, no more pops and clicks.

Regarding the low volume, are you not using an external USB audio interface? After getting the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, all my virtual instruments sound louder and clearer. Not a huge difference, but a considerable improvement.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: TheodorN] #2650753
06/05/17 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN

Regarding the low volume, are you not using an external USB audio interface? After getting the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, all my virtual instruments sound louder and clearer. Not a huge difference, but a considerable improvement.


Nope, I'm just using the Mac's built in audio interface. This is main work laptop, so I'm always carrying it around. And I use it for CFX both at home and when I get a chance to plug into an available DP at the office, so I really don't want to be carrying around too much extra stuff (I already have a spare USB-B and 1/8" extension cable in my bag). With the popping fixed, I can deal with the volume!


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2650899
06/05/17 06:02 PM
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The Garritan CFX does seem to be a bit quieter than some other piano VSTs, so I'm not too surprised to see that. It's pretty much the only time I switch to higher amplification on my headphone amp. I've also heard a few pops here and there, so looking forward to turning that limiter off and see if removes them. Not very often in my case though.

Had a couple of other weird bugs with it as well. One which has occurred twice, is that some notes have been stuck on (and loud), and had to be clicked off on the interface on the PC (i.e. by clicking the notes on the on-screen keyboard); replaying the notes on the MIDI controller did nothing. Very strange. The other one which occurred earlier today was that substantial use of the sustain pedal bizarrely caused the soft pedal to turn on and stay on, again until it was clicked. Not had that one before. I would wonder just what MIDI signals the piano is sending, but I've not experienced these problems with any VST, so I think they're just rare bugs on the CFX.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
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