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Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Gombessa] #2640465
05/05/17 08:18 PM
05/05/17 08:18 PM
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Zilthy Offline
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by CyberGene
You don't need a sound card. Macs just work, they don't even need asio drivers.


*Looks at wallet.*

*Looks at PW.*

Not the answer I was looking for, Gene. Sigh.


I feel the same way, but I think I am going to have to pull the trigger on the full version. *sigh*

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Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: lolatu] #2640468
05/05/17 08:19 PM
05/05/17 08:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
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Originally Posted by lolatu
I'm surprised Garritan even admit to such a huge fail with their software.


* Not sure this daily restart comment is fair. I run some complex statictical and math programs, the full MS Office suite, and plenty of small trivial programs. Most clearly run better with a restart every morning. Windoze 10 also runs better with a daily restart.

EDIT - BTW I don't dare run any work computer without restarting every morning.

Originally Posted by lolatu
And after waking my PC from sleep this morning, playing notes on CFX standalone resulted in weird screeching noises, until I restarted the application. So it's true, the problems occur mainly when coming back to the instrument after leaving it for a while.


* Agreed Garritan CFX does not always work well after the computer wakes from sleep. YMMV and I have other Windoze 10 issues from sleeping.

Originally Posted by lolatu
So I'm pretty sure Windows Defender, the Internet, random updaters etc are not guilty for most of the glitches.

I think the Aria programmers need to take a serious look at this and get to the root of the problem. It doesn't affect other VSTs, and there's a manual workaround, which is to clear then re-load the preset, so it's fixable.


* Maybe (maybe not) two different issues. For me, Windows Defender, the Internet, random updaters are key to getting low latency and removing glitches out of the box. Then there are performance declines as the day rolls on.

Originally Posted by lolatu
It seems that it loads the entire samples each time, then presumably discards all but the first part of the loaded data. Why not just cache these first segments on disk as a simple optimization? My Max Engine RAM is at 256 MB, and it should take only 1 s to read that from disk. That would make the re-loading workaround less onerous.


* Garritan CFX loads pretty slowly; just took 36 seconds on my laptop (Samsung 850 EVO SATA drive). For information, full classic piano takes about 40GB on the SSD. After launching Garritan CFX, RAM usage rises about 6GB.

==> Overall, Garritan CFX sounds and plays great. It required some initial system tweaking on my Windoze 10 laptop (see link above). And needs to be shut down every day.

Last edited by newer player; 05/05/17 08:23 PM.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2640473
05/05/17 08:46 PM
05/05/17 08:46 PM
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These problems users are having, getting this VSTi to work on their computers, has put me off from getting the Garritan CFX. It has strengthened me in my position, not to get a 100+/- GB piano library, and stick to the smaller ones, 3-25 GB.

It amazes me, that just to use a piano VST, one needs to almost cripple the host computer, not even allowing Wifi and antivirus programs. Maybe I should look forward to the time, my 6-year-old i7 desktop starts to break down? I can then wipe it clean, install Linux, disconnect Wifi, and run Pianoteq on it, nothing else, LOL!


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2640520
05/06/17 01:44 AM
05/06/17 01:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
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Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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My laptop is hidden in a shelf, always on and Garritan CFX Lite has been running without restart for at least three months and I play every day. It works great as always. Nor sure what Garritan have admitted but this deterioration is definitely not true.


My Soundcloud, My YouTube
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2640522
05/06/17 01:48 AM
05/06/17 01:48 AM
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Gombessa Offline
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Garritan itself may not have a leak, but it is resource intensive enough where a leak in another app may quickly impact its performance. A reboot in that case could definitely help out when if Garritan is fine.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2640523
05/06/17 01:50 AM
05/06/17 01:50 AM
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France
Frédéric L Offline
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You should tell us how much memory you have.

I think one reason for a degradation is that Windows can steal memory pages from different applications when it need some and degrade Garritan CFX. Since this one use nearly 1GB of memory, if you have the minimal requirements or load other applications in parallel, you may be more likely to have some trouble.

Some other virtual pianos can use less memory.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: TheodorN] #2640527
05/06/17 02:07 AM
05/06/17 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
These problems users are having, getting this VSTi to work on their computers, has put me off from getting the Garritan CFX.


Don't be overly influenced by internet comments. Generally for technology products:

- most users are happy and don't post comments.

- A few vocal users will post problems or are trying to push the limits (e.g. my ultrabook is not designed for demanding audio software).

In 2016, I got the thinnest laptop in the world to run Garritan CFX at very low latency. My 2007 MacBook Pro with 4GB of ram and a slow SATA 1 bus (!) was almost powerful enough; latency was just a bit high but not much. Those two datapoints indicate that decent, relatively modern computers should run Garritan CFX fine. Some tweaking will be required with any VI and YMMV.

Last edited by newer player; 05/06/17 02:08 AM.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: newer player] #2640566
05/06/17 07:59 AM
05/06/17 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player

If you still have issues, feel free to post your full config here, in my laptop recommendations thread, or just start a new thread. There are plenty of very helpful people here.

==> Edit - what are you using for an audio interface? ASIO drivers?


Yes of course with an Asio Driver. It is a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. I also tried Asio4all but that's not the problem. All these drivers work well until windows goes crazy.

The pc is based on a Z270 motherboard, core-i5 7600K, 16Gb of DDR4 RAM and 2 SSD (one for the system an one for the samples).

I was so tired to spend my time to tweak windows that I installed Ubuntu Studio, and I run now Pianoteq with the generic linux audio driver (ALSA) at 96000 Hz and 64 samples without a glitch.
As you understand, I am now limited to Pianoteq, but at least I sleep good.

Last edited by stamkorg; 05/06/17 07:59 AM.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2640656
05/06/17 01:07 PM
05/06/17 01:07 PM
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I ended up getting the Lite version. It does take a while to load initially. The normal version with all samples shows about 740 mb and the compact sus-only about 252 mb on the internal counter. The library is 22 gb, but I was able to take away the soft and sustenuto samples which saves about 7 gb on my SSD. I do get an error on loading, but it plays fine. I may try to move everything off to my hard drive. This is a big library for what it is.

The bad is on some of the samples the hammer noise is evident, not as bad though as the TruKeys Italian Grand. There is a slight amount of hiss on all the samples probably from the analog equipment used to record. The piano is quite bright and needs some eq to tame it. The internal eq is very limited. An outboard parametric eq would be better. The timber knob is weird. It does adjust the tone, but does so by using higher or lower samples, and then repitching. The compact version is pretty good, but lose the natural non damped sustain on the upper octaves. The extra presets are most weird and useless.

The samples are very clean except for the very slight hiss when you don't mess with the timber knob. Half pedaling works very well and there are a lot of options to adjust the sound. I still like the TruKeys American Grand and NI Grandeur from my other libraries, and this one is probably on par although brighter. Would be rated well above these if the hammer noise was less evident and there was less hiss on the samples. I use headphones mostly, so am very sensitive to all these nuances. I have played a Yamaha C3 and a bunch of Kawais for reference.

I listened to demos of the full version, and am glad I only got the Lite as the close mic is the main one. The other positions don't do anything for me. I paid $51 for the Lite and feel at this price it's worth it, but wouldn't pay any more or go for the full version. This is all just my opinion, so take it for what it is.

Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: stamkorg] #2641014
05/07/17 02:12 PM
05/07/17 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by stamkorg
Yes of course with an Asio Driver. It is a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. I also tried Asio4all but that's not the problem. All these drivers work well until windows goes crazy.

The pc is based on a Z270 motherboard, core-i5 7600K, 16Gb of DDR4 RAM and 2 SSD (one for the system an one for the samples).

I was so tired to spend my time to tweak windows that I installed Ubuntu Studio, and I run now Pianoteq with the generic linux audio driver (ALSA) at 96000 Hz and 64 samples without a glitch.
As you understand, I am now limited to Pianoteq, but at least I sleep good.


You have a powerful system - you should be able to run virtual instruments on Windows at very low latencies without issues.

Why don't you drop by the following computer-audio board and detail your system and issues? There are a lot of skilled people there, including a few professional audio computer builders. Incredibly helpful.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/

Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2641100
05/07/17 08:29 PM
05/07/17 08:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
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Fscotte Offline OP
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This piano is so resonant! I'm having trouble keeping it from getting out of control, even with reverb completely off and room noise down. It really changes the way I play, similar to Pianoteq.

I'd like to try and get it to sound like a typical C7, a little more dry and woody. I wonder if this is possible. So many knobs that can really change the color, especially the EQ. I find if I bring the midrange down it helps a bit, but the bass is still punchy, looking for a more rounder sound.

Last edited by Fscotte; 05/07/17 08:30 PM.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: lolatu] #2641450
05/08/17 05:10 PM
05/08/17 05:10 PM
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thanks for the reply lolatu - much appreciated

Originally Posted by lolatu
Originally Posted by minstrelman
"How can I get Windows Defender to not scan these files every time I load CFX?"

excluding it in Windows Defender.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...der-exclusions-windows-10-a.html#option1

Hey thanks - that worked a treat for speeding up the loading time. I tried both 1) excluding the folder containing the sample files, and 2) excluding the "CFX Lite.exe" process. Both worked, but the former reduced the time to 19 s while the latter reduced the time to 12 s, so it seems excluding the process is the best way.

Originally Posted by newer player
Lolatu, I have a light laptop that had the same pops.

Thanks a lot. I'll look into those if it remains a problem. It seems to be working pretty well now that I've reduced the RAM allocation. It does seem to be worse if I leave it for a bit and come back later, which supports my memory-compression theory. I'll continue to monitor the situation...

Originally Posted by Buckster
can you buy software from sweetwater internationally (from here in UK say ?)

Yes, I just did so, and paid via PayPal (though credit card would surely have worked too). Not what the VAT situation is supposed to be, but it doesn't seem like I paid any. Anyway, worked out to about £45-50 so much cheaper than buying locally. Doesn't seem quite right, but then again, I wouldn't have bought it at the higher price (that's what economists call a "deadweight loss").

So thanks for all the help guys. I'm still wondering exactly what the difference is between the Full and Compact presets - apart from the fact that the latter load more quickly.

Also I'm wondering why the presets are all such a pile of rubbish. There's not a single usable one! They're all "hey look a weird sound", without even any attempt at something absolutely basic like "concert recording". With the "full" version, at least it looks like the presets have been composed with some thought (link). So I chose a couple of random presets and made some recordings, just for you guys!

https://soundcloud.com/aetherelemental/goldberg-1-cfx-ice-crystal
https://soundcloud.com/aetherelemental/chopin-prelude-10-piano-pad

Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2641562
05/09/17 12:10 AM
05/09/17 12:10 AM
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Gombessa Offline
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OK, I pulled the trigger on CFX Grand (full version). I'm so impressed by this tone but I despise the hassle of dealing with a software piano. Fingers crossed.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2641607
05/09/17 05:11 AM
05/09/17 05:11 AM
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TheodorN Offline
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In the full CFX, when users are having problems, snap, crackle, and pop city, does it help to switch to the compact presets? Think I saw in one video, that there are compact presets, supposedly to help with performance issues.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2641616
05/09/17 06:03 AM
05/09/17 06:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,933
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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Compact presets use less sample layers per key. I would NEVER do that. That's me.


My Soundcloud, My YouTube
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2641660
05/09/17 09:27 AM
05/09/17 09:27 AM
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TheodorN Offline
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Can you explain what you mean by sample layers per key? According to Garritan's website, the Lite has the same number of sample layers of detail, as they call it, as the full CFX, 20, but only one microphone pair, instead of six. I thought that was the only difference.

https://www.garritan.com/products/cfx-concert-grand-virtual-piano-lite/cfx-lite-features-benefits/

Edit I'm equating the compact presets from within Garritan CFX full, with the CFX Lite. Maybe that's not the same thing?

Last edited by TheodorN; 05/09/17 09:44 AM.

My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: TheodorN] #2641700
05/09/17 11:37 AM
05/09/17 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
Can you explain what you mean by sample layers per key? According to Garritan's website, the Lite has the same number of sample layers of detail, as they call it, as the full CFX, 20, but only one microphone pair, instead of six. I thought that was the only difference.

https://www.garritan.com/products/cfx-concert-grand-virtual-piano-lite/cfx-lite-features-benefits/

Edit I'm equating the compact presets from within Garritan CFX full, with the CFX Lite. Maybe that's not the same thing?

The Lite version is not not the same as compact. It uses the close mic samples from the classic perspective, and has both the full and compact versions of those samples:

Lite vs Full


Beethoven, Bach -> Kawai CA-97 -> Garritan CFX Full -> Neumann Klein and Hummel 310s
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2641705
05/09/17 11:50 AM
05/09/17 11:50 AM
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TheodorN Offline
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Then the compact version of the full CFX, must use all the mic perspectives/pairs, or as many as the user chooses, but fewer layers of each perspective. That's probably what CyberGene was talking about.

Reading from the table, which is the same one I linked to, it seems that the Lite version also has a compact version. So there is a Lite version of the Lite version! It must be very lite, or compact.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: TheodorN] #2641712
05/09/17 12:15 PM
05/09/17 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
... Reading from the table, which is the same one I linked to,

whome whoops. Coffee installed this time.

Originally Posted by TheodorN
it seems that the Lite version also has a compact version. So there is a Lite version of the Lite version! It must be very lite, or compact.

From earlier in the thread:
Originally Posted by Tyruke
Well, the sound library of the lite version on my hard-drive takes up 19.2 gigabytes of space. According to the website the full version contains 6 mic perspectives and has a minimum system requirement of 133 gigabytes for a full installation.

The minimum system requirements for the lite version is listed on the website as 22 gigabytes. 22x6=132. They may be giving us some head room on the numbers.

So based on that I believe the lite version is indeed getting the full uncompressed samples of one mic perspective.


Beethoven, Bach -> Kawai CA-97 -> Garritan CFX Full -> Neumann Klein and Hummel 310s
Re: Garritan CFX Lite $59.95 [Re: Fscotte] #2641715
05/09/17 12:27 PM
05/09/17 12:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
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TheodorN Offline
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The difference (between 19.2 GB and 22) can possibly be explained by one source showing the numbers in binary, and the other in decimal. I agree with your conclusions.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
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