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Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
johnjones795 #2637499 04/29/17 12:28 AM
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We can try to evaluate how well a piece of music serves the purpose it was created for. But it's impossible to do that if one does not understand that purpose. When one has a limited view on the purpose of music it's common to end up evaluating all music on one scale. I feel this is the case with JoelW...and of course he just likes to stir things up smile

I tend to evaluate the music by comparing it with it's own kind. How interesting, well made and innovative it is and what kind of reaction it provokes in me. Doing this has also brought out some general ideas of why some pieces "speak" to me more than others regardless of the genre but these are subjective things and does not make the music objectively "better". I cannot really evaluate the music of Einaudi because at present such music does not serve any purpose I have for music.

One thing that might make music objectively "inferior" for me personally is if it is not created for any other purpose than to mimic other things that sold well and with only marketing in mind. It's not a result of a natural creative process. Such music was never meant to last. Such music exists in the "classical" genre as well.

Last edited by outo; 04/29/17 12:29 AM.
Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
johnjones795 #2637546 04/29/17 04:50 AM
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Honestly - for me, Einaudi and the others sounded nice for the first couple of times I heard their music, many years ago. It's beautiful, for what it's worth.

I then expexted to get something different when I would listen to their other pieces - but no, it's just all the same. They just seem to lack imagination.

And the beauty there is, just gets massively overwhelmed by the dull repetitiveness of it. It's all a big cliche.

I would put Satie in the same list. I still do enjoy a gnossienne or two occasionally, when i'm in the right mood, but I couldn't listen to them for a very long time.

I wouldn't say that Einaudi is curd - he's just a sentimental ignoramus.

Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
Tararex #2637565 04/29/17 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tararex
... Bach's inventions are incomplete ideas for expansion into real compositions...



Blasphemy!


A piece a day keeps the debt collector away.
Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
johnjones795 #2637678 04/29/17 01:04 PM
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A few people have mentioned accessibility.... Einaudi is definitely accessible for someone like me who began piano as an adult and doesn't want to play what all the 7 years are playing (and much better). Also, although Einaudi fits in a genre with George Winston, Philip Glass, Michael Nyman, Einaudi's music is much easier to play than those three composers. Yes, there are easier pieces in the traditional piano literature, but somehow those never really appealed to me. The accessibility of Einaudi is one of the things that made it possible for me to continue playing piano even while trying to complete a PhD (non-musical of course), during times when lessons were out of the question, I could still learn new pieces of his on my own. Another thing that I have been able to do thanks to Einaudi is some piano-cello duets, again because his music is accessible while still being compelling (IMO obviously). Contemporary solo piano works like those written by Einaudi meet a need that clearly a lot of piano players and piano listeners have.

I can understand criticizing the idea that Einaudi might be characterized as classical (I agree that that characterization wrong), and I can understand that not everyone finds his music appealing. But what is there to be gained from calling his music crud etc.? If anything, any piano enthusiast should be glad there's someone who sells as much sheet music as he does and encourages people to take up or stick with piano in an era when making your own music is becoming less and less common.

For those interested in learning more about his music, you might also listen to some of his pieces for piano and strings, like the Earth Prelude or the piano/cello pieces in his Cello Collection.


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Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
ShiroKuro #2637687 04/29/17 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
A few people have mentioned accessibility.... Einaudi is definitely accessible for someone like me who began piano as an adult and doesn't want to play what all the 7 years are playing (and much better). Also, although Einaudi fits in a genre with George Winston, Philip Glass, Michael Nyman, Einaudi's music is much easier to play than those three composers. Yes, there are easier pieces in the traditional piano literature, but somehow those never really appealed to me. The accessibility of Einaudi is one of the things that made it possible for me to continue playing piano even while trying to complete a PhD (non-musical of course), during times when lessons were out of the question, I could still learn new pieces of his on my own. Another thing that I have been able to do thanks to Einaudi is some piano-cello duets, again because his music is accessible while still being compelling (IMO obviously). Contemporary solo piano works like those written by Einaudi meet a need that clearly a lot of piano players and piano listeners have.

I can understand criticizing the idea that Einaudi might be characterized as classical (I agree that that characterization wrong), and I can understand that not everyone finds his music appealing. But what is there to be gained from calling his music crud etc.? If anything, any piano enthusiast should be glad there's someone who sells as much sheet music as he does and encourages people to take up or stick with piano in an era when making your own music is becoming less and less common.

For those interested in learning more about his music, you might also listen to some of his pieces for piano and strings, like the Earth Prelude or the piano/cello pieces in his Cello Collection.



Listened to the earth prelude and a few other pieces.

Literally all the same. There's no difference. So extremely predictable. Boring.

Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
johnjones795 #2637708 04/29/17 03:01 PM
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How do you tell the difference between the Irish fiddle tunes?

By their titles.

Old joke, but I think you could substitute your boring composer of choice...

Sam

Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
johnjones795 #2637726 04/29/17 03:39 PM
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In the end, you like what you like, and play what you like. We all like different things.

Its what makes the world go round.


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Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
wr #2637877 04/30/17 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by MarieJ


Wuffski, as no-one has really answered your question yet, here are some suggested links as requested. For the record, Einaudi describes his music as 'ambient classical'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcihcYEOeic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEYayRe4uSs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8MzHqkNBwo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2K7D-uMH2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qvglWAHDak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHUQCx969m8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUFmlZ0_6z8

(Despite my signature below, I also enjoy 'classic classical'... ) smile



Thanks for the links. I'll check them out - I want to get a better idea of what this guy is doing and why it seems to be filling a gap of some kind.



Listening to the last one right now, after listening to about half of them in their entirety and a couple of minutes of each of the others.

Funny, the first thought I had was that if it were 30-40 years ago, I would immediately think "Oh, it's the Windham Hill sound, probably George Winston". Nothing to get bent out of shape about - nice stuff for those who enjoy it, and why would anyone else care?

I did realize, after listening to a few, that the amount of variation was extremely limited. But, so what? It still works in the way intended, I think.

Finally, I think if I listened to Einaudi for maybe a few days, I'd be able to improvise in a style almost indistinguishable from his music, for hours on end. Which makes me think I should try it, just to see if my guess is right, if nothing else.

Oh, yes - does he drive an Audi? If not, Audi should give him one.






Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
johnjones795 #2638023 04/30/17 12:52 PM
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If it comes to relaxation mood music, or whatever you want to term it, I'd say something like this, from a rocker ("classically-trained", like all good rockers wink ) is much more interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKVYEShL2fs

Though I have to say that his 'muzaksation' of actual classical piano music (turning the composers' varied textures into non-stop broken arpeggios - apparently you can't have a moment's silence in pop) doesn't do it for me, but my non-classical friends prefer them to the originals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXUdpYIvY14


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
johnjones795 #2638084 04/30/17 01:58 PM
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Quote
Sung By Rick Wakerman


I didn't hear any singing?? confused


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Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
Vid #2638096 04/30/17 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Vid
Quote
Sung By Rick Wakerman


I didn't hear any singing?? confused

Rumor has it that Rickie was going to sing it....then he heard this wink :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkVpWgIudBg

....and decided it was too awful for him to be able to top it.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
Wuffski #2638194 04/30/17 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Wuffski
Could anybody recommend me what pieces of him I should listen to in order to learn best about him? This is a serious question, hoping to receive some link to a really representative youtube (or alike) recording of his works.
Thank you for all the examples having been recommended to listen to! I already commented a first impression:
Originally Posted by Wuffski
Hmmmm. In the time which we usually refer to when speaking about Classical music, and shortly after in the Romantic period, so to say throughout the 19th century, this would simply have been called an "Etude", the French word, for "study", and here on the beginner forum it might be best understood as "a piece for practicing appregiated chords".

I meanwhile found that some of the music originally comes with lyrics, this is true at least for Nuvole Bianche, which is published on Ludovico Einaudi's Youtube Channel.

The lyrics change my first impression on the composer completely! At least the Nuvole Bianche got so much soul! Next time listening to a piano solo version of it lets me hear and feel it differently - I of course now hear much more than appregiated chords only. My first impression was misled as if I would have judged a Lied (engl. "song") from Schubert without respecting there the base forming lyrics. "Der Wanderer" (D.493) would not have become so famous by its piano voice only, neither. I am not about to compare Schubert's and Einaudi's works and fame, but simply emphasize by this example the importance of the lyrics in this particular piece of Einaudi.

Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
Rowy van Hest #2638243 04/30/17 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowy-van-Hest
Originally Posted by Tararex
... Bach's inventions are incomplete ideas for expansion into real compositions...



Blasphemy!


It's not my idea. I've read dissertations advancing the premise. Bach supposedly created his inventions while teaching compositional idea development.

I love listening to the inventions and can play a few - but at my level the concentration required is still intense. Playing around with Einaudi et al. pieces give my Bach/Chopin/Beethoven brain trauma time to heal.

Einaudi, to my ear and eye, is Classical stripped down to the "Invention for beginners" level. I'm intrigued how he pulls simple ideas into a piece of pleasant (albeit repetitive) music.

Ambient repeats and doesn't have highs/lows as it musically represents nice-but-mundane metaphoric sonority of waves, sunsets, snowstorms, rain, etc. (I'm guessing) Pink noise via arpeggiation.


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Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
Tararex #2638352 05/01/17 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tararex
Originally Posted by Rowy-van-Hest
Originally Posted by Tararex
... Bach's inventions are incomplete ideas for expansion into real compositions...



Blasphemy!


It's not my idea. I've read dissertations advancing the premise. Bach supposedly created his inventions while teaching compositional idea development.

I love listening to the inventions and can play a few - but at my level the concentration required is still intense. Playing around with Einaudi et al. pieces give my Bach/Chopin/Beethoven brain trauma time to heal.

Einaudi, to my ear and eye, is Classical stripped down to the "Invention for beginners" level. I'm intrigued how he pulls simple ideas into a piece of pleasant (albeit repetitive) music.

Ambient repeats and doesn't have highs/lows as it musically represents nice-but-mundane metaphoric sonority of waves, sunsets, snowstorms, rain, etc. (I'm guessing) Pink noise via arpeggiation.


>Bach supposedly created his inventions while teaching compositional idea development...

That is not the same as 'Bach's inventions are incomplete ideas for expansion into real compositions'. But it isn't that important. We'll never really know Bach's intentions.

>Einaudi, to my ear and eye, is Classical stripped down to the "Invention for beginners" level...

The level is low, that is for sure. It is at the level of a Richard Clayderman. Relaxing, but boring, although the fans of 'New Age' music will like it.

But if you are in need of some rest, healing your brain trauma, this music should do the trick.

I just noticed that Einaudi and I were born in the same year. He must have studied music in the same period as I did. It is possible that he got fed up with avant-gardism, like I did, but his trauma is probably worse than mine. Or he just wanted to earn some money.

Last edited by Rowy-van-Hest; 05/01/17 07:03 AM.

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Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
Rowy van Hest #2638983 05/02/17 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowy-van-Hest

>The level is low, that is for sure. It is at the level of a Richard Clayderman. Relaxing, but boring, although the fans of 'New Age' music will like it.


I don't know. It seems Ambient abides by the classical rules (harmonic consonance, modal drone, ostinato) to create a new style while New Age is more of a Modern era refit of older music (simplify, add lots of smashed notes and runs, top off with a dissonance or two). New age makes me cringe. Ambient, while a simplistic style, doesn't. On the other hand I know someone that loves Clayderman stylings who says Ambient gives her the heebie-jeebies.

One other thing about Einaudi/Ambient sheet music: It is excellent for use when practicing dynamics/pedaling. Ambient dynamic changes are often "by the phrase" or even within a phrase. The tempos are slow enough to really think about what is being done with the keys and pedals.

Hey, I love popcorn. I respect popcorn. I'm not eating popcorn every day but I'm happy it's readily available. I feel the same about Einaudi.


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Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
Tararex #2639009 05/02/17 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tararex
[Hey, I love popcorn. I respect popcorn. I'm not eating popcorn every day but I'm happy it's readily available. I feel the same about Einaudi.

Everything in moderation, including moderation thumb.


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Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
Tararex #2639026 05/02/17 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tararex
Originally Posted by Rowy-van-Hest

>The level is low, that is for sure. It is at the level of a Richard Clayderman. Relaxing, but boring, although the fans of 'New Age' music will like it.


I don't know. It seems Ambient abides by the classical rules (harmonic consonance, modal drone, ostinato) to create a new style while New Age is more of a Modern era refit of older music (simplify, add lots of smashed notes and runs, top off with a dissonance or two). New age makes me cringe. Ambient, while a simplistic style, doesn't. On the other hand I know someone that loves Clayderman stylings who says Ambient gives her the heebie-jeebies.

One other thing about Einaudi/Ambient sheet music: It is excellent for use when practicing dynamics/pedaling. Ambient dynamic changes are often "by the phrase" or even within a phrase. The tempos are slow enough to really think about what is being done with the keys and pedals.

Hey, I love popcorn. I respect popcorn. I'm not eating popcorn every day but I'm happy it's readily available. I feel the same about Einaudi.


I don't think the definitions of New Age and ambient are really mutually exclusive (if there are definitions of them at all). To me, based just on observing how the terms have been used over the last few decades or so, I'd say that ambient is often included under the general heading of New Age. Wikipedia has a listing of New Age musicians that includes Einaudi, for example.

But it also seems to me that "New Age" as a term may be going out of fashion, even though the music is still popular. It often just seemed like a term used by brick-and-mortar record stores as a convenience for a lot of music they didn't know how to otherwise categorize. It is certainly true that some musicians hated getting that label.

I know I always felt vaguely guilty for looking through the New Age bin, back when we had real stores, because it had a reputation for vacuousness, regardless of what you actually found there. I know that a favorite musician of mine, Jon Hassell, got stuck there even though I never thought of his stuff as being New Age. But somebody did.

Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
wr #2639271 05/03/17 10:31 AM
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Hi, wr! Your experience with "New Age" music is the same as mine -- that term seemed to evolve in the late 70s- early 80s, and seemed then to be a West Coast "thing", particularly California. And from what I've heard of Einaudi here, I would put him in the same boat, although he reminds me more of Yanni, whose efforts were more orchestrally based. Bluntly put, I don't hear "Classical", or "Ambient Classical" -- the intention of the "New Age" practitioners seem to me to be virtually hostile to the Classical aficionados, rather than an extension of them. So, to answer the question in the post, I'd have to pose another question: "Which piano community?" He's very well respected in the "New Age" community, and that community is quite large, and by now well established.

Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
johnjones795 #2639473 05/03/17 08:27 PM
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I recently had a video I needed some music for (it was a bc ski vid using a drone). I tried a bunch of my stuff, classical, Glass and others and nothing was working. So I looked elsewhere and came upon Einaudi's "Mountain" which was perfect. It had a droning single note throughout almost the whole work and a very simple melody and just seemed to fit perfect. So I put it to the video, put it up on youtube and.... it wasn't allowed almost anywhere because of copyright infringement. I mean...it wouldn't play. So I bagged it. But I also thought, what the hey I'll buy the sheet music and record it myself. This is the second or third time I've gotten some Einaudi music and every time I have the worst time actually finishing it and recording it.m Every time I get too bored to finish. Which is funny because I do actually like listening to some Einaudi. There have been some really great recordings done over on the Beginner forum recital. So I'm wondering why I get so bored trying to play it? I love playing Glass and can play it all day and that's pretty repetitive stuff. The only real thing I can think of is that there is just no real depth to Einaudi. It's kind of fluffy. Anyway... I'm determined to finish and record Mountain, depth be damned!!

Re: How respected is Ludovico Einaudi in the piano community?
Peyton #2639513 05/04/17 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Peyton
Every time I get too bored to finish.


It's my experience the boredom is always a product of the mind of the person who is bored, not of outside stuff. Once I figured that out and started to take the responsibility for being bored if it happened, I soon realized I didn't have to ever be bored again. YMMV


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